Russia-Ukraine War

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438303#Comment_122438303

There was no coup. Thats a Russian lie.

Anybody who at this stage doesnt know is worse between Russia who illegally invaded Ukraine and Ukraine the victims is just putting forward a bad faith argument or is entierely duped by Russia lies.

Multiple posters have engaged with your previous posts.

You run away from the posts explaining this to you, don't engage with the points or questions put to you, disappear then return with more feigned ignorance or feigned playing the victim. Rinse and repeat. Previous posts gone into a memory hole.

Those are not the actions of someone genuinely here to discuss and open to information from other posters.

The views you have expressed remarkably align with Russian social media propaganda cues. W

But hey every time you hit and run with these posts about a half dozen posts appear detailing how Russia is in the wrong, their invasion is illegal as is how they fight the war with war crimes and atrocities. How they employ Nazi mercenary scum to do their dirty work - They are called Wagner group. Don't pretend you don't know any of the above or it hasnt already been put to you on the thread - you aren't fooling anyone.

Keep up the good work.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438118#Comment_122438118

You could have just wrote “Russian” in short 🤣

vixdname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432776#Comment_122432776

Bit of a broad statement there chief - "Most people have zero interest".

Perhaps in your social circles there may not be must interest but certainly in mine and many others not just here but world wide the Olympics garners huge interest, especially the athletics phase which starts in the next few days.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439033#Comment_122439033

Also, there are athletes from Russia and Belarus competing, under neutral flag, no team events.
Ukraine is there as a full member, competing in team events.
I think for sure there would normally be a significant amount of interest in Russia for the Olympic sports.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439067#Comment_122439067

Complaints were lodged and ignored by French and IOC as most of these “neutral” Russian athletes have publicly posted on social media and Russian tv in support of war, often smiling while at sporting events with the Zwastika in the background

Was discussed here couple days ago

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7lAU5mkZgbTR2W5x9pNmBh?si=1nUqpUrjQ5Gb_TaSr96uPw

Anyways Russian summer offensive has officially failed, probably be discussed in depth on todays podcast episode

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1817602393267134787

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439067#Comment_122439067

I think Russia/USSR is 2nd or 3rd on the all time medal table. The Olympics is definitely a big deal in Russia. Those individual athletes should have been banned as well. None of this neutral flag BS.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438303#Comment_122438303

How dare Ukraine for wanting to be... Ukraine.

thatsdaft

She might want to avoid windows now, surprisingly direct for such a senior official

https://twitter.com/jaanikamerilo/status/1817802601968099332

Meanwhile Russian Navy reinventing the Nazi salute now

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1817851913766903992

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438379#Comment_122438379

'Ukrainian regime' - this is the easiest how to identify a pro-putin retard. they are trying very hard to camouflage themselves as innocent 'just-asking-questions' turd, but sooner rather than later 'Ukrainian regime' has to be mentioned and cover is blown.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122434074#Comment_122434074

But when you came into the thread first a few months back you were just asking questions? Trying to understand the situation? And we're supposed to believe this fiction of you having a very vocal argument about the war way back in 2022? Did you develop amnesia in the meantime?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you just made all of that up.

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432339#Comment_122432339

You mean like you just did?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439577#Comment_122439577

Elvira was going to leave the country when Putin took his boys army across into Ukraine. She knew they were done for by the figures.

Meanwhile Sabine Higgins on the end of the ship there saluting Putin.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440062#Comment_122440062

Putin apparently likes her and forced her to stay in

Dictatorships have incredible capital and monetary controls but even those are being exhausted, she's either committing suicide by window or she's a very brave lady

bilbot79

What do folks think the mystery plot was where the Kremlin phoned the US and the US told Ukraine to desist?

Roald Dahl

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1817885249210056747

Let us hope this "sequel" evolves into a very long-running "franchise"!

