Russia-Ukraine War

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357866#Comment_122357866

Military deaths. Doesn't include civilians as I don't think its a relevant comparator in the context of this war which is being fought entirely on Ukrainian soil.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360926#Comment_122360926

So many reputable reports that you can't link to any of them into your post. A post that is beyond pathetic, actually disgusting.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361799#Comment_122361799

I'm not sure the relevance of comparing things like that.

Russia also lost over 125k soldiers in about 3 months when it tried to invade little Finland in 1939. To a few lads zipping about on skis and a bit of cold weather.

Lost over a million in 6 month as well defending one city (Stalingrad) which can also be viewed out of context.

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361118#Comment_122361118

This is the most plausible explanation for what happened IMO.

Russia is a terrorist state and is absolutely responsible for every life lost at that hospital on yet another despicable act in this war. The missile was Russian and everyone knows this, despite what the troll comes in to say differently, without any evidence whatsoever.

However I do not believe they would have knowingly and deliberately targeted a hospital full of sick children, only because it damages them more to do it. I don't think Putin would have wanted this to happen when Modi was visiting and then to get a vague rebuttal from Modi over it.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360926#Comment_122360926

I'm inclined to trust Bellingcat a hell of a lot more than your vague claims... Any reason why you haven't linked to said blogs btw?

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2024/07/09/russian-missile-identified-in-kyiv-childrens-hospital-attack/

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361938#Comment_122361938

Hard to know, with the depravity of Russia/their military. It is (if as reported) one of their better cruise missiles, likely a brand new one, so possibility is there it was deliberate rather than a failure.

Russia hasn't shown much scruples about missile-striking and bombing hospitals.

It looks like it is/was a big and very fancy + quite modern piece of infrastructure in Kyiv (now successfully ruined, or at least seriously damaged?) so maybe that is enough for it to go on their target list, if they found a chink in the air defence and were able to get a missile through onto it.

Say my name

I remember when the news of Bucha came out there were apologists for Putin trying to rationalise in their own head online that this is what Russian forces don't do.

These were mostly western viewers who grew up away from the last 100 years of Russian military and kgb, fsb action and based their views on pro Russian films and media made for western viewers.

But gradually now the scales are being removed from even the ardent eyes at the time of what the Russian military is and that's to rule through terrorism with zero phucks given what anyone else thinks.

Modi was basically saying to Putin if you were dirt on my shoe I'd wipe you off but I can't as you have the petrol and oil. And Putin was Saddam Hussein like in response in I'm not bothered, I'm fine with that.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360926#Comment_122360926

So not that long after our most recent example of the inhumanity of the Russian Federation and their masters, you have the guile to come on here and post this in support of them.

Actually, scratch that, "guile" can be seen as virtue in some and what you just did there is devoid of any value. Beyond of course to those in the Kremlin who either have a lean on your thoughts or who's payroll you belong to.

For you to come into a forum inhabited by civilised human beings and attempt to victim-blame a city that just had it's Childrens's hospital hit is beyond vile and if you possesed any morality you should feel shame that you typed any of those letters.

You couldn't care less if what you typed was true or not, your goal was to take a vile and universally hated Russian act and somehow inject doubt they had somehow didn't do it and suggest that the victims themselves are somehow the villains?! You know damned well what you are trying to do and regardless if you are an actual misguided person on Boards, or a Russian asset, know this:

• You are on the wrong side of history.
• Most of the world knows better and will not buy into your facist little bubble
• And when this is all done, and world revolves back onto itself…we will remember people like you and we will remind you of how ashamed you should be.

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361990#Comment_122361990

I've no doubt about the depravity of Russia and what it's capable of doing. And I don't think they care one jot about any of the victims caught up in their acts, I would go as far to say some individuals would probably be actively rejoicing it.

But it does not make any sense whatsoever for them to target a hospital, they full well know they will get more blowback for it and may end up helping Ukraine gain more defensive weapons from the act. But who knows? A lot of stuff Russia does doesn't make any sense.

Regardless it is still yet another vile attrocity of many, that they keep committing time and time again.

keeponhurling

It’s worth reminding that Putin wants the Ukrainian territory, but not the Ukrainian people who live on the territory.

While adults may not want to leave their homeland, they may think differently if they have children.

