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Russia-Ukraine War

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Comments

  • #552
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,209 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193173#Comment_122193173

    » Please kindly point me to where I called this a "mutual war between NATO and Russia" and where did I stated that "Ukraine should reward it's invader with land"?

    I didn't write that. You really need to read what's being written, I suggest reading it again.

    You are attempting to frame this as a mutual or "spat" war or "resources" war, so you can project this disengenuous anti-war stance to the whole thing. That "both sides" need to stop.

    Russia is invading Ukraine, the Ukrainians are defending themselves. Russia has no right or reason to invade. Ukraine has every right to defend itself. There's only one instigator. You're just lazily blaming both, which is obscene.

    Ukraine has the option of rewarding Putin's invasion with land, but they've learnt by bitter lesson, and we've learnt by bitter lesson, that appeasing Putin does nothing but encourage him. it creates more war.

    The only thing Putin responds to is strength. So if Ukraine do go to the table, if it's even available, if it's even legitimate, they can only do so from a position of strength, or else there will be only more war, more invasion. By Russia.

    Did Putin stop with Crimea? Did he stop with Donbas and Luhansk? If someone supports appeasing Putin, they support more war.

    Yet here you are indirectly accusing Ukrainians and people who support Ukraine of being war-mongers. A neutral nation that was attacked. The irony and BS of that.



  • #553
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193453#Comment_122193453

    Right. Colorful examples and the truth, another attempt to categorize people again.

    I can assure you that if something like that happens I would act and I would not just stay there with phone in the hand taking video and talking about it.

    War is different and complex scenario which cant be downgraded or simplified with this bully example. If you feel so strongly about it you can go and join the cause. I know people who did and I listened to what they have to say afterwards. I would not repeat it here because none of you would understand. That is all I say about it and I still call for war, any war to end. The sooner it happens the better it will be.



  • #554
    zerosquared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193454#Comment_122193454

    2014 is 22 years after the collapse of USSR and both Russian and Ukrainian independence

    My example not only stands but blows and T90 suborbital launched turret hole in your silly “civil war” thesis

    This is a colonial war of expansion in a classic imperial Russian fashion with a sprinkling of fascism borrowed directly from the third Reich and the worst aspects of communist propaganda and imagery thrown in



  • #555
    8mv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭8mv


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193556#Comment_122193556

    We can all agree that the war should end and the sooner the better. You certainly give the impression that you would prefer it to end with Ukraine capitulating to Russian agression - you have posted nothing that would suggest the opposite…



  • #556
    scottser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭scottser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193620#Comment_122193620

    The only way it ends is with Russia's defeat. Europe is comitted to a Ukraine victory, so you might as well suck it up and pick a side.



  • #557
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,338 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193620#Comment_122193620

    I pointed out an example of where "if you are not for, you are against" and you have no credible response, just an attempt at shifting the goalposts.

    War is different and complex. Why? Nope - not necessarily. This is argument by assertion, without foundation.

    "If you feel so strongly about it go and join the cause". A total cop out answer, by that standard, why don't you? You seem to feel strongly on the subject too. Why don't you go there, position yourself in no man's land and plead for peace? What do you think your life expectancy will be? Do you think "any of them" would "understand"? So you don't even live up to your own "advice". Self discrediting isn't it? Why are you calling for war to end here, when none of us on this thread are doing the fighting?

    Another "attempt to categorize people"? Then, what's "none of you would understand"? Again, easy to write lines like that in posts to try to score points, easy to forget to follow them yourself. Go back and re-read your own recent posts, and see how many times you categorized people.

    I have outlined the consequences of your position, and it is not peace, it is rewarding aggressors and rewarding warfare. Again, you had no credible response. Calling for a war to end on that basis is in reality just perpetuating the reasons for it, it is not a serious basis for peace, and it is not peace by any real definition.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #558
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193658#Comment_122193658

    I dont think so. Remember when Russians were quite deep in Ukraine and as soon as negotiation started in Turkey whey withdrew? There was no single attempt at negotiating afterwards even recent proposed peace conference invited everyone but them. You cant negotiate end of war without warring parties present. While it was 2 regions then now there are 4 occupied and that certainly make negotiation for Ukraine harder.



  • #559
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193678#Comment_122193678

    No, thank you. I am not sucking anything up and I am not picking side. I do not care which side win or lose as long as killing stop.



  • #560
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,338 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    Implicitly, you have picked a side. Your position would result in rewarding the aggressor. Your position would result in rewarding Russia for atrocities such as Bucha. By refusing to engage with what Russia is actually doing in Ukraine, by refusing to recognise that Ukraine has the right to defend itself against such aggression, that is a pro-Russian position.

