Russia-Ukraine War

briany

@selectamatic

Firstly I can't see Russia ever getting passed the Donbass.

Secondly I can't see a theoretical Trump in charge ever again but even if he was there's no way America would be abandoning Europe to face some reincarnated USSR no matter how isolationist the MAGA crowd wanted to be.

On the first point, yes, it's hard to see Russia getting out of this region unless there is a major collapse in Ukrainian resolve or Russia discover some new devastating tactic short of nukes.

On the second point, no, because it isn't that MAGA want to be isolationist. I believe that to be a misconception. It's just that MAGA isn't interested in protecting western democracies, so it isn't going to fight to that end. But MAGA would absolutely send out armies to fight wars that would promote its new vision. For example, it's hard to see the like of Tucker Carlson objecting if Trump were to suggest the deployment of American military assets to the border regions of Mexico in order to destroy the cartels and deter migrants, even if that were to become another Afghanistan.

And a second Trump government would be very much unlike the first. He'd have a unified MAGA team behind him this time, not halfway principled people like John Bolton who'd tell him how mad his latest brainwave was. The only thing that could stop him would be either a Democrat house or senate, maybe, but even that depends on how far his whole 'dictator on day one' remark could actually go.

josip

The longer this war goes on, the less it looks like Western ineptitude to me and the more it looks like the Russian frog is being boiled.

zerosquared

Victory is on the horizon

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205993#Comment_122205993

And unfortunately thousands of dead Ukrainians are the result of that strategy as well as untold destruction.

SoapMcTavish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206235#Comment_122206235

My god … your posts are so full of fake concern for Ukraine. Stop hiding, and say what you really want to say … about ruZZia maybe ?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206235#Comment_122206235

Don’t worry, Russia will pay for each of those deaths eventually.

swiwi_

Kremlin attacks Trump verdict as 'elimination of political rivals'

The Kremlin told reporters on Friday that Donald Trump’s guilty verdict was proof that all legal and illegal means were being used in the United States to get rid of political rivals”, Reuters is reporting.

“The fact that a de-facto elimination of political rivals by all possible legal and illegal means is going on there is obvious,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

From the Guardian. Russia couldn’t recognise irony even if it were Ukraine’s main weapon of war…

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206293#Comment_122206293

How do you figure that out? If you actually read back on my posts (which you obviously haven't) you'll see i am calling for Ukraine to be given what they need to attack Russia within it's own borders and push them out of their country as quickly as possible. How is calling for more weaponry for Ukraine "fake concern". Really bizarre train of thought but i'm sure you have the evidence to back it up, right?

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206305#Comment_122206305

Hopefully. I would like to see more urgency though from the west Europe in particular where the response has been pathetic is all honesty.

zerosquared

Two rail ferries on list near Kerch

Looks like someone building up for the big event

https://twitter.com/AndrewPerpetua/status/1796373422714528187

TheValeyard

Let the UAF use this map

Brussels Sprout

I was researching some of the Independent candidates in Ireland South for the upcoming European elections. As expected they mostly appear to be either on the far-right or far-left. I was pleasantly surprised by one though, Christoper Doyle from Wexford. He's a retired engineer and I automatically assumed he was going to be another far-right candidate. Not so. The independent interviewed him last week. Here's what he had to say about Ukraine:

One of Christopher’s core aims is to do “whatever is necessary to fully reinstate Ukraine and protect the European Union”, and he fears the ongoing war has the potential to “threaten peace like no other time in history since WWII”.“The war in Ukraine has the capacity to expand and could very well lead to war on the European mainland in the lifetime of the next European Parliament,” he says.Should the conflict lead to the annexation of Ukraine, Christopher says the knock-on effect across Europe will be incalculable.“There’s four million Ukrainians outside of the country at the moment, which leaves 34 million in it, if Ukraine falls the 34 million people living there are not going to be too interested in staying under a Russian regime, and you have to ask yourself, ‘where are those people thinking of going?’“We have about 100,000 Ukrainian people here at the moment, if you scale that up and do the math it becomes big numbers, that's not possible, it’s not feasible, it’s on a scale we cannot comprehend. And that’s just one consequence of things going badly in Ukraine. If it goes badly in Ukraine it’s very bad for Europe on many, many levels. I’d be hugely concerned about that.”

source

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206552#Comment_122206552

That's technically correct. The US left it nice and vague 'Near Kharkiv'.

How does this all affect air defense, I assume Ukraine are now free to shoot down fighters approaching their border. Another question would be where does this leave the F16's when they enter service?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206293#Comment_122206293

He's not wrong. We are all acknowledging that the West's support for Ukraine has been... in drips and spurts. We eventually get to the same endstate anyway, but it costs more Ukrainian lives than it would have had the West done the job right from the very beginning.

