Russia-Ukraine War

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311299#Comment_122311299

This would be my take on it too. Basically, we have to get real, up the stakes, take the fight to Putin and finish it, once and for all.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311664#Comment_122311664

I was interpreting his post, not endorsing him. From the link you posted:

"NATO Headquarters. I held a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. The key focus was on preparations for the NATO Washington Summit. We expect decisions to enhance the Alliance's role in coordinating security assistance and training for Ukrainian troops, as well as long-term financial commitments to ensure stable support for Ukraine."

Which is what I said, vis-a-vis security.

Virgil°

https://unn.ua/en/news/zelensky-wants-to-submit-to-the-second-peace-summit-a-detailed-plan-of-steps-for-each-of-the-crises-brought-by-the-war

Here's the actual quote:

Now we need to develop a detailed plan of detailed steps regarding all the crises that Putin's war has brought to our country. We have months to come up with this plan, we don't have much time. We have many wounded, killed both military and civilians. So we don't want this war to last for years. Therefore, we should prepare this plan and put it on the negotiating table at the second Peace Summit,

He adds:

Asked whether "there is any request, negotiations with Russia after the summit," Zelenskyy replied: "I do not have any dialog with them.

This literally couldn't be further from Zelensky about to throw in the towel to Russia in 2 months. Although he is pointing out that Ukraine won't hold out forever. I somehow doubt they'll be able to pull off another mobilization. So Russia being allowed drag out this war for another 5 years at the current tempo isn't something that Ukraine can afford. Even if they somehow won at the end of that there may not be much left of Ukraine afterwards.

RGARDINR

I didn't watch the American presidential debate during the night but looking at the write up from sky news it seems it was a disaster for Joe Biden. If they thought that I am sure a lot of Americans thought that and especially Americans on the fence on who to vote for. The debate was closely watched across all of Europe/Ukraine and Russia and I say its given a lot of anxiety in most places but I say those in the Kremlin were extremely happy. B

PopePalpatine

And so are the local Putin simps hoping he'll save them from a kicking in their custody battles.

zv2

One more down-

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310928#Comment_122310928

I'm not sure they would.

What has changed? NATO is a defensive alliance and Ukraine is not a member.

It is however very alarming that an Asian country is effectively invading a European country. Expect a ramping up of support, including also hopefully South Korean support.

North Korea is probably one of the few countries who are actually OK with using their military as cannon fodder.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306362#Comment_122306362

There's another tide that's turning, and not in Putin's favour. The Russian tide. He doesn't have endless amounts of time, and as they say, a week can be an awful long time in politics. He's facing challenges not only from the republics but also in Moscow St. Petersburg. Because of the manpower shortage, he's come up with the bright idea of making every one work longer hours inc. Saturday, but without any extra pay. Plus, the city infrastructure is being eroded due to lack of funds / maintenance. Trams going of the rails, bridges collapsing, dams breaking, underground water systems exploding etc. If Muscovites thought last winter was bad, they will have another opener this coming winter. Then we have the mobilisation that was not needed, according to Putins pre -election manifesto, but has been going on nevertheless, the quiet one, but going full steam ahead in the background. Russians are becoming more and more outspoken about the regime than they were formerly, its quite common now to see U tube Vids with people speaking out about their grievances, and if still not outright blaming Putin by name, they are still blaming him and his government. He's sailing very choppy waters….and so are his Silovicki and Oligarchs!

Sunny Disposition

It does look like Trump will win so Europe has to ramp up support massively.

While this may not be very easy, it is essential if we want European security. There is no alternative. Ireland needs to get real and start to contribute.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313341#Comment_122313341

After last nights performance, I'd say so. Now they both did sh1te, but Biden just came off completely and utterly clueless.

This is not good for Ukraine or for Europe. You'd wonder if the plan to send troops into Western Ukraine should be greatly sped up.

TheValeyard

Some possible good news at least...