These attacks on children’s facilities push more Ukrainians to leave. It might be barbaric but there is unfortunately a twisted logic to it.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362368#Comment_122362368

I somehow doubt that he doesn't want the people. We know Putin has machinations for Poland and the Baltics. If he wins in Ukraine his next move will be to Russify the Ukrainian people, steal and acquire their recently hard earned military tech and prowess. Then use Ukraine to as a stage to invade deeper into Europe. He needs the people to do that.

Although i do agree that the attacks are to make some Ukrainians leave. I think it's more to create additional refugees in western Europe. Giving the far right anti immigration(and typically pro Putin) cohort a reason to get riled up in those countries. Thankfully that didn't fully bear fruit in France. And absolutely failed in the UK.

But thats all speculation honestly.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362432#Comment_122362432

As with any facist regime, he will desire an underclass of serfs / slaves to account for labor shortages or lack of funds overall. The Nazies deported not only jews, but also young & able citizens from the lands they conquered. They took them into Germany proper to toil in their factories and fields, essentally as captive slaves, so they could spare their own citizens for the war effort or for tasks more "worthy" of them.

Russians would do this too in a heartbeat, and likely also take as many fertile people as possible to help mitigate the demographic timebomb that frankly has already exploded in Russia. Even with a load of Ukrainian slaves in the birthpool, there is no turning back and the Russian birthrate is not likely to ever recover.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362537#Comment_122362537

ruSSians already are slaves. Ukrainians are not. a slave enslaving a non-slave? I doubt.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362560#Comment_122362560

It's all realitve. Putin already has enslaved the Russians, but by enslaving another people under them, some Russians (despite their lot in Putin's Russia) might feel realtivly better off than the new class of sub-humans that the Kremin would have gifted to them.

seenitall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362572#Comment_122362572

Well, a problem presents when the non-slaves the slaves are trying to enslave would rather die (and kill) than let themselves be enslaved. A SMO is what the doctor ordered in that case.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361840#Comment_122361840

I don't understand… I'm comparing Russian military deaths in Putin's 3 day special military operation to Soviet Union military deaths in the greatest war in the history of mankind. Are you saying the two wars don't bear comparison for the sake of contextualising the number of Russian soldiers killed in Putin's folly?

I'm not being smart btw, maybe I've taken your post up wrong. I just think as the war drags on, and Russian deaths mount, there comes a point where even a Russian observer would have to say "hang on, we've already suffered [x]% of total military deaths from WW2?!?!".

Even the most brutal conflicts of the late 20th century in Europe or involving Russia - e.g. Yugoslavia, Chechnya, Afghanistan - which are remembered as horrifically bloody affairs, appear to pale into insignificance compared to military deaths already suffered by Russia in Ukraine.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362309#Comment_122362309

You have a point, but I do see it (the hospital) making sense as a worthwhile target from pov of a military and a leadership with no morals at all and a feeling of total impunity (if you can put yourself in that mindset).

As regards "blowback", as you said Ukraine might gain sympathy and more defensive weapons from allies (air defence) but I think perhaps Russia/Putin do not really care much about that and have become certain now that these attacks won't ever result in delivery of more offensive weapons for Ukraine, or the last US/NATO self imposed "red lines" on their support getting rubbed out.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361060#Comment_122361060

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-WnVVUDbo

I think a scolding closer to this would be more appropriate for vlad.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361938#Comment_122361938

Russia repeatedly targeted the hospital in Mariupol. They have targeted health infrastructure, health workers, ambulances throughout the entire course of the war.

They do this so systematically and frequently there's a wikipedia page up about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_strikes_on_hospitals_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

"As of 4 April 2024, WHO verified 1682 attacks on health care in Ukraine, resulting in 128 deaths and 288 injuries of medical personnel and patients.[5]"

"As of 10 July 2024 Physicians for Human Rights "Attacks on Health Care in Ukraine" website counted 1442 attacks on health care facilities, out of which 742 destroyed hospitals and clinics, killing 210 health workers.[6]"

They targeted hospitals extensively in Syria, involved with Assad in over 300 attacks on them.

It's part of their doctrine. They also do "double tap" attacks, the second hit coming when rescue workers are at the site.

Whether or not they hit the children's hospital in Kyiv on purpose is rather besides the point when they are systematically doing it whilst invading the country

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362857#Comment_122362857

Even Russians themselves recognise their own military's strategy in targeting hospitals and medical facilities.