Stop looking so hard for pro Russian posters that you find them where they are not.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206631#Comment_122206631

All this hesitation is making Putin feel entitled. He is now trying to dictate how Ukraine should fight back and threatening nukes. Every time Putin makes threats, the west should increase support.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207083#Comment_122207083

Iv'e given in with posters like that tbh. They are actually attacking people like me who are arguing that Ukraine should be given anything it needs to win this war. It seems like if you critic the wests response on here you are a putinbot it's utterly mad.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206313#Comment_122206313

Hold on there a minute now……When the Russians are talking about getting rid of political rivals by all possible means, legal and Illegal (pay particular attention to the "Illegal" bit…) you have to take notice, I mean, they wrote the bloody manual!!!But they are incredibly modest about their achievements in this field.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207083#Comment_122207083

If there's one thing we've learned from this thread it's that there's good reason to be suspicious of new posters who constantly call for 'negotiations' so that this 'awful war' can stop and the 'needless loss of Ukrainian lives'. Some of them are better at it than others and are able to bait a few of the more pro-Ukrainian posters into over reacting and get a thread band. Job done.

I agree with your first paragraph apart from the endstate being the same. If Russia had been defeated rapidly in the first 12 months when it was disorganised, it would have been in a much better economic state than it will be by the time it is eventually defeated. I am of the opinion that some of the decision makers do not necessarily see it as a bad thing if the war drags on longer than it has to, and Russia is in an even worse position economically. Even if this comes at the cost of more Ukrainian lives. I don't think the real war any more is a military one on the territory of Ukraine. I think it is now an economic one and Russia is a pawn at the mercy of the West and China who perhaps still have to decide how comprehensively Russia is to be destroyed economically.

China will be calculating purely in economic terms since it is geopolitically on Russia's side. The West may also be factoring in whether an economically neutered Russia will be less of a pain in the hole to the West than it has been for the past 2 decades. Russia has been an asrehole globally for the past 2 decades. Not the only one, but that's a discussion for another thread. Cyber attacks, assassinations, funding of far-right and left, interference in democratic elections and referendums, creating refugee crises to destabilise Europe among other shenanigans. If Russia had to spend its time and energy quelling internal conflicts between restless republics, it would have less time to create them abroad.

The nuclear threat is overblown. The codes are centrally controlled from Moscow, so whoever emerges strongest there will control that and only them. The same way Russia inherited them from the USSR.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203991#Comment_122203991

Thats not exactly rocket science though, is it TP? But the real question is what can be done to change it? The US knows it very well also, but for whatever reason or US internal dynamics that are currently active, Ukraine are only being drip fed, but stating the obvious will not hurry things up, (unfortunately)

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207742#Comment_122207742

The US do not want Russia to collapse so they are trying to defeat them in a controlled way. This is very difficult so it is expected the support will be turned off and back on repeatedly. I

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207742#Comment_122207742

As others have said and i agree with the US is hoping to boil the Russian frog. It may work or it may not but undoubtedly thousands more Ukrainians will die either way because of it. Not giving them what they need is a stain on our collective and makes a farce of NATO.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207742#Comment_122207742

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the drip feed of US aid has been useful for Ukraine too.

Becauss of the seemingly limited amount of western weapons and the unwillingness to commit in Feb 2022, Russia half arsed the invasion and got their whole arse handed back to them.

The Ukrianian counteroffensive was neither as bloody nor as one sided as it could have been, and Ukraine has the excuse of not being given sufficient materiel rather than having to make morale reducing admissions.

Up until very recently, the no use of western weapons in Russia hasnt really hindered the Ukrainian defence. It became an issue because of Kharkov and has ended badly for Russia. They will be circumspect about opening new fronts, and Ukraine will hopefully exploit the short term change in policy.

Overall, despite Kremlin rhetoric, the fact that NATO isnt involved does impose restraint on Russia not using nukes etc.

There was undeniably an unexpected delay between Q4 2023 and Q2 2024 on the aid package getting through congress, but overall the escalation management has not been entirely due to western intransigence

zv2

Seagal joins the Muppetsky show

https://twitter.com/CRRJA5/status/1796258144667963562

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207907#Comment_122207907

the comments on the that tweet are insane

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207928#Comment_122207928

Not really. There's full time bot factories at this sort of thing in St.Petersburg, Moscow.

Handle names depending on who they want to represent could be HamburgerMcBurgerface or PaddyMcGuinnessface.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206305#Comment_122206305

Nothing can ever replace all the dead innocent people and the survivors who suffered trauma that will take generations to overcome. The war is a massive crime but also a great tragedy and not even total victory can compensate for the human toll

jmreire

That will help stop them taking things that are not theirs Serves then right!!!

