Russia-Ukraine War

zv2

A lot of people were copped on to them. Thread comments are a gas.

https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status/1801541279102243314

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248326#Comment_122248326

Berlin wall fell in 89 and the Russian's only fully left in 1994. There is a huge number of 2nd generation "Russian's" left in Germany now in the 30-40's age bracket who will be taking on positions of influence, and who are very much still very pro-Russian.

Even worse though, they haven't experienced the iron curtain, but still idolise it, and in their eyes Russia can do no wrong.

This is similar in a lot of Baltic states.

It's no surprise Putin waited until this scenario occurred, so there is maximum resistance engrained in various states socio-economic and political stances. This will be the case until this generation dies off unfortunately.

Only way to combat it is to recognise it's there, and vote against them, every time and everywhere.

zerosquared

Several reports and videos now of Russians getting surrounded in vovchansk right on the Kharkiv border

https://twitter.com/TOGAjano21/status/1801871026185187716

Danzy

It's great to see but the scale is very small. Not even a million shells.

The Red army are currently firing 300k shells a month, the Ukrainians 60k a month.

Even at that the Russians are dealing with the limits they have, and have fired more in the past.

Russia has China helping it and its production of weapons will continue to expand .

Western Europe refuses to take a meaningful step to defend itself or be in a position to help others.

China is running down the west capability of more precisely the West is allowing it by refusing to take defense seriously.

Germany is at least taking small steps to fixing that and by 2035 it is expected to have enough artillery to equate to what Russia or ukraine lose in 6 months.

Defense and security spending needs to be a European priority.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262131#Comment_122262131

Is China looking to swap Taiwan for Ukraine?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262249#Comment_122262249

It's all the one fight as far as Beijing, Tehran, Moscow and a good few others are concerned.

What is going on in Ukraine is likely the precursor to taking Taiwan and possibly Mongolia.

European armies are basically empty of ammunition and lacking equipment, it was right to give it to Ukraine but it was wrong to not aggressively replace it.

It's the scale needed that is the problem.

For Ukraine to beat Russia it will take multiples of what has been given. For Europe to be able to defend itself, its interests, deter The numerous enemies around it, it will take a significant jump in capability. Who honestly sees any interest in western Europe in self defense or national security, the opposite.

It looks like for the next decade anybad actor or totalitarian state will have free run.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262332#Comment_122262332

Same in this country no interest in defense or even credible deterrence.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262363#Comment_122262363

Has the West been lured into a false sense of security by nuclear deterrence?

Has China made its choice and we have to accept it as an unfriendly nation ,basically on a level with Russia?

saabsaab

Putin's 'Peace' offer sounds more like an ultimatum. More akin to Hitler's speech and 'Peace' offer to Britain after the fall of France.

junkyarddog

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1801958975585349939

Oops,somebody smoking again?

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262443#Comment_122262443

Yes ,that seems like a good way to view it.

What are the dynamics of support for Ukraine at the moment?

Is it losing ground in public opinion in the West(as opposed to support among the political groupings)?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262332#Comment_122262332

Eisenhower's speech in which he warns about the potential negative influence of the miltary-industrial complex is commonly cited on the Net, usually by people who are against the increase in arms manufacturing, be it for pacifist or "the money would be better spent elsewhere" concerns. However, very few people seem to cite the fact that the purpose of his speaking was to observe the necessity of having a miltary industrial complex in the first place even with the ancillary risks and costs. The first part of the speech has been forgotten about, the second has almost been used as a basis for domestic government policy since the 90s.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262443#Comment_122262443

is he trying to give the impression that he is putting it forward from a position of strength - I’d that the opposite could be the case.

To be kind to Putin , I’d say that he is trying to be the Devil’s advocate ,. He is trying to muddy the waters.

The timing of it is of interest - on the eve of the meeting in Switzerland.
If the proposal came from any other nation , one would be looking at it one way but when the proposer is from Russia one would have to look at it from a totally different angle

He is basically trying to mess with the heads of those in Switzerland on a NON issue Ie it is not a peace proposal , it is ‘ I want to MESS WITH YOUR HEADS PROPOSAL’

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262538#Comment_122262538

Seems in character.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262518#Comment_122262518

Someone recently said, might have been a quote, about how war was awful and the only thing worse was losing one.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262439#Comment_122262439

Yes. China is actively working, not just to subjugate its own population, but to undermine the very idea of Western democracy.

If you believe in democracy, then China is your enemy.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262518#Comment_122262518

General Patton's quote always gets taken out of context too (happy to be corrected, you know far much more than me on military matters)

We may have been fighting the wrong enemy (Germany) all along. But while we're here (on the Soviet border), we should go after the bastards now, 'cause we're gonna have to fight 'em eventually.

Where the above is usually the given context, where others have suggested it was the Jews, along with other versions of the quote.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262538#Comment_122262538

He also is setting the scene for the main Russian offensive, he tried the peace route etc etc. Lot of ot for domestic consumption and also for his numerous friends across Asia and Africa.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260375#Comment_122260375

Hey found your post

Ukraine has officially down this now

https://united24media.com/latest-news/ukraine-signals-openness-to-talks-with-russia-but-stands-firm-on-territorial-integrity-761

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262724#Comment_122262724

because the Kharkiv offensive went swimmingly well /s

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262598#Comment_122262598

So we should be trying to break through the wall of internet information (censorship) around China exactly as if we were already at war with them?

