Russia-Ukraine War

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532927#Comment_122532927

He's the same man that supports Putin and the Kremlin. The same Putin and the Kremlin that floods the EU with refugees through conflict in Africa, Syria and Ukraine. The same Putin and the Kremlin that pays warlords to ferry migrants across the med into the EU. The same Putin and Kremlin that tells migrants in their home countries of the benefit system in each country. Then ferries them to airports and puts them on a plane for the EU and advises them what to do. The same Putin and the Kremlin that flies them in military planes to Russia and Belarus and pushes them on and across the borders of Poland and the Baltic countries. The same Putin and the Kremlin who've organised Orban to allow Russian passport holders passage through Hungary and into the EU as part of their continued war against the EU since 2014 by using migrants. And these migrants are granted Russian passports if they'll continue into the EU which they dump anyway in the EU.

Orban is always anti EU. Using migrants was his stick though. But if he never supported Putin it would never have been half the situation it is now. He's publicly throwing his toys out of the pram, under orders from Putin and he's just threatened to bring in all the migrants through Russia with Russian passports that he's now gotten the paper work through. This is his weapon and Putin's to use against the EU. It always was. But domestically Orban won elections on it. But internationally he was supporting Putin to ratchet up the migrant situation to keep himself in power while talking from his backside publicly.

He's a dangerous dope who gets away with hell. Russian stooge.

zv2

A few reports about this

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1826514513073492256

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533046#Comment_122533046

He's an absolute tramp but are you surprised Russia employs this strategy when the rate of deportations is tiny. They have Europe by the balls in this regard. Hardline approach by the EU leads to stability in Europe and Russia's dirty tactics won't win.

Dubh Geannain

This is sensational. What will the actual number be I wonder -

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1826671743576277473?t=8o7aymq76DMHAidXJJEFhw&s=19

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533410#Comment_122533410

Looks like uke had a mole within their allies and now they're operating in secret

junkyarddog

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1826726201647308998

The gloves are slowly coming off.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533531#Comment_122533531

The danger in all of these recent Ukrainian success's is that the response from Putin also increases in its requirement for retribution - both in actuality on the ground and in propaganda.

SchrodingersCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533589#Comment_122533589

Not really. There is more of a danger if Ukraine sits back.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533589#Comment_122533589

How, suicide by nukes? Russia is not holding anything back conventional weapons wise.

What has Ukraine to fear by even more BS?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533660#Comment_122533660

Look at how much of Ukraine Russia still occupies in the South compared to the comparative area taken around Kursk. Any success by Ukraine is to be welcomed, but the scale of this, by area is very small in comparison to the area already lost to the south and they are continuing to lose ground there. Russia can well afford to deal with the Kursk incursion slowly as they continue to make headway south. How long can Ukraine maintain their incursion at Kursk in reality…none of us know.

There was a concern raised earlier in the year the Russia could use biological and chemical weapons. It used Syria as a testing/practice ground previously for chemical weapons so it wouldn't be their first go at it.

Things can always get worse.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533610#Comment_122533610

Ukraine won't 'sit back' per se, but they will have to stop very soon in terms of their current advances in Kursk. What are their options? They aren't taking very much ground nor occupying any massive area of a front line thereby tying up major Russian forces. They can't keep marching on with such a narrow advance.

deadduck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533410#Comment_122533410

Some video of this as it continued to get pummelled;

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1826554097262068182

make sure to turn the captions on for full effect :)

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533660#Comment_122533660

and we were doing so well 😃

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533660#Comment_122533660

True. But if we're been honest, I do expect Putin to respond the only way he knows how to. Lashing out and destroying civilian infrastructure and accommodation.

I fully expect to hear horrific reports of hospitals, schools, power generation facilities, etc, to be targeted on a much larger level shortly.

Because thats just the kind of cnut he is.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533901#Comment_122533901

Again true, but tip toeing around Putin isn’t a viable strategy either… as still Children’s hospitals get targeted.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533985#Comment_122533985

The strategy Ukraine has been doing is all about defanging Putin. When they had a good chunk of Russian aircraft in range of American hardware all lined up and the US wouldn't allow them be hit. It really must have stung. Worse still when the Americans told Putin what could have happened so they moved the aircraft. Thankfully now Ukraine has their own drone manufacturing and hardware to take out Russian aircraft while lined up on the airfield without having to inform the Americans of plans. As the actor in Avatar said "How do you like when they are shooting back at you?"