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440173#Comment_122440173

Probably a plot to kill Putin

The Americans must have pointed out that like Hitler at end of WW2 he is more useful alive as he just keeps making dumb decisions

Say my name

The drinking water trucked into Chelyabinsk after a dam broke due to most likely maintenance neglected and heavy rains.

http://twitter.com/Sota_Vision/status/1817255691243163693

engineerws

Just came across this today.

https://www.rtbf.be/article/battez-vous-en-ukraine-les-soldats-volontaires-sont-tous-morts-ou-blesses-les-nouvelles-recrues-n-ont-pas-choisi-d-etre-la-11409058

An opinion shared by Farik, trainer and veteran: " Not everyone is cut out for combat ," he insists, playing with his bayonet, " why make people fight who don't want to? " 

The " Chemist " says he has accepted his condition. Today, it is not death that frightens him, but trauma: " I want to be able to live a normal life afterwards ," he concludes. He, Oleg and their comrades will have to face the Russians for the first time before the end of July.

I'm not sure what the point is in throwing Ukrainian postmen the military regards as useless onto the frontline. Even at this point many lives might be saved through diplomacy or at least that is my view.

thatsdaft

”Mearsheimer”

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440486#Comment_122440486

That is some pile of manure you've been posting. You need to have a long hard look at your life if you can't decipher who the bad guys in this is.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440486#Comment_122440486

The Mearsheimer guff has been discredited multiple times on this thread.
You haven't engaged with any of the rebuttals of it.
At this stage he is lock stock and barrel a mouthpiece of Russian propaganda.
Here is a rebuittal of what he gets wrong:
Will you read the post, or will you continue to trot out the transparent "I don't know anything" tactic so you can continue repeating the same Russian lies?

 perhaps the most glaring omission in Mearsheimer’s theory of the war is the role of Ukrainians themselves in determining the country’s future. 
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2023/10/john-mearsheimers-incorrect-views-on-everything

These are the same points you have on repeat since 2022.

The article you link about Ukraine and corruption dates from 2015.
At the same time, you provide zero corresponding article for corruption in Russia.
Do you care about corruption or not?
Obviously not, or you would have looked for such information, or some more recent information.
And you have in fact already (see post below) been provided more up to date info.
Yet you still go back to 2015.
Proof positive your posts are dishonest bad faith arguments.

These memory holes and feigned ignorance is a deliberate strategy for you to continue repeating the same out of date information, the same discredited sources. All the while continuing to repeat disingenuous lines like "Overall, I know very little about Russia or Ukraine."
All your are "qualified to say" is to "just ask questions".
Why are you asking the questions then?
Qualified by whom?

Faux concern about Nazis, while ignoring anything to do with Russian use of Wagner Nazi mercenary scum.
Drivel about Banderas, ignoring actual atrocities being committed by Nazis doing Russia's dirty work in Ukraine.

You dropped the same talking points last month, multiple posters rebutted them, you ignore the rebuttals and repeat them again and again.

Here's one example. A quick scan by anyone of the thread would find dozens of such examples.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265042#Comment_122265042

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440486#Comment_122440486

Putin seems to be genuinely popular according to serious commentators but maybe the elections are rigged as people claim here.

"Elections"

TheRepentent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438118#Comment_122438118

As Mike Godwin (of Godwins Law fame) astutely said :
Drawing Bayesian inferences after extensive sampling, I've determined that it's 99-percent certain that anyone who uses "woke" as pejorative will turn out to be a fuckhead. Please don't blame me for pointing this out--it's just science.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438303#Comment_122438303

If the fact that two and a half years later Ukraine are still putting up a valiant defence is "not working out" for them, then how is it working out for Russia:

1. All but 4 countries voted with Russia in the vote on the illegal referendums.
2. Russia is isolated diplomatically
3. Russia is cut off from direct trade with its largest export customer - the eu
4. Russia are outed as human rights violators
5. Russian army is outed as incapable of fighting a 21st century war.
6. Russia will be hated by Ukrainians for generations to come
7. Russia has largely lost all its arms export customers
8. Eastern Europe is rearming to defend itself against Russia
9. China's plans have been kyboshed because of Russian bumbling
10. It has been confirmed that Putin can indeed play chess in the 4th dimension. Unfortunately though whatever dimension he's playing it in looks incompetent and despicable in the real world.