We should be funding anti CPC government groups living in the West and withholding visas for any one on the CCP page?

So long as it is productive.

Crack down on Beijing stooges?(when the time comes)

Let other countries choose a side?

3d4life

Stream of meeting in Switzerland

https://player.streaminghouse.ch/Player/Play/57056c99-4a0c-4807-a6f9-b06bf3eba639

rolling boh

I keep flip flopping over any possible end to this war ,can't see how either side will concede anything and can't see an end to it either as Putin despite all the wishful thinking that he will come a cropper just looks to have enough friends to help him carry on the way it is .The chances of Russia being completely defeated and driven out just don't appear likely at this stage .Of course the other side is Ukraine must win ,it's just depressing thinking about it .

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

Yes calling for peace whilst invading a sovereign nation and committing war crimes. That would be a great peace alright, I’m sure the survivors of Bucha would agree with you.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

Ah yes .Russia were the good guys and we never realized.

War is peace.I must have forgotten.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262877#Comment_122262877

The US at least is already funding anti-china propaganda, I read today about one quite nasty operation ran by the Trump regime to discredit the Chinese COVID vaccine in the Philippines.. of course the side effect was most likely dead Filipinos.. it was at least eventually stopped once Biden got into power

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/

nigeldaniel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

well now, let me see now… this might take me some considerable length of time, please don't want for me.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

Putin's Russia is a lover of peace in the same way that Mafiosi in movies are,

"Real fine establishment you got here. Listen - - me and my associate were thinkin' you'd do a lot better if you were to maybe offer us 50 percent of the profit dis place is makin' you right now. We're nice guys. We don't want no trouble. Be a real shame if anything bad was to happen here, like a sudden fire or you fallin' down a few flights of stairs and some heavy objects landin' on your head."

If Russia wanted peace from the beginning, then maybe they shouldn't have invaded Ukraine? In this way, Russia would have had peace and Ukraine would have had peace. Sounds mutually beneficial to me.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

Shouting "peace" while actively attacking someone is not "calling for peace".

also clownski isn't even the head of state anymore

Care to elaborate?

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263486#Comment_122263486

Its not a bit depressing the world is rallying around Ukraine while the russian war machine is being obliterated forever. Russia will collapse eventually and Putin will be dragged into the streets like Gaddafi.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263818#Comment_122263818

There's a certain kind of peace to be achieved in the complete slaughter of all your enemies, and it's a peace that's probably agreeable in Putin's mind.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

So if I start a fight by punching someone in the face, I can tell the guards I was calling for peace from the very beginning but the other guy kept fighting.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257148#Comment_122257148

In what way is it similar? 

It's similar as in that it's complicated. Many western commentators such as mearsheimer claim that the maiden revolution was a coup.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306

On the other extreme people claim that Ukraine which was regarded as the most corrupt country in Europe is full of modern day Saints.

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine

So, I would say it's complicated and NATO involvement in Ukraine spooked the Russian's and things got a lot worse prior to the war with all the ceasefire violations.

Putin's offer is humiliating for Ukraine but so was the Brits offer to Ireland. I think they should probably take the offer while they still have Ukrainian people left alive, declare neutrality and in a hundred years time they could start talking about reunification, like here.

Anyway, I suspect everyone here has heard all the discussion points and made up their minds. I'm for ceasefire and human rights.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

The rubles you’re being paid for this nonsense won’t even buy you toilet roll very soon.

Like a deck of cards, it’s coming and Putin knows it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263506#Comment_122263506

Pity Putin didn't give Russians the choice to vote for or against invading Ukraine, isn't it? Luna84. Oh, despite what the Kremlin factory of lies is telling you, President Zelenski is still the lawful President of Ukraine, and will remain so until the end of the war, because under the Ukrainian constitution, there cannot be any referendums or Presidential elections during war time. Next time you are posting, try to verify your clownish statements Luna84…

strathspey

Oh look, the local ruZZian sympathizer is back. Your pool of friends seems to have depleted very recently, aka Wallace and Daly.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263486#Comment_122263486

The Russian military could partially collapse or there could be an internal military crisis (not impossible considering what happened with Prigozhin), economic factors (the war is extremely expensive for Russia), domestic factors, political factors. There are things that could potentially force Putin into a real negotiation (likely brokered by a third party e.g. Turkey or China). Ukraine doesn't necessarily have to physically recapture every square centimeter, pressure is incredibly important, that includes the pressure domestically in Russia of a perpetual conflict that is sapping a lot from them.

Conversely Ukraine could get into trouble, but the allies seem to be showing increasing resolve rather than lacking (after the lull) and that is seriously denting Putin's long-term "wait them out" strategy.

Personally I would expect this war to end at the table, but with a real negotiation via back channels and third parties. When and how that happens is anyone's guess

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264254#Comment_122264254

I'm not reading a single syllable of that guff since you avoided my very directed questions. Quite rude of you.