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122208015#Comment_122208015

you give the impression that there were some wars were confined to killing/maiming soldiers only. Please name a few ? Yes there has been / is and will be a lot of suffering on both sides - re deaths , injuries and MIA which is a’PITY’ . SO, IF YOU KNOW WHO STARTED IT AND IF YOU HAVE ANY INFLUENCE WITH HIM , WELL PLEADE WITH HIM TO LAY DOWN HIS ARMS AND GO HOME.
If it is Zelensky you have influence with I think that you might have a BIG DIFFICULTY in getting Russia to down arms and go home. But if it is Putin you have some influence with and he downs arms and goes home you should have no problem with UKr downing arms and going——— . Wait now , sure they are already home

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207928#Comment_122207928

Yes, I noticed. Some are against him though.

zv2

Posthumous letter from Ukrainian medic- https://united24media.com/latest-news/a-posthumous-letter-from-25-year-old-ukrainian-paramedic-iryna-tsybukh-killed-by-russia-published-by-her-brother-539

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207965#Comment_122207965

wallacemick and ClareDalyMEP.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207928#Comment_122207928

Sure, they are! Putin's $1,5 billion investment in propaganda at work! The web is saturated with pro-Russian, anti-west, Ukraine, US, UK etc. They are massively trying to influence the whole world in different ways, sowing discord, creating splits etc.

jmreire

They are just to provide Balance…most of these comments are coming from the one source Russian bot farm.

TheValeyard

Not good

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1796817889556660399

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206313#Comment_122206313

….

ToweringPerformance

Zelensky begging for more air defence equipment over 2 years since the war started is ridiculous. Pathetic from the west.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0601/1452513-ukraine-energy-facilitie/

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209392#Comment_122209392

There'll be a film series made yet of how Putin becoming leader of Russia meant the third Reich lived and thrived in the cuckoos nest.

The man was a handler ffs for a neo nazi leader in western germany. He probably coached the lad on how to be more Nazi. It's too kind to say Putin is obsessed with history. The man is obsessed with Nazism and how to cleverly fool the people of Russia into becoming Nazi with their own subtle twists.

eoinbn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209667#Comment_122209667

Like everything else it will arrive too late. The west is too busy selling their air defenses systems to oil rich dictators. Next winter, when the Ukrainians are freezing to death the west will start to take action...

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209667#Comment_122209667

Zelensky isn't "begging" he's asking for assistance on behalf of his country. Ukraine has gotten a lot of air defence in fairness and more is coming. Western democracies are slow to mobilize but that's a small price to pay than the alternative of autocratic regimes like Russia who can invade on a whim.

Your anti Western and anti Ukrainian rhetoric is gone stale and transparent

Wolf359f

I wonder, realistically how many systems Ukraine would need to defend itself. I think people forget just how big Ukraine actually is.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209908#Comment_122209908

Its size is even more of a problem since putin's terrorists seem very happy to specifically go after civilian targets. They seem to be trying to use genocide and indiscriminate attacks to force mass migration and an EU with huge numbers of refugees to compensate for their military being so inadequate in achieving putin's twisted agenda. It is sad to see such growth in anti refugee political rhetoric from politicians in the EU as a result.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205205#Comment_122205205

Anyone who wrongspeaks in here is a Russian.

Boards is that important you see.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209908#Comment_122209908

They'd need a lot less if the US gave Ukraine the capability to go after targets deep in Russia

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209886#Comment_122209886

We've given very little in terms of air defense, as the west has little to give. We configured our miltary on the (reasonable) basis that since NATO has a pretty good air force, the only need for air defense units on the ground would be to backstop the airplanes and give a little additional protection to point targets. Thus few were maintained. One battery here or one launcher there is pretty limited when you look at how many systems an equivalent Russian unit is supposed to have given they never assumed Frontal Aviation would shoot most Nato stuff down. It's another example of systems being taken out of their original context. (The M1 tank is currently suffering from this as well)

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210432#Comment_122210432

Are you suggesting the US should give Ukraine long range cruise missiles to take out Russian air base thousands of miles into Russia?

That's the only way you prevent the bombers taking off in the first place.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210708#Comment_122210708

I am definitely suggesting that. Give them anything they need.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210721#Comment_122210721

Definitely. But seems people are afraid of Putin.

Pathetic.

iwasliedto

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210721#Comment_122210721

How far do you propose they go, give them a few nukes?

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210736#Comment_122210736

Everything but.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210708#Comment_122210708

Yes, exactly this