So all things being considered, Ukraine are in better shape than Russia. Russia might be taking the odd town on the battlefield at an enormous cost, but any hopes they had of leading the multipolar world are now gone. That is not to say that we aren't heading towards if not already in a multi polar world, it's just that Russia will not be one of those poles.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440486#Comment_122440486

You claim to know little about Ukraine/Russia, yet you are producing the same script we've all seen here before many times.

This propaganda is so well known we have a bingo card for it and you're hitting them all one by one.

Anyway, here's yet another brief explainer.

Mearsheimer

Mearsheimer has highly controversial views, including pro-Russian, which have been widely criticised and debunked, for example:

https://euideas.eui.eu/2022/07/11/john-mearsheimers-lecture-on-ukraine-why-he-is-wrong-and-what-are-the-consequences/

Coup

There was no "coup" in 2014. Yanukovych, the Ukrainian leader, was elected on a pro-EU ticket. He raised a lot of red flags with his corruption but the last straw came when he u-turned on a pro-EU decision sending hundreds of thousands of protesters into the streets. He ordered his forces to shoot them resulting in deaths. Later he fled, the Ukrainian parliament removed him, and he was discovered to have been obscenely corrupt.

https://www.voanews.com/a/ukrainian-maidan-was-not-a-coup/6741774.html

Corruption

Ukraine has indeed had issues with corruption, but they are making systematic efforts to tackle it. Russia in contrast is highly corrupt and makes no effort.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq55rpqlp31o

Cherry-picking atrocities and incidents from the invasion.

Apart from some isolated incidents, Ukrainian forces have been highly disciplined and take extreme lengths to avoid civilian casualties and incidents. They treat Russian POWs well.

In contrast Russian forces systematically target civilians, and civilian infrastructure such as hospitals and schools. There are thousands of reports of torture and murder of civilians, as well as systematic abuse, torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/russians-committing-rape-widespread-torture-ukrainians-report-finds/story?id=103465772

Nazi's

Ukraine, like every country, including Russia has a far right contingent. As mentioned, the far right received only a few percent of the vote in the election in Ukraine. Russia uses a mixture of propaganda and misinformation in order to amplify it to an extreme level. The equivalent of claiming that all of Ireland is comprised of "IRA terrorists".

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-5y1BhC-ARIsAAM_oKkopQIUo-6J60Iq_zelKdcv_ZqRZ2STR-5O_ZqWJY-MrNvumeCdvGkaAl-zEALw_wcB

Russian democracy.

In the nineties Russia briefly flirted with democracy, however since Putin got into power, freedoms have eroded and the country has gone from an autocracy to a dictatorship. Real opposition are threatened, put under house arrest, detained, poisoned or murdered. People who protest now, even in minor ways, can be imprisoned for years. He continues to operate behind a facade of democracy. He does enjoy a core of support in Russia but it's impossible to gauge how truly popular he is, not that it's relevant as he has cemented absolute power.

"Both sides"

Already explained. Note how you ignored the point and repeated the same blind argument.

"I just want the war to end"

Putin can end the war at any time by simply turning around. Appeasers and anti-Western individuals want the war to "end" by rewarding Putin's invasion with land.

And finally

"I don't know much about Russia or Ukraine" and "I just came across this today"

Certain individuals claim to know very little about the situation, yet by coincidence they are armed with the same preset links and tropes you've been using. We see this a lot among revisionists and people with set world views. To use an analogy it's the equivalent of someone claiming "not to know much" about the Holocaust, yet using a preset group of links and talking points only used by deniers.