It's like a bold child there's never been anyone to say no you can't do that. Putin says watch me. And then watch me use the misinformation campaign to deny it using my useful idiots. Time after time after time again.

http://themoscowtimes.com/2024/07/09/make-no-mistake-destroying-hospitals-is-part-of-the-kremlins-strategy-a85653

Sultan of Bling

Norway giving 6 F16s to Ukraine.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0710/1459092-nato-summit-washington/

Luna84

Since so many claimed I was lying about that missile hitting the hospital. Well someone happened to be filming it and it is a AIM-120 air defence missile from the NASAMS system.

https://streamable.com/onvifh?src=player-page-share

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361840#Comment_122361840

The total figure of Russian dead in WW2 is thought to be in the region of 27 million, comprising of 8.7 military dead, and 19 million civilian deaths. This is the Western version, but its disputed by Russia, who claim 14 million war dead, not including civilian's killed during the war, or in Stalins purges after the war, which numbered more than the western figure of 19 million, maybe even a further 10 million +.

jmreire

Actually the Islamic version of hell appeals to me as the best place for Putin and his regime. They portray hell as being a river of molten lava, into which Putin and his ilk are destined to float in for eternity. Thats a good one to start with I think anyway.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

Even if your conspiracy theory nonsense were were true. And I'm not for a second conceding it is.

It still doesn't address the fact that there would be no need for the air defence missiles flying around Kiev civilian areas if RUSSIA WERE NOT BOMBING CIVILIAN AREAS.

It's an inescapable fact that you've yet to grapple with and have avoided at every turn. It's honestly disgusting to watch. Absolutely vile post.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

They've identified over 30 fragments of a Russian KH-101 from the site so far. Also, the video footage identifies it as a KH-101.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363621#Comment_122363621

So they say. They are a corrupt nation I showed proof there of the missile and it's not Russian.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

To large for a AIM 120 … looks more lik a kalibr

Steviemak7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

This is actual proof that its not an air defense missile.

Russian doublespeak in full view.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363633#Comment_122363633

No you didn't.

Anybody genuinely concerned about corruption would be criticising Russia not Ukraine. Evidently you don't, it is just obvious Russian propaganda and atrocity denial you are peddling.

One of the reasons Russia illegally invaded Ukraine was because Ukraine was trying to escape its corrupt orbit, to reform itself to meet standards for EU membership.

So clearly it is Russian, and they corrupt everything. They corrupt people too and get them to spread disinformation on the internet about their atrocities.

And the hospital attack is one of those atrocities.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363633#Comment_122363633

You've shown proof of nothing except that you support Russia. A literal apologist for verified genocide and war crimes.

You'll be remembered as such in years to come when Ukraine has dealt with and left your Nazi-esque buddies to implode in their own tinpot dictatorship **** hole of a country. That is all.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363634#Comment_122363634

And on a related note, an AIM 120 has a 20kg warhead designed to take down a relatively delicate aircraft. The Kalibr has a 500kg warhead designed to do considerable damage to hardened ground-based targets. I think we can all see with our own eyes which warhead is more likely to have caused the damage to the children's hospital. More proof of Luna84's lies and dishonesty.

Kalyke

I am sure there are some on here who could identify this?

Roald Dahl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363471#Comment_122363471

I wish for Mr. Putin, following on from the full collapse and unconditional surrender of Russia, to be rescued out of the resultant chaos and delivered into the safekeeping of the CIA. Mr. Putin would then be whisked away under the cover of darkness, in the interests of the discretion that is befitting a man of his standing and calibre, and treated to the lavish luxury of a six-month all-inclusive stay, à la Jim Prideaux in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. I believe Mr. Putin would appreciate the cosseting and attentive nature of such a sojourn. Indeed, it would be a tonic! It would be just like in former times, but Mr. Putin would now be the guest and no longer have to burden himself in playing the role of host.

Mr. Putin would then, fully rejuvenated, with a spring in his step and fire in his belly, be afforded every opportunity to make a case for himself and showcase his passions and vision, with the tribunal at The Hague as his enraptured audience.

