Russia-Ukraine War

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282198#Comment_122282198

But that's a rational appraisal of what he should have done, but he's not acting rationally.

The previous event you mention do build a pattern though, Chechnya was considered a post soviet Russian federation conflict that no one knew where to begin to intercede. Then after 9/11 Putin was invited to Crawford range where Bush Jr presented him as an asset in the US war on a noun.

The bombing of Georgia raised eyebrows, but in the US war on a noun he was still an asset in the "with us or against us" axiom.

The pattern seems bigger and bolder, broader and more brutal because up until his outright invasion no one could fight back. Russia might have reached the limit of his conventional military capabilities, but that doesn't mean Putin has reached his limits with nuclear.

keeponhurling

Bit of a predictable response from the South Koreans:

"South Korea hit out at the pact, which it called "absurd", and said it would reconsider sending weapons to Ukraine. 

The presidential office said Russia's military assistance to the North would have a negative impact on relations between Seoul and Moscow. 

Any actions helping North Korea increase its military capability are a violation of UN resolutions, it said. 

It added it would further strengthen South Korea's security cooperation with the US and Japan. "

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282145#Comment_122282145

The US are not responsible for Russia invading Ukraine. That's more the Russian line of what started the war. Russia engaged in expansionism and thought they could get away with it cause they've gotten away with a lot since the early 2000s including Crimea, political assassinations in the UK with chemical and respective weapons. So at worst, the West can be blamed for not taking a harder line against Russia over the last two decades.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282294#Comment_122282294

Putin needs to project domestically that Russia is not "isolated". Also he badly needs equipment/arms from sanction dodging places like N Korea.

ToweringPerformance

Will be very interested to see how President Putin gets on in Vietnam. Real tug of war country for American and China imo.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0620/1455658-putin-vietnam/

Definitely a warm welcome for him that's for sure.

https://news.sky.com/video/putin-in-vietnam-russian-president-embraces-vietnamese-counterpart-as-he-begins-state-visit-13155910

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282239#Comment_122282239

The ones who did like Bald and Bankrupt got thrown in prison to experience Russian prison hospitality and prostate check (after which he stopped gushing positively about the place and got out as quickly as his legs could carry him) before being permanently banned from the country

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282397#Comment_122282397

Noone cares. Your mask has slipped completely now. Fair play you kept it up for a while.

But it's over. You're no different than the driveby ,Kremlin apologetic , low post count/Russian bots at this stage.

Good riddance.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282535#Comment_122282535

Standard division creator, absolutely should be ignored.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282387#Comment_122282387

The US did cosy up with Putin after 9/11. Bush buffered up Putin at Crawford ranch in lieu of the Iraq invasion.

In effect that did make Putin feel Russia had regained Soviet era geopolitical respect.

I'm sure Putin came feeling that he had tacit encouragement to invade anywhere in the same way the US/UK invaded Iraq without a UN mandate.

Putin could say the Iraq invasion made the post USSR international order meaningless.

So while the US may not have directly poked the bear it can't be seen as innocent in previous encouragement.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281985#Comment_122281985

San francisco is now one of the biggest shi7 holes I have been, was there for a j1 20 years ago. What a difference in that time.

Same with a lot of cities near it.

Oakland is going to make Detroit look nice in a few years.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282582#Comment_122282582

Different discussion for different thread for sure but parts of the US look like the 3rd world under Biden's term in the Whitehouse. Not his fault directly of course it's been going on for years and took a turn for the worse under Obama without a doubt but very scary to see how far they have fallen in a short space of time.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281853#Comment_122281853

I think a lot depends on Ukrainian aims and ambitions. They've taken large losses and extensive damage. The eastern parts of their state are important to them. In for a penny, in for a pound. With support from Europe and USA and others, they can minimise their own losses, wage a war of attrition on the Russian military resources inc strikes across the border. Then seize the day when the opportunity eventually arises. Russian economy is on a war footing but it still has to function as a state and look after the basic needs of it's proletariat. Can they keep it up?

On the other hand, Ukraine might settle for some present day 'borders' on condition of guaranteed access to the EU and NATO with large scale investments from the West to rebuild and arm etc.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282759#Comment_122282759

Whatever about Crimea, I'd wonder if they'd settle for the 2014 borders with the breakaway region. And have the right to join the EU and NATO

zerosquared

”Putin gave Kim a new Aurus vehicle and a tea set”

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20240619010100315?section=national/diplomacy

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c899nwx8821o
Kim dear Kim, be careful mate!

Dohnjoe

The body language

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282145#Comment_122282145

About the only way this war was avoidable is if Kiev remained like Belarus with a Kremlin puppet at the helm. That's the "bad politics" at play. The US' foreign policy is regularly cúntish. I certainly don't consider them angels. I protested their wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, just like I protest this Russian ballsology.

As for the post WW2 score sheet the vast majority of those questionable conflicts were Cold War proxies with the Kremlin. There was a pair of them in it. Post the collapse of the Soviet Union the US military machine had a hard on looking for somewhere to stick it.