It's an instant red flag.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440486#Comment_122440486

How do you know very little about Ukraine and Russia but know not only the name of a relatively obscure Ukrainian nationalist from the 80+ years ago, but also know that that is a word used by Russians to denigrate Ukrainians?

vswr

"I am concerned citizen, who doesn't know much about the war, all I want is peace"

Proceeds to dump every piece of Russian propaganda with regards to the war..

You're hilarious @engineerws :-D

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441179#Comment_122441179

This ^

Polar101

My vatnik bingo card is on fire today.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441614#Comment_122441614

So is a German chemicals factory

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1817911899113095583

14 injured

How many have to die before EU countries get serious about the threat that Russia and Russians are to civilised countries

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439389#Comment_122439389

They should all be banned along with all Israeli athletes too to send a clear message to genocidal governments

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441614#Comment_122441614

And Kursk

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1817984215293755886

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441633#Comment_122441633

I’m holding my fire on this one. BASF’s Ludwigshafen plant (which is larger, and arguably prettier than the entire city of Ludwigshafen) has had similar issues before, not least in 2016, when a worker cut into a pipe containing flammable liquid with an angle grinder, with predictable results. I still have the emails from my late mom, who used to work across the Rhine in Mannheim, in which she described the resulting explosions rocking her workplace. Back then, the issue was attributed to a lax safety attitude on behalf of BASF management. I can post screenshots of those emails if you want, but they’re in German.

Speaking of which, local newspapers “Rheinpfalz”, “Mannheimer Morgen” and local TV station SWR now reporting 18 casualties, all described as light injuries. Apparently, some sort of “organic solvent” started leaking in one of the buildings, which triggered the explosions: https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/ludwigshafen/knall-und-rauchwolke-ueber-der-basf-100.html

rogber

Interesting details on the proxy wars elsewhere, including the Mali incident:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/29/ukraine-military-intelligence-claims-involvement-in-deadly-wagner-ambush-in-mali

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441135#Comment_122441135

I'd suspect @engineerws will disappear for a few weeks now...

purplepanda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442801#Comment_122442801

The cowardly apologist for murder rape & gonocide has turned up on the Venezuela election thread.

Far right & hard left all reading from the same hymn sheet

TheValeyard

North Korean tech starting to appear

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1818206522582716724

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440562#Comment_122440562

'Just happened to stumble across this random piece of media output from a Belgian source". Yeah, like that 'just' happens. And it 'just' so happens that it fits your narrative. I'd say your search history would tell a lot.

I've more time for people who own their biases on internet discussions, rather than hide behind anonymous usernames and gaslight & troll away to undermine any prospect of honest discussion.

All the same, great credit to you for 'just wanting peace to save lives'. How noble of an anonymous internet poster just here to ask questions and inform themselves.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443772#Comment_122443772

Took their sweet time to start rolling out the North Korean crap. That M-2018 veichle appears to be a locally made update of the Soviet tech they cloned in previous decades. The "Bulsae-4" Anti-Tank missles appear to also be a retooling of a Chinese weapon.

In the right hands it might be dangerious little Tank-Killer. It's essentially a pile of Wish.com Javelins packed above an anfibious armored car.

But this will be the first time they've been tried in an actual war. They also might be little useful beyond displaying them in Pyongyang parades.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440132#Comment_122440132

But also, she is a very capable lady professionally, and recognised as such in the west.

thatsdaft

There has been several videos of large Russian assaults (dozens of tanks and dozens of other vehicles including motorcycles and buggies) posted on X

Each time they get absolutely demolished and hammered

Not posting here, but in case there is an impression here that war is in a lul, if anything it’s not hard to see how the daily visually confirmed equipment figures are so dire for Russians, complete bloodbath and sheer stupidity of throwing men and equipment against well organised defences

Dohnjoe

Another combined 1.7 billion in arms and munitions going to Ukraine shortly curtesy of the US. A lot of good stuff in there.