Ill ask again in case you missed it. And I wont be replying to you again until you answer.

• Did Putin admit on TV to committing war crimes by lifting Ukrainian children from the occupied territories to reorient them?
• Did Russia commit genocidal acts in Bucha?

The answer should cost you at most 6 characters and as little as 4. So it shouldn't be very hard. Thanks

strathspey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264254#Comment_122264254

Actually here's a question you ruZZian sympathizers need to answer. What has putin's ruZZia created or even embellished over the last two decades that has enhanced or emboldened humanity? I'm reading a vey inciteful book at the minute, 'In Search of Excellence' which offers insights into the practices and strategies employed by America's most successful companies. A quote from the book is from one of Intel's founders, 'Go and create something wonderful'…. does putin's ruZZia even have the capacity?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262590#Comment_122262590

Likely a derivative of the Duke of Wellington "Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won." Its commonly misquoted as "there is nothing so terrible as a battle won, except a battle lost."

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264254#Comment_122264254

"Anyway, I suspect everyone here has heard all the discussion points…"

What you have posted are not discussion points but just a repetition of the usual kremlin b******t spouted by putin apologists.

jmreire

Oh my, oh my!!! Corruption in Ukraine! What could you expect when Russia was the mother and Putin the father, except Corruption? That was the main reason Ukraine was moving towards the west, to escape the corruption and improve the lives for ordinary Ukrainians' same as other ex-USSR countries had done. But Putin could not have a successful Ukraine on his borders, with impoverished Russians looking on enviously, now, could he? (aside of course from the mineral wealth, and the obvious technical capabilities the Ukrainians are capable of, in the field of aircraft design and construction etc) and much more. And as for the " Mearsheimer claim" you can take Mr. Mearsheimer and his claims with you next time you use the toilet and dispose of them there safely. There was a time when I had some respect for his opinions, but that's long gone now. As for the NATO fig leaf Putin used as the cover story for his invasion, who would attack the perceived 2nd most powerful military in the world, and one that was nuclear armed to boot? Indeed that,story was the reason countries were reluctant to back Ukraine heavily in the beginning, they didn't want to antagonize Putin.

Bottom line is, Putin illegally invaded the internationally recognised sovereign independent state of Ukraine. And based on that illegal act, everything else that Putin has done since, the referendum, elections, imposition of Russian laws and rule etc, are illegal too. And unfortunately, Putin doesn't share your preferences for peace and human rights .

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264405#Comment_122264405

In fairness, Ukraine has always been fairly inventive, with good manufacturing development etc. It was probably one of the reasons Putin invaded, he wanted those capabilities back.

jmreire

Not terrible long ago, at the depth of the weapons shortage for Ukraine, and when Russia were making gains (however minute and expensive they were in terms of manpower and equipment) Putin was asked was he planning to make any cease fire or calls for a freeze etc. And he replied that no, why make any such calls when he was on a winning track? So, things have definitely changed on his track now.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264492#Comment_122264492

I think it's really just that he regards Ukraine and Belarus as essentially part of Russia, and Ukraine contains Kyiv and Odessa - two jewels of the Russian empire, with Kyiv being a centre of slavic culture when Moscow didn't even really exist. He pretty much said in one of those essays that the modern day territory of Ukraine is an unjust artifice drawn up by short-sighted Bolsheviks. But as long as these countries remain Russian-aligned, he was content to let them remain as vassals, if only for stability's sake.

If it's about NATO on his borders, he already has plenty of that which he can basically live with.

If it's about living standards, he has similar on his borders with Finland and the Baltic states, and he can live with that, too.

So, it's not that he invaded because he couldn't have NATO on his borders, but that if Ukraine did become a part of NATO, then he would essentially lose the ability to halt Ukraine's westward pivot via military intervention.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264570#Comment_122264570

But of course, the fly in the ointment was that Ukraine having previous experience living under Putin was not content to go back and live under Russian rule again and that was the trigger. Regard less of the legal niceties, rights and wrongs etc. So, Putin, firm in the knowledge that he had the 2nd most powerful military in the world etc. etc. and convinced by his military advisors that they could take Kiev in 3 days etc, etc, Invaded. And so here we are. Ukraine is a bone that is now firmly stuck in Putin's throat, and is slowly choking him, and neither can he dislodge it. Plus, he's facing an increasingly disgruntled population at home…and hard economic times. Have to wait and see..

Say my name

Something I've never seen before on Twitter or X.

I put in the name of an area of Russia that is also the name of their submarine visiting Cuba. KAZAN. In the search function to see what would be occurring in that part of the world.

What is coming up, no sorry appearing, no wait included in the search results, are ads for escorts in Kazan, Russia.

Whether their regular way of advertising is shut down or that there's more of a need for money or looking for a new edge. But Musk's platform is now advertising escorts in Russia.

Slava_Ukraine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264671#Comment_122264671

It’s called being proactive. That’s their future.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264694#Comment_122264694

It's something anyway.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264694#Comment_122264694

The BRICS games are on in Kazan. That's what it is.