As for regime change by nefarious US groups like the CIA that Russia blames; if you look at their actual historical record, not Hollywood or Kremlin spin, they were remarkably crap at it. Indeed if one looks to nations in South America the Russians appeared to be far better at it. Though the reality is they weren't either. They happened to support already winning sides almost by mistake. Same for the Americans. The US put their might into trying to turn Cuba with clandestine ops and even an invasion of sorts over many decades and failed miserably. Where they "won" they did it by bankrolling already powerful right wingers in militaries and even then that didn't always go to plan and in the case of Panama required them to send in the troops when "their man" went rogue.

Yet we're expected to believe that orgs like the CIA were able to cause a revolution in Ukraine, and sustain that revolution over nearly a decade, through internationally observed elections that even the Russians didn't question and different parliaments and presidents? Pull the other one. The far more likely reality is a large enough chunk of Ukrainians wanted more autonomy from Moscow and more connections with the EU/West and heavy handed ballsology by the existing Russian backed oligarchy tipped over into revolt. Of course by invading Ukraine, that Putin et al say doesn't really exist, they only went and forged a nation. For all Putin's nods to his version of history, it might have served the muppet better to actually read history and the history of how nations and nationhoods are formed. Not least our own.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282622#Comment_122282622

Different thread alright but I remember being in NY on a j1 around 89 and homelessness was chronic, people sleeping under cardboard around wall street etc.. the Bronx looked it had been bombed.

It cleaned up in the following decade but until the whole Sex and the City franchise NY was a place you only commuted to.

In the old Soviet days they'd use such footage to justify their system.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282145#Comment_122282145

Can you explain what the US \ The West should have done then, how this would have been done in such as way that Russia would not react, and that Ukraine's sovereignty and independence could have been guaranteed and protected from Russian threats and domination?

Otherwise, we can assume this is just kneejerk anti-US student politics without foundation or merit.

TheValeyard

More Patriots!

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1803762320851525713

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282956#Comment_122282956

And before the usually crowd say 'what use are patriot systems if they don't have missiles'

It would be nice to start seeing more Russian planes being shot down, this time over Russia!

https://united24media.com/latest-news/us-prioritizes-sending-patriot-missiles-to-ukraine-over-switzerland-813

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282397#Comment_122282397

You do know that the US is Vietnam's largest export market and second largest trading partner? Indeed Vietnam has become America's ninth biggest trading partner and that trend is going up year on year. There's little your "President Putin" can offer them beyond firesale price oil.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282535#Comment_122282535

On top of the true blue bots, a load of old/middle aged western Marxist types have been rowing in behind putin. He covers a couple of bases and triggers for them; hatred for the US as a great satan and a hankering for the failed Soviet/Socialist notions that they luckily never had to live under. You know the type; 70's students with Army Bargains army jackets, PLO scarves and that pic of Guevara on the wall of their bedsit in an unironic way. There can be some overlap with general peaceniks too. The Chomsky's of the world. Clare Daly would be poster girl for the type. The Kremlin used Western fringes like them back in Cold War days(a load of their orgs died right after the Wall fell. Funny that…) and they're happy to get them on board in Cold War 2, along with not in my day conservatives who don't understand what's happening, MAGA, conspiracy nuts and just asking questions types.

Raoul Duke III

Vietnam's position on Russia is similar to that of China or Hungary.

They are happy to spout pro-Russian platitudes but when it comes down to cold, hard cash, their strategic interests are aligned with the USA (and EU).

North Korea, Syria or Iran don't have that option so we can say they are the only true allies of Russia. And the potato farmer in Minsk of course. What a club to be in!

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282622#Comment_122282622

Absolute horseshit

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283024#Comment_122283024

What’s interesting is how South Korea and Japan respond to North Korean Russian fling

They must be scratching their heads and not believing their luck that they now have an opportunity to drain both North Korea and Russia of weapons by redirecting a tiny portion of their industrial complex (which in case of S Korea never went on peace footing) to helping Ukraine

South Korea + Japan alone have an economy that’s 3-4x of Russia+N Korea

Paddigol

The 'not in my day conservatives' (great moniker 😂) are the worst/ potentially most dangerous. They span every social/ economic strata, including people who would not be outwardly left or right wing, but would privately sympathise with left or right wing narratives.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281645#Comment_122281645

Yes, but you will notice that these parts of Moscow you mention, are never seen in these walk-around type vid's, Yes, Putins war is sucking every available ruble out if the economy, leaving very little even for basic maintenance, not even a lick of paint, The 7 Sisters being a prime example.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283393#Comment_122283393

Hopefully South Korea lifts their ban.

I mean Ukraine should have a $50 billion loan by the end of the year. As long as there's no restrictions, it would be nice for them to be able to purchase what ever weapons they believe will help them, rather than waiting on aid.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/south-korea-to-reconsider-ban-on-weapons-sales-to-ukraine/

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283377#Comment_122283377

"North Korea, Syria or Iran don't have that option so we can say they are the only true allies of Russia"

Are you forgetting Trump and the flies buzzing round his mound of shite?