Munitions for National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS)
Short- and medium-range air defense munitions
RIM-7 missiles for air defense
Electronic Warfare equipment
Ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS)
155mm and 105mm artillery rounds
120mm mortar rounds
Precision aerial munitions
Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles
Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems
Small arms
Explosives material and demolitions equipment and munitions
Secure communications systems
Commercial satellite imagery services	and
Spare parts, maintenance and sustainment support, and other ancillary equipment.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444194#Comment_122444194

Fresh meat to the grinder seems unrelenting from the Russian side. I do wonder how much those heading towards the front understand about what awaits them? Do they think that Ukraine has the same weaponry, or are weaker, thus those racing towards the front on motors bikes think that victory is just one more push away?

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444411#Comment_122444411

The same point was made recently on Ukraine the Latest podcast

People might think that the war is in some WW1 style trench warfare stalemate but it’s far from it, some of the footage is brutal

There is constant back and forth, tho with very slow gains by Russians of meters here and there, but the attrition on the Russian side is insane, as soon as any number of tanks appear to attack they get absolutely swatted out of existence by drones and artillery and mines

Most of the Russian gains have been in sectors with least trained Ukranian defenders so that’s one area the west can definitely help with, there is no lack of bodies however unlike some assert, now that equipment and ammo is flowing the key issue seems to be training and expertise

It almost seems like Putin has ordered any gains anywhere however little strategic or tactical importance in hope of having boots on ground there if there is a ceasefire and lines are frozen

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444480#Comment_122444480

Regardless of what Putin orders I'm still amazed by the Russian forces willingness to ride into the grinder. If Russia are recruiting mercenaries from poor countries are they telling them that victory and pay await at the other side of the ridge?

There's no way Moskovites have their kids sent to the fronts but if Putin runs out of imported fighters then will Moskovites be as willing to enter the slaughter house?

At some stage the futility of the war will be inescapable domestically, are we near that tipping point?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444601#Comment_122444601

I think we should look to WWI for the answers there. In WWI, Russia was militarily unprepared and the Tsar was already an unpopular leader. Thy still managed to tough things out for 2 and a half years before they had a regime change and chucked another few hundred thousand lives away after that before finally deciding they had enough of war and went home.

Militarily this time around they were better prepared and Putin doesn’t have the same level of dissatisfaction at home. So I think it will be at least another year before serious cracks appear domestically. Even then if Putin is removed, there’s no guarantee that their bloodlust will be satiated.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444822#Comment_122444822

The notion of greater Russia will outlive Putin, but unlike a century ago they have fewer people to match their outdated mostly Soviet era arsenal.

I really honestly didn't believe Putin would attempt an outright invasion as it would be economic suicide, we're here now over two years later watching the Russian body pile stack up at a far greater and accelerating rate than the defenders.

And even if Putin was toppled tomorrow how would we in Europe ensure we're not back in the same position in another few generations?

eoinbn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444222#Comment_122444222

The majority of that 1.7bn(1.5bn) is not short term aid, it is for long term orders for equipment and ammo that will not be delivered anytime soon.

The fear is that if Trump wins in November then most of that aid will be redirected back into US stocks.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/27/ukraine-nato-membership?

An open letter to Nato

On 8 July, the eve of Nato’s 75th anniversary summit, a Russian missile
struck Ukraine’s largest children’s hospital, destroying, among other
sections, its cancer center, hematology lab and surgical transplant
unit. Russia launched 40 missiles at cities across Ukraine that day, killing more than 40 people, wounding numerous others, and demonstrating yet again that there are no legal, political or moral
lines it won’t cross in its determination to conquer Ukraine.