    You deny Ukraine the right to defend itself against Russian aggression, invasion and atrocity. That is not a position of peace. That is a charter for war mongering.

    And any stop to the killing would only be temporary, because you will have rewarded those culpable for killings. We have seen how Russia signs treaties, re-arms and attacks again.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #561
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,209 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    A reminder of what "peace" looks like on occupied Ukraine.

    image.png
    image.png
    image.png



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  • #562
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Oh well, one has to pick their wars right?

    I will visit again in few months and we will be at gamechanger 30 and talking about another 1 or 2 occupied oblasts as it seems it is heading in that direction anyway. I wish it was different but what can I do?



  • #563
    Virgil°
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193774#Comment_122193774

    we will be at gamechanger 30 and talking about another 1 or 2 occupied oblasts as it seems it is heading in that direction anyway

    You could at least attempt to hide your arousal at the thought of it happening? Anyway the mask has completely slipped. You are pro Russian. End of story. No further dialogue needed.

    I wish it was different but what can I do?

    1. No you don't
    2. Donate to a Ukraine fund like United24 or The69thSniffingBrigade. Of course, you won't do this because that would upset your Russian mates.



  • #564
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    The fact you won't comment on if Russia are committing genocide is very much so picking a side...



  • #565
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,209 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193774#Comment_122193774

    We all wish it was different.

    No one wants this invasion. We all want it to end. Putin isn't just attacking Ukraine, he's attacking Europe, we're a part of that.

    It's unreal to come across individuals who don't care how it ends, meaning they don't care who prevails. Reinforced by snide comments, as if there's something wrong with expressing hope or support in Ukraine prevailing.

    If Putin prevails, there'll only be more war. As a supposed "anti-war" person you may need to take some time to think about that.



  • #566
    saabsaab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193556#Comment_122193556

    Well 'peace at any cost' i.e. the sooner the better and not condemning Russian agression is plainly pro-Russian. How could it be taken otherwise?



  • #567
    Field east
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭Field east


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193238#Comment_122193238

    it must be the only war ever in the history of all wars - and go back as far as you want to- where UKr is the clear victim with ‘ both hands tied BEHIND its’s back’ and ‘ one leg tied up behind it’s back’. So this means that it cannot kick out with the free leg because if it does it will FALL. Imagine not being allowed to attack/ neutralise locations in Russia that is firing missiles at you with arnaments provided from outside sources. Putins bluff has been called re going nuclear. It is now clear that he is concentrating exclusively on using large numbers of soldiers - to overwhelm the smaller UKr numbers- along with bombing everything in sight



  • #568
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193316#Comment_122193316

    And there we have it. Smoke and mirrors, pretending to hold oneself out as a pacifist, when really its "I genuinely do not care how it ends". I'm not going to bother engaging with you on the issue anymore as you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the reality of war, pathetically passing it off as "elaborate conclusions", and I'm just going to call your posts out for what they are - disingenuous. Stating that you just want peace, straight out saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a war hawk, yet refusing to accept that it can only come about one of two ways - Ukrainian capitulation or Russian withdrawal.

    That's me done with the 'sound of one hand clapping' discussion, and another poster to add to the ignore list.



  • #569
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭paul71


    It is clear that the week or two of the absence of this thread, caused very serious withdrawal symptoms resulting in stream of nonsense from a particularly badly effected Russian propaganda victim.



  • #570
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,725 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    Ah, so you want Russia to head back across the border. Took a hell of a lot of posts by umpteen people to get that out of you.



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  • #571
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,038 ✭✭✭circadian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193416#Comment_122193416

    Show me where I rejected the claim.



  • #572
    scottser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭scottser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    Ok so. You might understand then that your position is probably not one that resonates with the majority of Ukranians, for whom this is an existential battle. Nor indeed with Russians who will keep obediently lining up for the meat grinder on the say so of their dictator. You do realise that in Russia, your calls to end the war immediately would likely land you in prison and then the front line?



  • #573
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193774#Comment_122193774

    Translation, not willing to answer some pretty reasonable questions so will come back in a week or two and rinse and repeat.



  • #574
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,898 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193262#Comment_122193262

    Eh, no - I got that hypothetical situation out of your head, or more specifically your post #504:

    This is war over resources it was clear from the start when 2 of the most rich counties in Ukraine tried to jump ship and Ukraine did not want them to leave. Russians happily supported that move. Result of that conflict at this moment is that Ukraine lost another 2 counties and if you know anything about Ukraine you would know that first 2 lost territories are the most valuable in terms of resources and other 2 are where most of the grains are produced.

