Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336900#Comment_122336900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Signal

"The Daily Signal is a conservative American political media news and commentary website founded in June 2014. The website focuses on politics, policy, and culture and offers political commentary from a conservative perspective.

The Daily Signal was a project of The Heritage Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based conservative think tank from the time of its launch in 2014 until June 3, 2024, when it became an independent publication with its own board of directors and leadership"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

"Heritage leads Project 2025, an expansive plan to reshape the federal government and consolidate executive power should a Republican be elected president in 2024."

So of course the Daily Signal would publish an article sayoing Top 5 Things the Left Gets Wrong About Project 2025. Not exactly neutral in all of this?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336900#Comment_122336900

another link dump from the “analyst” an opinion piece from a garbage tier website

https://adfontesmedia.com/daily-signal-bias-and-reliability/

Literally run by the people who WROTE Project 2025, and want to put it into action. They are the wrong people to downplay their own manifesto.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336900#Comment_122336900

This is another swing and a miss in a long long list of them

everlast75

https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/1808447071592100153

Happened here from 2015-2020 and is happening again.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122330101#Comment_122330101

I am not convinced this is the case. I have made these two observations before, and nobody has as yet told me either of them are wrong.

1. Absolute immunity =/= total immunity. There are already exceptions in the absolute immunity doctrine for civil law to include willful breaking of the law. There is no reason to believe that similar exemptions should not apply here.
2. Immunity, if applicable despite the above, does not bootstrap actions to lawfulness. That the President cannot be charged or punished for an immune act does not mean that the act itself cannot be stopped by the courts or (let’s say for the coup or assasination hypothesis) by subordinates who themselves are aware of the law and not immune to the same effect, and this has basically been the situation since, what, the early 19th century?

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337497#Comment_122337497

That seems like very shaky ground to be basing law and order on.

Surely one of the president's menz who the president has hand picked, will stop him. Especially when put under pressure by somebody who knows they can't get hurt by this. Or a court will stop it, if they find out about it and are not also judged by someone hand picked by the president.

I am not saying it is open season but it seems like exceptionally shaky ground to base the legal system for this on. It seems very much like gaps and loopholes will appear with this.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336900#Comment_122336900

No thanks. If your argument isn't worth writing yourself, it's not worth reading this conspiracy site.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337497#Comment_122337497

How does that not lead to another Saturday night massacre? With the lickspittles that Trump hires it would probably be a very quick massacre.

Patrick2010

Its bizarre how the likes of Trump and the GOP have made the term "the left" acceptable in describing Democrats like Joe Biden as communists and Marxists (and bizarrely sometimes fascists) .

From that daily signal article…

"Winding down and eventually abolishing the Department of Education would
ultimately be in the interest of Americans, increasing the quality of
education. Reforming the FBI would protect Americans from the
politically corrupt leadership that runs the agency today."

Imagine a country with no department of education.

"Project 2025 would rein in rogue and authoritarian elements within the
Justice Department, the Department of Homeland Security, and other parts
of the U.S. government."

Trump wants complete control of the justice department and would use this control to go after whoever he wants to.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337497#Comment_122337497

Ref your Para 1: The problem lies with the fact that the courts generally act after the evil is done, and not before by a pre-emptive application being brought to court for it to issue a stop and desist order to the person who's attempting the evil deed. The fact is that SCOTUS has been deciding on the presidential actions of the 45th president in "after the fact" legal decisions appealed from the lower courts. The "official presidential acts are immune from prosecution and unofficial presidential acts are not" ruling in their own way clarify what has happened in respect to Trumps acts while he was president. He has already damaged the US through those acts. This time around, the evidence that Trump will act with malice aforethought exists. It's not hearsay, it's from his own mouth and from his own statements on his own media site.

Ref your Para 2: The only way for the "stop his actions" measures to be applied is through what I'll describe here for the purpose of debate as "constitutional patriotic actors" like the last Chief of the Joint Chiefs, and the Head of the FBI fired by Trump, taking the steps they could to bring a halt to the canter by Trump through the liberties of the US citizens across the board of all and none persuasions. How many like those two will be left sitting in federal employ If Trump is re-elected? With him as the 47th and with the ruling SCOTUS ruling in his pocket, the odds of some-one being put into Department head by him with an independent "disloyal" mind toward deciding for themselves what is right and proper is unlikely. We've already seen him basically neutering the GOP and installing his family in the RNC to ensure its loyalty. SCOTUS, well, what's left to be said about it?

As for people willing to make the ultimate sacrifice on (let’s say for the coup or assassination hypothesis) I don't know of any Claus Von Stauffenbergs around….

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337497#Comment_122337497

This is a fair point, only if for instance you have a moral Seal Team 6.