As Ukrainian doctors, rescue workers and volunteers evacuated child
patients, many of them still in hospital gowns and attached to IVs, from
the bombed-out hospital, heads of state from Nato’s 32 member countries
arrived in Washington DC to discuss Russia’s war in Ukraine and how to
strengthen Ukraine’s defense. Although they affirmed that “Ukraine’s
future is in Nato”, and that the country’s path to the alliance is
“irreversible”, Ukraine’s potential membership was once again deferred:
the Washington summit declaration stated that an invitation for Ukraine
to join Nato would come “when Allies agree, and conditions are met”.

The allies do not yet agree. Nato membership for Ukraine is supported by
some European member states – in particular, the Baltic and Nordic
states and Poland. At the same time, key powers like the US and Germany
remain opposed. The arguments against Ukraine’s Nato membership, which
have been proffered repeatedly since Russia’s attack on Ukraine began in
2014, ultimately reiterate the same concern: that any step, however
small, would be seen as threatening Russia’s security, and would
therefore provoke greater conflict. In reality, Russia’s calm acceptance
of Finland and Sweden, two of its neighbors who applied to join Nato in
2022, has put the lie to the claim that Russia is on a hair trigger
about Nato drawing any closer. It is time to acknowledge that Russia
opposes Ukraine’s Nato membership only because it would obstruct
Russia’s continued aggression against that country.

The
focus on Russia’s alleged “Nato expansion anxiety”, and attempts to
appease it, ignore Russia’s genocidal propaganda and systematic war
crimes in occupied territory of Ukraine, including massacres, mass rape
and torture. Russia’s actions demonstrate a clear intent to destroy
Ukraine as a nation, rather than to alleviate its own security concerns.
The idea that extending security guarantees to Ukraine would further
incentivize Russia’s brutal prosecution of this war is unfounded, since Russia is fully determined to destroy Ukraine and needs no additional motivation to do so.

Secondly, it is a fact that Russia has not attacked a single Nato member. Instead, it has threatened, invaded and occupied non-member
countries: Georgia, Moldova and now Ukraine. The territorial boundary
between Nato and non-Nato countries has so far proved the only
red line that Russia has (however warily) respected, even as it breaks
numerous other international treaties and agreements. Russia’s
resurrected imperialist militarism can only be contained by the
existence of a much stronger military alliance.

Finally, attempts to appease the Kremlin fail to address Russia’s determination
to secure anti-western global power. Russia already fully controls
Belarus and has been actively forming its own alliances with China,
North Korea and Iran, which stand for the destruction of the democratic
order. Russia bombed Syrian cities to keep Bashar al-Assad (a dictator
who used chemical weapons against civilians) in power. Russia supports
terrorist organizations globally, including the Taliban and Hamas, and
may soon send missiles to Yemen’s Houthis.

Assuming that appeasing Russia’s demands will resolve the war, or somehow
de-escalate it, is naive. Impunity for Russia’s war crimes in Syria,
Georgia and Ukraine has only emboldened the Kremlin. The question of
Russia’s escalation is thus not “if”, but “how far?” How far will its
escalation be allowed to go before democracies muster the political
backbone to halt it? Western democracy must stand in unity and
determination against the growing threat to global security represented
by the Kremlin.

There is still time for the most powerful military alliance in the world to make a historically and
politically justified decision to neutralize the existential threat
posed to Ukraine by Russia. Sacrificing Ukraine in the interest of
avoiding a Nato-Russia war only increases the likelihood of such war,
and of further wars, as Russia will conclude that Nato’s vaunted article
5 may be negotiable, if a broader war can be averted.

Inviting Ukraine to join Nato would mark a definitive step away from the
politics of appeasement and back to the rule of international law and
protection of human rights. A decision to extend security guarantees to
Ukraine would not only safeguard the Ukrainian state, via the only means
yet shown to be successful, but would also reassert Nato and the
western democracies as effective political agents on the world stage.