Putin is beginning to realise the only way he'll have a military left is leave Ukraine. UKR put the Russian numbers at 600k lost so far. Pride and ego is still driving him to send more men to die. Pride and ego is no good if you've no airforce and navy though.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533589#Comment_122533589

Putin has already responded with everything he can. He went full tilt ages back.

Nice little narrative you are trying to push about Ukraine only invading until Russia decides it wants to stop them.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534076#Comment_122534076

Nice little narrative you are trying to push about Ukraine only invading until Russia decides it wants to stop them.

That's not correct but nice narrative you are attempting to rewrite.

Do we know what "Full tilt" is?

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532927#Comment_122532927

Aligning yourself with Orban. What possible reason would there be for that?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534113#Comment_122534113

Yes we do. We are seeing it.

Nobody drags out a 3 day war that is crippling the economy for 3 years because they are holding back the army for the laugh.

But sure look Ukraine can't sustain the assault, Russia can deal with them whenever they want, Ukraine are gaining no ground blaa blaa blaa

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534187#Comment_122534187

Nicely reworded with the 'bla blaa blaa' for that extra bit of expertise & reality.

If you read the above I'd already mentioned increased chemical warfare being another distinct possibility.

But sure look Ukraine can't sustain the assault, Russia can deal with them whenever they want, Ukraine are gaining no ground

If you really want to get in to it; what to you think Ukraine can do with the narrow corridor they've gained, march it all the way to Moscow? They're still 550 odd miles from the city of Kursk; can they maintain supply lines all that way and keep pushing? Ukraine has already stated that it has no intention of holding Russian territory currently occupied.

Russia are still making small gradual gains along the south eastern front, what use is 1,000s/kms when they are around Kursk. Pokrovsk and Chasiv Yar are teetering and would be much bigger losses to Ukraine than the small area they've gained in Kursk.

But tell me more about blaa blaa blaa. Stellar stuff.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534246#Comment_122534246

I don't think they can do much from a military point of view with the land gained. It gives them a bit of extra strike range and new defensive positions but that's about it. So far supply lines are fine and it's quite possible they just stop when that becomes a problem.

But what it has done very well is gotten Ukraine back on the front pages and has been a huge embarrassment for Putin. Wars are mostly won and lost at home and I have always believed bringing the war to the Russian people was necessary and it certainly seems to be having the desired effect.

It's not a "narrow corridor" by the way. Corridors are usually long and narrow not semi circular in shape. It's more a small foyer or lobby

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534280#Comment_122534280

But what it has done very well is gotten Ukraine back on the front pages and has been a huge embarrassment for Putin

Which was my original point if you'd bothered to read it. Propaganda is great in the short term for Ukraine; making it stick is the difficult bit. They've gained in Kursk which was a poorly defended area but are potentially about to lose bad in the south.

Gen. Gerasimov has a target on his back due to Kursk failings, that heaps pressure on him to win in the South and it looks like they'll take two key areas within days unfortunately.

Wars are mostly won and lost at home and I have always believed bringing the war to the Russian people was necessary and it certainly seems to be having the desired effect.

Wars are "won and lost" where they are being fought primarily. Sure what goes on 'at home' has some affect but that cuts both ways; Ukrainian propaganda can only do so much for so long. Ukrainian conscripts are now reportedly being rushed in to service with shorter training periods- precisely what Russia did and what we heard would be their ultimate demise, yet here we still are.

It's not a "narrow corridor" by the way. Corridors are usually long and narrow not semi circular in shape. It's more a small foyer or lobby

This isn't 'Room to improve'. They've created a narrow, given the length of the front, incursion.

'Small Foyer'….stick to the blaa blaa blaa.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534246#Comment_122534246

You are an Irish person and it's sticking in your craw about Ukraine taking Russian land. Now imagine you are Putin who surrounds himself in gold and palaces who prides himself as being the chief lead terrorist in the world who can't even defend his own country from invasion. What craw must that be?

That's what's it's all about. How much Russian land does he think it's worth sacrificing to have forces in Ukraine and not in Russia. And Ukraine look like they will take another district westwards. Before if there's going to ever be negotiations Ukraine had no strength and were the victims. Now at least they are pushing themselves to be on par with the Russian military at the negotiating table.

They lost their nuclear weapons when Russia and America took them away. As they were told in doing so they would always be a sovereign country protected by both. So they gave them up.