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1806630634116227555

TheValeyard

More good news

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1806638132231594390

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310151#Comment_122310151

You may be disappointed in what was actually said. It doesn't appear to be what you rushed to post.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122314640#Comment_122314640

Its been clarified since

denismc

Lasts nights debate was terrible,Trump just stood there and spouted nonsense and Biden failed to call him out on it.

Its obvious now that Biden is not fit to run.

While it's unprecedented I wouldn't be surprised if Biden withdraws before the Democratic nomination in August and is replaced by someone more capable.

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122314994#Comment_122314994

Who do you think would be the contenders?

Hilary?

denismc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315007#Comment_122315007

I'm not sure, Harris doesn't seem to have broad appeal, Gavin Newsom has been mentioned and there are a few others I'm not familiar with.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315043#Comment_122315043

Pritzker gets some press being the gov. of Illinois and 'moderate.' Amy Klobuchar might have midwest appeal. I think "Mayor Pete" Buttegieg would make a good POTUS.

But this is a discussion that should have taken place a couple years ago. If Biden steps aside, its a disaster for Ukraine as the GQP will feel empowered to be obstructive. And for Europe. Not as big a disaster as if CFTrump wins, but not good. The EU and Ireland really should ramp up it's military readiness, CFTrump has threatened to abandon it and tariff it's goods coming into America. Just an existential disaster for the West should CFTrump get elected again.

Thelonious Monk

https://x.com/BrennpunktUA/status/1806455014149235028

More good news for Ukraine, Kaja Kallas is likely to be the EU Foreign Minister and Estonians really hate Russia

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122314994#Comment_122314994

It is always possible for Kamala Harris to get in the driving seat once he is elected.

keeponhurling

he won’t be elected

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315007#Comment_122315007

Just going off what I heard on the radio this morning but it was also suggested that Gretchen Whitmer would be a good alternative Democrat candidate if Biden can be convinced it is better to let someone else run in his place. She is from Michigan which I think was referred to as a battleground state so a win there for her could be significant in winning the election.

The point was made as well that Trump did not come across very well either with his unpleasant character showing and numerous blatant lies highlighted during the debate.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315324#Comment_122315324

Kamala who?

Seems like she disappeared after the 2020 election

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313341#Comment_122313341

Europe's militaries are so degraded that ramping up for 10 years time would be an achievement.

Across most of Europe the will just isn't there.

I think rearmament and preparation for future conflict is the most important issue facing Europeans today, by some distance.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316302#Comment_122316302

I can certainly understand (pre-Russian Invasion) why Europe's main focus wasn't continuing to arm like during the cold war.

It always seems to go back to artillery, What was it you said, Germany hope to field 1000 field guns by 2030? And you said they would last a few months in a war with Russia? I don't even think Ukraine has lost that much in over 2 years fighting.

It always puzzled me, European countries with nuclear weapons, cruise missiles, submarines, aircraft carries, stealth fighters… having to rely on plain aul artillery. What kind of war would they be facing and against whom? Some post apocalypse Russia?

EMP fried all the tech so we're back to WWI tactics?

Manic Moran

Artillery is considered the "King of Battle" for a reason. It has a far greater impact on shaping the battlefield at division level and below than any other system in the miltary arsenal and that's in a maneuver-centric miltary like the US. (And frankly, few nations in the West have anything higher than division level capability anyway).

Apparently a lot of orders were placed at Eurosatory last week. Not so much because the militaries in question felt that the equipment on offer was absolutely what they wanted, but because they realized that if they didn't order anything now, it would be many years before they could order anything at all. There is basically the miltary production equivalent of a bank rush going on.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316524#Comment_122316524

I think a distinction has to be drawn between artillery as a whole and basic unguided 152/155 artillery shells because Russia is constantly trying to suggest that they are better because they produce more of the latter.

However, the current war in Ukraine has shown that precision long range fires are far more important and can successfully disrupt logistics and prevent rapid advances.

It would be nice to see either cheaper production of the current precision fires like GMLRS and excalibur (or even precision guidance kits) due to scale etc, or some cheaper alternative generally that isnt as capable but does a similar job. The GLSDB was such a proposal but it is unclear how successful its been.