Victoria Somoff, Dartmouth College

Sarah D Phillips, Indiana University

Sophia Wilson, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, president, AAUS

Oxana Shevel, Tufts University

Maria Popova, McGill University

Vitaly Chernetsky, University of Kansas/University of Basel, president, ASEEES

Amelia Glaser, UC San Diego

Emily Channell-Justice, Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University

Yuliya V Ladygina, The Pennsylvania State University

Giovanna Brogi, University of Milan (Italy)

Marci Shore, Yale University

Jaryna Turko Bodrock, Harvard University, Slavic bibliographer

Andreas Umland, analyst, Stockholm Centre for Eastern European Studies

Natalie Kononenko, University of Alberta, emerita

Ani Kokobobo, University of Kansas

Yuriy Gorodnichenko, University of California, Berkeley

Victoria Donovan, University of St Andrews

Katerina Sviderska, Université de Montréal

Anastasia Fomitchova, University of Ottawa

Otari Gulbani, Central European University

Abigail Scripka, Leibniz Center for Contemporary History, Potsdam

Michael Alpert, US National Heritage fellow

Mayhill Fowler, Stetson University

Kristina Hook, Kennesaw State University

Olga Bertelsen, Tiffin University

Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern, the Crown Family professor, Northwestern University

John Vsetecka, Nova Southeastern University

Nataliia Goshylyk, University of California, Berkeley

Oksana Lutsyshyna, University of Texas at Austin

Jonathan Stillo, Wayne State University

Natalia Khanenko-Friesen, University of Alberta, Canada

Jessica Robbins-Panko, Wayne State University

Halyna Herasym, University College Dublin

Ivan Kozachenko, University of Warsaw

Polina Vlasenko, University of Oxford

Valeria Sobol, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Anna Chebotarova, University of Oslo

Robert Romanchuk, Florida State University

Oksana Malanchuk, University of Michigan

Sofiya Asher, Indiana University, Bloomington

Olga Kostyrko, independent researcher

Ievgeniia Kopytsia, University of Genoa

Kseniya Oksamytna, City, University of London

Mariya Lesiv, Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador

Jars Balan, University of Alberta

Steve Swerdlow, University of Southern California

Jessica Storey-Nagy, Indiana University Bloomington

Marko Pavlyshyn, Monash University

Ilona Solohub, VoxUkraine

Maria Rewakowicz, University of Washington

Yuliya Komska, Dartmouth College

Olena Nikolayenko, Fordham University

Svitlana Melnyk, Indiana University

Markian Dobczansky, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

Roman Ivashkiv, University of Alberta

Oleksandra Wallo, University of Kansas

Tatyana Deryugina, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Jurij Dobczansky, Library of Congress

Ana Rewakowicz, Université du Québec à Montréal, Canada

Serhii Plokhii, Harvard University

Ainsley Morse, University of California, San Diego

Bohdan Klid, University of Alberta

Mischa Gabowitsch, Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz

Viktoriia Biliaieva, University of Tartu

Anselm Schmidt, University of Tartu

Sanshiro Hosaka, International Centre for Defence and Security (Estonia)