    Sure, there was vigorous debate in the Donbas region as to whether or not they should remain part of Ukraine, but they did not jump ship nor was there any movement to join Russia until that Russian "support" arrived in the form of paramilitary agitators with their own (or rather Putin's) agenda.

    As my son's Ukrainian flat mate said several years ago, the situation in the Donbas was like Northern Ireland on steroids, but it could have been handled within Ukraine through conventional heated negotiations - exactly like we see and have seen in respect of Catalonia and the Basque region … and Northern Ireland.

    But no, Putin decided that he was going to impose his own "solution" on someone else's problem, sent his little green men into Crimea and the Donbass, and as we're all too well aware now, then decided to embark on his "Special Military Operation" because … reasons. And all your posts indicate that you're quite happy with that, because some people in Donetsk and Luhansk expressed their discontent with the government in Kyiv ten years ago.



  • #575
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,982 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193400#Comment_122193400

    It's the stuff like comparing conquest and stealing land and resouces to a business transaction (like McDonalds growing by m&a apparently), trying to spin it like Russia's leadership are not acting abnormally here, that also makes you sound pro Russia.

    I just know you would not be talking about this so glibly if "Uncle Sam" (you don't like them!) were acting the global pirate, sending US military out after booty and seeking to add a new state to the Union. You'd be laying into them on here (rightly so).

    Putting blame on Ukraine/Ukrainians for choosing to stand and fight vs accepting a "hostile takeover", also blaming others for supporting them with weapons, saying you don't care what happens, posting negativity/cynicism/criticism of Ukraine and its allies, claiming that once war ends (no matter how it happens) it is for the best as there will be "peace" (despite evidence to the contrary), all of it seems pro Russia. If it walks like a duck etc.

    You are also normalising revanchism/irredentism in some posts, going on about idea of Romania annexing Moldova + other disputes around Europe (Catelonian independence etc). It seems to be to try and make it apppear as if Russia isn't really acting out of the ordinary, and this kind of thing is rife all over Europe, par for the course. Not true.

    Discussing border/sovereignty/territorial changes you wish to see happen in future, or even working for them entirely peacefully and through political means is one thing. Countries' leaders making claims to other people's lands, issuing threats against them if they don't acquiesece and then using acts of terrorism or warfare to redraw borders the way they want them to be is quite another and it is not normal. It is sick behaviour we'd all hoped was gone from Europe in 21C.



  • #576
    StevenToast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Russia and Israel…the new axis of evil.

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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  • #577
    zerosquared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193982#Comment_122193982

    Yours is a very good description in light of latest Bild article

    https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1795456527920169139



  • #578
    scottser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭scottser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194318#Comment_122194318

    They're not really an axis, more like they are competing with each other to be the biggest, most complete and utter jockstains imagineable.



  • #579
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    I think wanting peace and soon is admirable, I have little time for those who would put geopolitics first or enjoy the fighting, but the sad fact is that the killing will only stop once the Ukraine pushes Russia completely out of its territory. We already know from the likes of Chechnya what a Russian "peace" looks like and it's not pleasant for the people who have to suffer under it. The Ukraine must win and we must support them for as long as they wish.



  • #580
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193705#Comment_122193705

     Remember when Russians were quite deep in Ukraine and as soon as negotiation started in Turkey whey withdrew?

    Between this and your invented claim that two regions "tried to jump ship", the problem might just be that your memory isn't very good.

    Russia withdrew because their advance stalled and was incredibly exposed. The talks collapsed when it became clear Russia's demands were absurdly unacceptable and they weren't taking it seriously and the massacre in Bucha was found. The "separatist movement" in the Donbas both had no formal authority (the last vote in the region was pro independence after all) and was a Russian invasion in disguise from the get go anyway.