But the key point is that Russia is gearing up to produce millions of unguided shells every year and there are calls for US/EU to do likewise. I think it would be a mistake to fall into this trap, when precision long range fires are the real threat to Russia and should be prioritised.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316266#Comment_122316266

She is vice president.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316592#Comment_122316592

"I
think it would be a mistake to fall into this trap, when precision long
range fires are the real threat to Russia and should be prioritised."

The losses of putin's artillery systems have consistently been very high in recent weeks with the Ukrainians clearly having identified good ways of eliminating them. They claim to have knocked out another 57 yesterday. I remember a post about a soldier that came from Ireland having knocked out three artillery systems himself in one day using FPV drones and I would not be surprised if these play a role in making traditional artillery less effective on the battlefield so I agree it would be a mistake for the EU to simply copy what putin's military are doing. All the ammunition in the world is of little use if the means to deliver them to targets are destroyed as soon as they become active.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312808#Comment_122312808

The Putin administration must be delighted and also feeling justified at the apparent decadence at the core of one of their big opponents. The weakness of them that they can only put up these two elderly pensioners for the highest office in the state. Don't be surprised if Vlad starts lecturing us on the final years of the Roman empire.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316371#Comment_122316371

What was it you said, Germany hope to field 1000 field guns by 2030? And you said they would last a few months in a war with Russia? I don't even think Ukraine has lost that much in over 2 years fighting.

Ukraine has lost far more than 1000 field guns. What planet are you on? You probably still believe Zelenski saying that only 41000 soldiers has died.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317408#Comment_122317408

What's your source for the numbers of losses Ukrainians have suffered at the hands of putin's terrorists, the kremlin?

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317418#Comment_122317418

Well now if we are all so gullible I have a few magic beans I'd sell you for a good price.

Why is there a shortage of fighting men because they have all died and been injured.

pummice

Good article on the current situation on the Kherson bridgehead

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerdw9g159o

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317425#Comment_122317425

I have heard of putin's shortage of fighting men and the need they have to import poor people from other parts of the globe to keep their cannon fodder stocks in Ukraine maintained so they can hold on to the parts of Ukraine putin has illegally occupied. Latest I read is that even north Korea is thinking of helping him out with his cannon fodder shortage.

I don't think Ukraine has suffered insignificant losses but it had a population of almost 44million before putin's more widespread attacks in 2022 and unlike the war of choice that putin has engaged in, Ukraine is fighting for its survival so has a much more willing group of people to source soldiers from. Ukrainians have a choice between getting murdered by putin's terrorists if they stop fighting or defending themselves and running the risk of getting killed when trying to stop genocide in their country. It is often said as well that defending forces have an advantage over those attacking by having prepared positions so losses in putin's forces are likely to be much larger. A lot of putin's forces have died and been injured and recruiting replacements is going to continue to be more and more difficult as it becomes obvious to more people that there is nothing he can achieve by occupying parts of Ukraine.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317536#Comment_122317536

I never said Russia isn't loosing men. Both sides are loosing men all the time it's just for some reason some people cannot get their heads around the fact that a very high number of Ukrainians have died.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317425#Comment_122317425

As Ryan McBeth said at the start of the war, Ukraine trades territory for lives, Russia trades lives for territory.

We're seeing the fruits of this over the past months. Record casualties on the Russian side, easily a million men killed and wounded over the past years, and videos of untrained, poorly equipped conscripts getting massacred by artillery and drones.

No doubt Ukraine have problems, but Russia is breaking itself on Ukrainian defences. A town here, a village there, what does it matter when the defenders have months to fortify the next town and the next village.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317408#Comment_122317408

So what are the correct numbers for lost artillery pieces and soldiers then?