Now you are worried if Putin doesn't get his way that Putin will use those Ukrainian nuclear weapons back in Ukraine or the invaded parts of Russia. Ukrainians have been dealing with that threat and death since day one.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534345#Comment_122534345

You are an Irish person and it's sticking in your craw about Ukraine taking Russian land.

Before I deal with the rest show me this part….

TheValeyard

Russia appears to finally be moving huge amount of equipment and troops to Kursk.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534345#Comment_122534345

Now at least they are pushing themselves to be on par with the Russian military at the negotiating table.

They aren't on par. They are far away from being anywhere near "on-par".

We're three weeks in, they've taken a comparatively small foyer pocket in a relatively under protected area whilst at the same time they are about to lose key areas in the south (you'll note above where I said Unfortunatley, just incase you're mistaken it's 'sticking in my craw').We haven't even seen the response from Russia in any meaningful way, yet here you are saying they're all of a sudden "on-par"; you'd think Ukraine have pulled up in Red Square.

You could also read where I posted in #4821 that "Any success by Ukraine is to be welcomed" …but do go on with the "sticking in my craw" bit.

Now you are worried if Putin doesn't get his way that Putin will use those Ukrainian nuclear weapons back in Ukraine or the invaded parts of Russia.

No..I never mentioned nuclear. That's the second time that lazy fall back has been bandied about in less than 24 hours.

Dubh Geannain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534382#Comment_122534382

Yep -

https://twitter.com/secretsqrl123/status/1826776796999622832

Have to hope they get lined up in range like this -

https://twitter.com/UkraineNewsLive/status/1826766558716461108

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534280#Comment_122534280

Depending how far they push, they can hold it for a long time. They're already blowing up bridges far ahead. And with the long range weaponry they have they could stop russia from creating new crossings. If they went in with the idea of capturing land with easily defendable natural boundaries then they could hold it a very long time. And that's 3 things. It makes Putin look bad, makes him divert forces and gives negotiating leverage.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534344#Comment_122534344

A narrow corridor would be going straight out from a narrow point on the Ukrainian border and being surrounded on both sides.

That is not what they have done. They have extended the border relatively equally along the front.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534511#Comment_122534511

along that front only….the entire front is a lot bigger. This is a comparatively narrow front.

This is a salient point though…anything else?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533589#Comment_122533589

The bigger danger from Putin is showing weakness of any description! To let Putin even think that he can control the narrative in any way is to trigger an attack. Failure to respond to Putins aggression in the vain hope that he will not retaliate is a fool's notion. Hit him hard, and keep hitting him, even harder if possible. Destroy his means of attacking Ukraine is the only real way to stop Putin.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534453#Comment_122534453

An A10 brrrrrtt would be lovely here

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533901#Comment_122533901

It is indeed disgusting, we can only hope Ukraine's air defences are getting better and better and they do seem to be doing some serious damage to Russia's own equipment and capabilities particularly these past few weeks

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534529#Comment_122534529

Yes, which was where my original point was going. Ukrainian success is positive but it heaps pressure on Putin to respond.

Great if they can hit him hard and keep hitting him but it's not as simple as that. Nobody said that they shouldn't retaliate; but is it retaliation if you're losing as much as you've gained relatively simultaneously?

weisses

delete

weisses

I can argue its not even a corridor

The Suwalki gap would be a better example of a corridor.

Ukraine opened up a nearly 60 km wide and 30 km deep front which will cause a major headache for Russia to regain control of …

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534547#Comment_122534547

Nothing compared to what Ukraine will lose if Putin thinks he's winning. He has proved over and over again that any form of weakness triggers the attack mode in him. Putin will continue to carry out murderous attacks in any way,,, its what he does. But if Russians see that he is unable to defend and protect them, never mind they come to the opinion that its Putin himself is the cause of all their problems, then his days are numbered.

TheValeyard

Big boom expected

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1826910400673132649

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534591#Comment_122534591

Its like waiting for Betelgeuse to go supernova 😋

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534581#Comment_122534581

He has proved over and over again that any form of weakness triggers the attack mode in him. 

Exactly; granted he is already attacking in other areas but as another poster put it :

I do expect Putin to respond the only way he knows how to. Lashing out and destroying civilian infrastructure and accommodation.

I fully expect to hear horrific reports of hospitals, schools, power generation facilities, etc, to be targeted on a much larger level shortly.