  • #581
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Not unexpected really. Putin has Georgia by the b*lls where he took pretty much 20% of it or more back in 2008. Georgia dont really have a military to size up against RA and shur a huge amount of Russians fled into Georgia during early stages of the "Special Operation". Putin and FSB are fully behind the forceable arm twisting of the Georgian parliament on this. Expect further Russian incursion into Georgia similar to Ukraine with the Little Green Men thing. Georgia is now sucked into the federation pretty much. Its a pity really because I think at the start georgian dream were very pro EU and NATO? So something happened recently and all I can think of is Putin/FSB infiltration and threats

    https://twitter.com/CivilGe/status/1795470251607445763

    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/28/georgia-eu-hopes-fade-as-parliament-set-to-approve-russian-law-on-foreign-agents



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  • #582
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,746 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like Georgia is about to become a Russian proxy / puppet State

    https://twitter.com/Helenkhosh/status/1795472217737760975

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #583
    zv2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭zv2


    A note on Donbas independence re. the recent conversation (reposted for those who missed first time)-

    https://twitter.com/LvivNightingale/status/1657421382794313731

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • #584
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194479#Comment_122194479

    So Georgia on its way to becoming Belarus V2.0



  • #585
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The telling moment for Georgia isn't now - the bill was always going to pass. The telling moment is the upcoming elections.



  • #586
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193705#Comment_122193705

    Nope. They withdrew because in their hubris thinking it would be over quickly in the face of Russia Unleashed, their mighty military machine's 40k plus flying column forgot about simple things like petrol and food. And don't even go down the strewn with Kremlin bullshít road of Johnson's telling Ukraine to fight on. Those Turkey talks went on for weeks after he left. At the time Russia claimed it was a tactical feint, but you've forgotten that. Oh and they also "withdrew" from Forever Russian™ Kharkiv and Kherson, AKA legged it in the face of mismanagement and general fcukups, long after any negotiations.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #587
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194545#Comment_122194545

    Parliamentary elections are scheduled to be held in Georgia on 26 October 2024.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Georgian_parliamentary_election

    Id say the Russian election interference in this election will be off the scale ..



  • #588
    rogber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192478#Comment_122192478

    Not really but if that's what you choose to read into it feel free



  • #589
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194566#Comment_122194566

    And with respect to the Georgian Election 26 Oct 2024 .. this take:

    https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1795480185036280279



  • #590
    victor8600
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭victor8600


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194479#Comment_122194479

    Yes, this is suspicious and quite strange that most members of Georgian parliament voted for this undemocratic law, disregarding popular protests. How are they going to explain this decision to their voters in the next election?



  • #591
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Very very nice touch indeed ..

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1795484365599736135



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  • #592
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194318#Comment_122194318
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/essence-is-the-same-ukraines-zelenskyy-likens-hamas-to-russia

    Zelensky knows that the cause of Israel and Ukraine are one that the cause of Russia, Iran and Palestine are one.

    Neither side really hides that, though some in the West pretend otherwise, for many reasons.



  • #593
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194715#Comment_122194715

    The cause of Palestine and the cause of Hamas are directly linked however.

    You can support Palestine and the Palestinian people, but not support Hamas.



  • #594
    rogber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭rogber


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194715#Comment_122194715

    He is talking about Hamas, not the Palestinians as a whole. Though I realise you are all too happy to draw no distinction.

    His comments were also made on October 9. I expect he might take a more balanced view now.

    Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

    The Israeli state in its current form is a state terrorist.

    A bit like Stalin versus Hitler: there doesn't have to be a good guy in a war, sometimes both are awful.



  • #595
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,142 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Remember when Russian heli's and jet's were dropping out of the sky over Belgorod. I knew it was patriot's based off the videos of the missile's hitting them.

    It's nothing short of disgraceful Russia and Germany giving them an earful. No surprise they actually ran out of air defence missiles after it was threatened.

    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795449109391782116?t=qk3ODScD3UwlhLzMIaHQEg&s=19



  • #596
    aidanodr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194803#Comment_122194803

    This ( @RoyalCelt Before posting comment with X/Twitter link, change the x in the x dot com part of the link to TWITTER, I think its an issue here at boards that x dot com links dont open / display )

    https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795449109391782116?t=qk3ODScD3UwlhLzMIaHQEg&s=19



  • #597
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,909 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193324#Comment_122193324

    I think a clear education for people would be the venn diagram for COVID deniers and russian tankies.

    Nothing you have posted indicates a deep insight into what is happening in Ukraine. Further emphasised by you not caring about what happens.



  • #598
    zv2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭zv2


    Belgorod

    https://twitter.com/UaCoins/status/1795498828977635678

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • #599
    vswr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭vswr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193727#Comment_122193727

    Quickest route for that is for Russia to leave Ukraine to pre-2014 boarders.

    It's actually that simple.



  • #600
    saabsaab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I see France is sending their foreign legion troops to Ukraine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3bllPAYL9U

    Probably there for a while now. Others will follow soon.



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  • #601
    vswr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭vswr


    @patnor1011 is it Kharkiv or Kharkov?



This discussion has been closed.
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