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283532#Comment_122283532

I don’t remember which podcast in last few days, maybe Telegraphs Ukraine the Latest but one of the commentators made observation that this North Korea thing is going to make a good few people in China uncomfortable as their relationship with North is “complicated” and they don’t like having a mad nuclear armed state on border, tis bad for “harmony” and “stability”, hence why China joined in so many sanctions too

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283578#Comment_122283578

Is that one reason Putin did it?(whatever it is he actually did)

An ally against China?

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283024#Comment_122283024

Leave Michael D out of this, he is now our president

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283601#Comment_122283601

I'd say at this stage Putin will go where ever he can for aid. They're sending lads to the front now on scramblers and desert cross vehicles (golf buggies with motor engines) so it could be a case of asking former soviet allies for any extra bit of gear.

I don't know about N Korea but the Soviets played the Vietnamese off China after the Sino-Soviet war.

keeponhurling

I think China were OK with a war in Europe, but not so keen an a military arms build-up in their backyard.

Priority number one is to avoid a war or State collapse in NK, as they fear a stream of refugees. War becomes more likely with an emboldened NK.

This could be another blunder by Putin. Although desperate men tend not to think straight.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283561#Comment_122283561

I wasn't referring to individuals. Even with Trump as President (God forbid), the USA would never be formally aligned with Russia.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283720#Comment_122283720

The USA was formally aligned with Russia in the aftermath of 9/11. In the run up to the invasion of Iraq Putin was in the US camp while China was in the French camp.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283759#Comment_122283759

You are confusing tactical cooperation (against the Taliban and Al Quaeda) with full strategic partnership. Not the same thing at all.

Kalyke

BREAKING: The U.S. "has made the difficult but necessary decision to reprioritize near-term planned deliveries of foreign military sales" to other countries of Patriot and NASAM missiles to go to Ukraine instead, per John Kirby

From Lara Seligman on X

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283720#Comment_122283720

I was referring to Trump's "Republican" party and not formal alliances (yet).

As we are ,he is their ally but will not admit it as it might lose him the election.

Just the odd nod and a wink so far.

I think if he gets in he will want to carve up Europe btw him and his mates.

Wouldn't be unprecedented .

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281779#Comment_122281779

Yes.sure. But you are talking about the best parts of Moscow and St, Petersburg, where you have both, Travel the republics, and in these cities there's not much "Good"to balance out the bad parts.In other words, Moscow and St Petersburg are the best that Russia has to offer.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281832#Comment_122281832

The fact that in any discussions Russia engages in about peace or talk's or treatys' etc, top of the list of preconditions before talks can even begin is the " all sanctions must be lifted". For sure, Russia is feeling full effects of them, despite Putins best efforts to persuade the world that they are not having any effect

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281542#Comment_122281542

Yes making a video of supermarkets is such a normal thing for tourists to do and yet another normal day for putin's forces in Ukraine yesterday:

I'm sure you would say it looks like putin can cope with these losses without it being any sort of problem for his mighty empire and time is running out for Ukraine to make concessions….

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282905#Comment_122282905

There is always a middle way, the main problem for Europe is it looks like it has backed a loser, cant be a positive for the long term serviceability of either NATO or the EU, one should worry about the "sheer fkn hubris" of it all

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285901#Comment_122285901

Im not sure what you think the point is? all that matters is where you think the lines will be in 6 mths? 50% i'd say no significant change but there is a downside risk for Ukraine on the other hand I dont see the lines retaking Crimea or any such.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285958#Comment_122285958

The lines didn't really change in WW1 for 4 years. Then one side collapsed.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285947#Comment_122285947

The other option was giving Russia free reign to complete the invasion. This would have resulted in larger scale genocide. On top of that, their military would have been left in a far stronger position without international backing for Ukraine. So Russia could easily have considered expanding beyond Ukraine. So what pray tell is the "middle ground" you have in mind?

Russia aren't coming out of this as a winner in any way btw. International position destroyed, huge amounts of oligarch's wealth taken, trade relationships destroyed and their army is decimated. Prior to the war they were viewed to have a pretty powerful military but that image has been decimated.

Field east

there is ABSOLUTLY no mention in this thread app out the amount of CO2 being produced because of the war. Areas could be divided into :-

(1) explosion of bombs, missiles, etc

(2) fuel used in vehicles - airplanes, vehicles

(3) manufacturing of machinery, vehicles, missiles for use in the war

Field east

Forgot no 4 ie all the Co2 being produced because of all the fires- buildings, forests, vehicles, etc.

Igotadose

Producing the vast quantities of concrete that will be required to rebuild Ukraine will generate enormous amounts of CO2 as well.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286022#Comment_122286022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286026#Comment_122286026

Russia have assured us of a more carbon neutral invasion going forward.

1 tank = 1 tree

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285986#Comment_122285986

You assuming Russia just collapses? i'd go with 95% ukraine doing that if they are the choices.