Because thats just the kind of cnut he is.

they come to the opinion that its Putin himself is the cause of all their problems, then his days are numbered.

I don't think we're near that point just yet unfortunately.

Paddigol

In terms of Russian troop movement, you'd have to presume that the Kursk operation was intended precisely to draw this response. That it is in fact what the Ukrainians have been waiting for. And that they have detailed plans as to how to respond in turn… it would all have been strategized out before they went over the border into Kursk - what lines they're going to try and reach, where they're going to hold, what kind of resistance they're going to face, what kind of troops and equipment are likely to be sent in by Russian to counter them, from where, on what routes, in what numbers and where they're likely to set up.

You'd hope that the Ukrainian's are just biding their time to do the real damage now.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534280#Comment_122534280

over last few days Telegraph, ISW and more hilariously Darth Putin (links to both on previous pages) made the observations that Putin wants to hide, dismiss and downplay the scale of disaster that Kursk 2.0 has been, setting deadlines that are months away and pouring in conscripts kept in check by Chechens

and sure enough like night follows days and flies are attracted to 💩 we have the official line of Kursk being insignificant being replayed here

and we endup with silly comparisons of square meters per day in back arse of Donbass to dozens of square kilometres per day

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534547#Comment_122534547

"Heaps pressure on Putin to respond"

How much more heaping does he need. The big tough strong man has just had his country invaded, his people living in displacement camps and drones taking out his infrastructure.

Why has he not taken the gloves off his supposedly overwhelming military who can "take it back whenever they want"

Nukes, chemical weapons in Europe, conscripting western Russians. He won't dare do any of those things and if he was willing he would have done it during one of the many many many red line crossings.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534701#Comment_122534701

How much more heaping does he need. The big tough strong man has just had his country invaded, his people living in displacement camps and drones taking out his infrastructure.

That's my point…..he's just had his country invaded…That increases pressure on him.

"take it back whenever they want"

I never said this.

You've also ignore the rest of what I and others have written that may be seen in an unfortunate backlash. And, the bits where Ukraine are losing ground, potentially more important/strategic.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534580#Comment_122534580

suwalki "gap" is 100km wide

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534739#Comment_122534739

It's always mounting "pressure" or red lines with Putin. How much does Ukraine need to invade before the pressure becomes too much. When is he actually going to act on this pressure or red line.

The answer is he can't. Because his army is already invested to the maximum of its ability. Already at it's limit.

Unfortunate backlash me arsse. He has already thrown everything at Ukraine.

Sleepy

The point that territory in Kursk is worth less than territory in the Donbas to Ukraine isn't factually incorrect, it's just missing the wider picture imo.

The incursion has been a major PR victory for Ukraine. That's easy to dismiss the value of to many of us who think of PR as something involving vacuous bints who drink too much prosecco. In reality, Ukraine is still in this war because it's lead by Volodymyr Zelenskyy who is an absolute master of PR: from his initial video pleading with Russia not to invade and the infamous "I need ammunition, not a ride" quote he's managed to keep Ukraine in the spotlight for 3 years (amidst the Middle East falling to pieces again) and as a result has a coalition of partners in the leaders of wealthy western nations who are funding and arming his country.

This foray is also making Putin look weak to Russian citizens and the Oligarchs / Siloviki around him. Might it be enough to tempt them into sharpening their knives and taking him out? Time will tell but Putin's death would be exactly the off-ramp Russia needs in order to blame everything on him and retreat from Ukraine in exchange for an easing or dropping of the sanctions that are crippling their economy.

In the realm of the more "on the ground" practical sphere, the incursion seems to have helped Ukraine to destroy a significant amount of Russia's airforce: we're hearing of destroyed or damaged aircraft and helicopters multiple times a week at the moment alongside the destruction of large caches of the glide bombs that have been doing so much damage to Ukrainian defences and demolition of infrastructure (railways, bridges and ferries) that are critical to Russian military logistics.

This isn't as simple as taking a chunk of Russia to swap for Ukrainian land in any future negotiations. It's textbook Sun Tzu: hit your enemy where he is weak and least expecting it. Yes, territory in Kursk may become a bargaining chip at some point but that clearly isn't the primary objective of the operation.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534751#Comment_122534751

Yes, and ?

Just google Suwalki corridor

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534769#Comment_122534769

“If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it.”