RGARDINR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317536#Comment_122317536

Ukraine does have 44 million people but does that include all regions of Ukraine like Crimea and other regions that Russia has falsely occupied? Also the 44 million probably includes pro Russians in that figure that are fighting against Ukraine and who want a Russian victory. Also with people who have left Ukraine. I say the figure is considerably less that Ukraine can actually look to get people to fight for them.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317408#Comment_122317408

In total, 615 airplanes and 276 helicopters, 26,777 unmanned aerial vehicles, 533 air defence missile systems, 16,446 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,357 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 11,020 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 23,049 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation. - Ukranian losses as per Russian MOD

Is that your source? I only ask as before the invasion Ukraine had just under 2000 pieces of artillery and since then have received about 1000 from the west. So the Russians claim to have destroyed nearly 4x as many as Ukraine actually have?

When the OP referenced 1000 field guns, I assume he meant 155mm artillery and not mortars and unguided MLRS. So the figures would be even smaller.

riffmongous

Coming right on the heels of the Biden - Trump debate debacle now is the French Election this weekend.. Le Pen's party are favourites and she was quite a big fan of Putin up until the most recent invasion forced her to change her (public) tune

TheValeyard

Lets see if true, have doubts

https://twitter.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/1807031696321114432

zv2

A little bit of history

https://twitter.com/20gimsack/status/1806877568609513871

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317632#Comment_122317632

Just took the figure from what I got when I did a google search for the number and it presented a graph that is said to have the World Bank as the source. Not sure what methodology they use in their calculations. It shows a peak of population in Ukraine about 1993 of over 52million and a gradual drop up until 2021 and a more rapid drop since then. Not sure if they include territory occupied by putin but I guess the figure of over 52million in 1993 would include all of the territory inside Ukraine's internationally recognised borders. There is from what I have read a lot of forced migration within Ukraine due to the invasion so I would imagine a lot of the younger Ukrainians from the occupied territories are now living further to the west in the country.

No idea how many of these people would be wanting a victory for putin but seeing some of what he has done to their homes in the east of Ukraine I would imagine his support amongst the Ukrainian people is significantly less now than it might have been before the full scale invasion. I am in no way saying Ukraine can field an army of 44million people and think this figure includes a number who would not be able to put up much resistance to putin's terrorists. There are a lot more things people can do to help fight putin than carry a gun on the front lines and I have seen videos produced showing how some retired elderly people in Ukraine help out by producing camouflage and some household sized drone assembly operations look to be very productive in the number of putin's terrorists they help to eliminate. As we have seen with support for Ireland from abroad in history from Irish people who found success after leaving I'd imagine there are a lot of Ukrainians living abroad who are very supportive of their relatives suffering from putin's terrorism in their homeland. The figures I found would suggest this number would amount to millions of potential supporters for Ukraine living abroad. Canada alone is said to have a population of 1.36million Canadian Ukrainians and this may explain some of the support from these countries governments for Ukraine.

zv2

I've seen a few videos like this recently

https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1807088027229184486

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317540#Comment_122317540

Ah you're back again. Now concern trolling over Ukrainian figures (previously you were acting outraged over Russian casualties on annexed territory due to Putin's invasion)

While you are still in the thread, out of curiosity, why does support of Ukraine trigger you so much?

Assuming for a second you aren't actually a Kremlin bot, if another neutral country, for example, Ireland were being invaded by Putin and Irish people were being slaughtered in the same way the Ukrainians are, for the same reasons - would you be making these same remarks?

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318431#Comment_122318431

People like them are in every population and usually called contrarians. Regardless of the situation at any given time they will always go against the grain just for the sake of it. Being an obfuscation gives them nourishment. Expect frustration and feeling nihilistic dealing with them at their level. Ignore is your best friend.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318191#Comment_122318191

I still remember the footage of the FPV drone trying to chase a KA-52 a few months back.

I've also seen larger quadcopters ferrying FPV and releasing them to extend their range.

Won't be long untill we see a FPV drone taking down a shahed drone.

It's been an eye opening war for the effectiveness of cheap drones.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318820#Comment_122318820

It's only getting started. Weird and wonderful things to come.

Say my name

This deserves to be on RTE 1 nine o clock news.

http://twitter.com/ArturRehi/status/1807128655325282763