Mart Kuldkepp, University College London

Giorgi Cheishvili, Tbilisi State University

Kaarel Vanamölder, Tallinn University

Abigail Karas, University of Nottingham

Grigore Pop-Eleches, Princeton University

Jennifer J Carroll, North Carolina State University

Ioulia Shukan, University Paris Nanterre

Nadiia Koval, Kyiv School of Economics

Franziska Davies, Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich

Paweł Dobrosielski, University of Warsaw

Anete Ušča, European University Institute

Yuliya Yurchuk, Södertörn University

Olena Palko, University of Basel

Hana Cervinkova, National University of Ireland, Maynooth

Yaroslav O Halchenko, Dartmouth College

Lia Dostlieva, independent artist

Fabian Baumann, Heidelberg University

Dmytro Khutkyy, University of Tartu

Jonathon Turnbull, University of Oxford

Yuriy Kruchak, Platform for Interdisciplinary Practice Open Place, Kyiv

Julia Sushytska, Occidental College

Sasha Dovzhyk, Index: Institute for Documentation and Exchange

Stefano Braghiroli, University of Tartu

Kateryna Botanova, Culturescapes, Basel/Kyiv

Marnie Howlett, University of Oxford

Michael Rochlitz, University of Oxford

Anastassia Fedyk, University of California, Berkeley

Yuliia Chystiakova, Université Paris Nanterre

F Benjamin Schenk, University of Basel

Marcin Jarząbek, Jagiellonian University in Kraków

Ada Wordsworth, University College London/Kharkiv and Przemyśl Project (KHARPP)

Andrii Smytsniuk, University of Cambridge

Bohdana Kurylo, University College London

Zbigniew Wojnowski, University of Oxford

Jonathan Lahey Dronsfield, Institute of Philosophy, Czech Academy of Sciences

Michał Murawski, University College London

Olesya Khromeychuk, Ukrainian Institute London

Uilleam Blacker, University College London

Viktoriya Sereda, Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin (VUIAS)/Institute of Ethnology, National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine

Oleksandr Zabirko, University of Regensburg

Elżbieta Kwiecińska, Institute of Slavic Studies, Polish Academy of Sciences

Gražina Bielousova, Vilnius University Institute of International Relations and Political Science

Kateryna Volochniuk, University of St Andrews

Vlada Vazheyevskyy, University of St Andrews

Anne Lange, Tallinn University

Martin Aust, University of Bonn

Filip Kostelka, European University Institute

Oksana Prokhvatilova, VN Karazin Kharkiv National University

Olga Onuch, University of Manchester

Daria Mattingly, University of Chichester

Mišo Kapetanović, Austrian Academy of Sciences

Emily Finer, University of St Andrews

Liliya Morska, University of Rzeszów, Poland

Matthew Kott, Uppsala University, Sweden

Margus Ott, Tallinn University, Estonia

Eugene Finkel, Johns Hopkins University

Emma Mateo, New York University

Marc Elie, Centre national de la recherche scientifique, France

Henry Hale, George Washington University

Rory Finnin, University of Cambridge

Nicola Camilleri, German Historical Institute, Rome

James Hodson, CEO, AI for Good Foundation/Economists for Ukraine

Kataryna Wolczuk, University of Birmingham/Chatham House

Jody LaPorte, University of Oxford

George Soroka, Harvard University

Ksenya Kiebuzinski, University of Toronto

Panayiotis Xenophontos, University of Oxford

Tetyana Lokot, Dublin City University

Jan Kubik, Rutgers University

Heather Fielding, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire

Alexandra Pavliuc, University of Oxford

Hanna Oliinyk, University College London

Victoria Juharyan, Johns Hopkins University

Shaun M Byrnes, retired US senior foreign service officer, deputy chief of mission, US embassy Kyiv, 1992-94

Michael M Naydan, The Pennsylvania State University

Olena Synchak, Ukrainian Catholic University

Mark Beissinger, Princeton University

Inna Melnykovska, Central European University

Alyssa Dinega Gillespie, independent scholar

Joanna Niżyńska, Indiana University

Pavel Khazanov, Rutgers University

Mykola Riabchuk, PEN Ukraine

Karsten Lunze, Boston University

Jesse Driscoll, University of California, San Diego

Matthew Pauly, Michigan State University

Iwa Kołodziejska, University of Warsaw

Elise Giuliano, Columbia University

Yana Prymachenko, Princeton University

Mikhail Alexseev, San Diego State University

Oksana
Nesterenko, executive director, Anti-corruption Research and
Educational Center of National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy
(NaUKMA), Kyiv, Ukraine

Nicola Camilleri, German Historical Institute, Rome

Oleh Kotsyuba, Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442472#Comment_122442472

Didn’t take long

https://twitter.com/FlyingDutchPall/status/1817987400590877160