He deserves no less.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363753#Comment_122363753

I'm pretty sure that's a mouse pointer…

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

Just an fyi, the Bellingcat osint community have used such footage to confirm it was a Russian weapon.. Bellingcat have a proven track record of identifying weaponry meanwhile you seem to be spouting claims from sources you don't wish to share. So yes, you are lying and don't seem to want to deal in evidence. Naturally you avoided responding to posters such as myself that posted verifiable data on it.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2024/07/09/russian-missile-identified-in-kyiv-childrens-hospital-attack/

SchrodingersCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363418#Comment_122363418

If we look at screenshots of your video:

You can clearly see a turbofan on the rear end on the bottom. The NASAMS does not have this. You can see two long wings, which the Kh-101 has, and the stubby nose.

For reference, here is a Kh101 missile:

Here is a NASAMS missile:

References:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2024/07/09/russian-missile-identified-in-kyiv-childrens-hospital-attack/

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-ukraine-did-not-bomb-a-hospital-in-kyiv/a-69608363

In case there is still some confusion that this missile is somehow not a Russian Kh-101:

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362857#Comment_122362857

Russia systemically targeted hospitals in Syria. The UN provided them GPS data of hospitals to designate them as safe zones and they used the info to deliberately target them.

francois

Dear Luna84, PFO, thanks

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364163#Comment_122364163

I think the approach they'll follow is disappear after a few more posts then return again after a month with fresh claims. It's pretty predictable.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363893#Comment_122363893

Is that a NATO mouse pointer or a Russian one? lol.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363809#Comment_122363809

After which, he should be placed the equivalent of one of America's super-max institutions. With the proviso that one wall of the cell be a large TV screen, showing on a continuous loop all of the destruction he was responsible for, while listening to all of Solovyov's, Simonyans and Medvedev's TV rants. A full-size pic of Prigozhin (or maybe better still, full size statue?? complete with sledgehammer) adorning another wall of the cell. Actually, I'd settle for some kind of coup, where Putin was deposed and incarcerated in the Black Dolphin prison that would be OK too. but creme de la creme would have to be Putin captured by Ukraine…

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363633#Comment_122363633

Well, if that's what constitutes proof for you, then you must live in a world of huge windows, where everyone can see you coming a mile off.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364178#Comment_122364178

Yep, that's how the readers from the Book Of Tankie operate. Throw wild accusations around, deny deny deny with a neck harder than a jockey's bollocks, try to pass off Russian screwups/atrocities* as Ukraine/NATO/BioNazis, avoid direct questions that their catechism doesn't cover, then skulk away, to return around a month later to throw more wild and different accusations, while completely forgetting what wild accusations went before. Rinse, repeat.

That's their general MO, a timeline usually only interrupted when a major Russian screwup kicks off and they're called to action, though in such cases it can take time for them to update the book. EG the Coup that never happened.

What we've not seen much of here is the other goto for the above lot; shouting about Russophobia.

*imho this was more of a screwup. It's pretty clear at this stage Russian targeting is remarkably crap at any sort of long range. It's one reason why they go for bigger payloads, in the hope of hitting something. Western systems tend to have smaller payloads because they also tend to be far more precise so don't need the blast more and hope you hit a target. A WW2 equivalent might be the precision and smaller payload of a dive bombing Stuka compared to dropping the full bomb bay of a stack of B-17's. The US was consistently hitting targets much more precisely in the first Gulf War than Russia can seem to manage 30 years later.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364932#Comment_122364932

BioNazis

Thanks, needed a new band name

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365137#Comment_122365137

And here's the inspiration for a song or two.

Russians are a different people to the rest of the world - says the russian article. And don't want to live long. They want to die like sheep.

http://newizv.ru/news/2024-07-10/rodilsya-nemnogo-poterpel-umer-pochemu-v-rossii-ne-hotyat-dolgo-zhit-431802

This study was paid for by the Russian Happiness Project. The poorer you are. The younger you want to die.

kowloon

Is it true that Twitter has taken down Bellingcat's posts about the children's hospital?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363633#Comment_122363633

Tell us @Luna84 , do you believe if you lie often enough and brazenly enough it somehow becomes true?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366427#Comment_122366427

Appears to be back up, honestly suspect it's due to terrible automation.

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1811112080491389316?t=3JzHLScyYHZ_w5AAySwN6w&s=19

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366471#Comment_122366471

If Luna considers Ukraine a corrupt nation, what do they consider Russia to be?