Project 2025 for example, seeks to begin a process toward a unitary executive government loaded with loyalists. And it's not like they're starting from scratch, a major portion of the courts you just mentioned in your response are already in capture, from lower courts like Aileen Cannon's, to the supreme court of John Roberts. The document says out loud some things that have already been in motion for a very, very long time - and have born fruit. There is no special guardrail to prevent this capture from happening in the military, either.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338829#Comment_122338829

Too soon to call it a coup d'état?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336166#Comment_122336166

I wouldn't know.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339126#Comment_122339126

Works for me. It's Last Week Tonight's report on Trump's Second Term.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339160#Comment_122339160

I forgot to say that I'm in the UK. Would love some LWT right now.

It's been suggested that I get a VPN but… I'll go without for now.

TinyMuffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339175#Comment_122339175

then you’d have missed this.

https://youtu.be/tkAqwHiAR-g?si=M9K0kv2u3o1SfKQ9

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338829#Comment_122338829

The problem with this argument is that there was nothing stopping that sort of thing last month, last year, or even last century beyond the situation of refusals or post-facto legal actions. The same protections still exist. Whether or not there could theoretically be immunity after a coup, let's say, would be entirely academic after said coup, as the point of the coup is to be unlawfully in charge, they wouldn't care about what happens afterwards as they would control everything, courts be damned. To the extent that there are protections against unlawful acts, immunity or lack thereof isn't one of them. That purely relates to criminal charges after the fact. And, again, that's assuming that immunity exists for acts which are obviously unlawful, which I don't believe has been shown to be the case.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339294#Comment_122339294

Yes. I found a 15-minute piece of it on X so I'll make do.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338991#Comment_122338991

You can't call it a coup d'état as its not from the specific region, in this case it's just Sparkling Insurrection

TinyMuffin

a coup yeeeehaaa

aloyisious

In so far as Trump seems to be of the mindset that "to the victor go the spoils" and that the rules which [in the way the modern US ran its affairs over the last few decades] are for him to decide, I agree with Manic Moran. That is the basis of Trump's "successes". He's no gentle-person willing to abide by the constitution. He is using it as a tool for his aims and, with the aid of lawyers, to swamp and subvert SCOTUS and the lower courts with paperwork. They are making it impossible to use the laws for the original honourable purpose they were crafted for.

The statement by the Democrat Representative in the House leading the prosecution case against Trump about the US being a nation of laws shows it's unfortunate weakness when it comes to a political creature like Trump who doesn't give a fig for the law. He's succeeded in turning the swamp in Washington into a morass and making an ass out of the law and SCOTUS into the bargain. It may take the suspension of the usual court system [a special criminal court set up for two or three years] to deal with and eradicate Trump-ism from the US body corporate, political and legal. Keep in mind that he has already tempered the justice system toward that end himself and it would only be right if he were hoist on a scaffold of his own making.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339322#Comment_122339322

I feel the issue would be attempted coup. It also gives a stronger avenue to stop one in the process if the person can't just say everything I am doing is legal and you need to debate whether or not it is before stopping them. It also gives some cover for whistleblowers who might hope that power is taken away before they can be found for revenge instead of a well please don't do it again.

Also I would not be comfortable at leaving at I am unsure if trying to overthrow the rule of law is covered by immunity. That would be a negative on this ruling until I found out for definite it would not be covered. I feel the onus should be on someone defending the ruling to show what would be covered.

At the very best this ruling does nothing to help the US and worst leaves the US system open to get crippled which is not my kind of preferred trade off.

Maxface

Probably the best thing they could do would be to replace the VP with a strong candidate. Would temper a lot of the concerns.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339391#Comment_122339391

A Coup Klux Klan revival...

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339391#Comment_122339391

Coup 2: electric boogaloo

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340226#Comment_122340226

We need to save the rec centre democracy.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339322#Comment_122339322

The law is not an independent entity. It relies upon people to uphold and enact it. If you load enough Trump loyalists into the correct positions, the law doesn't actually matter whatsoever.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340977#Comment_122340977

All very Soviet

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340977#Comment_122340977

The politicisation of the US judiciary and in particular of the manner of it's appointments are playing a huge role in using populism to shape court benches.

There are IIRC about 20 States that run judicial elections, that puts quite a lot of local/state judicial power into the hands of explicitly political judges, vote chasing judges.

Now those elected judges aren't federal, federal judges are lifetime appointees. Selected by a President and confirmed by the senate. An inherently political process that leads to fractious delays at times, particularly with Supreme Court but, with many other appointments affected.

The lack of effective means of censure, ethics and plain old decent morality of much of the American federal benches is plainly political and is now being gamed, and very effectively so by the US right, think tanks and political donors are focusing as much on judicial appointments as they are on the WH and Capitol hill.

The need for non-partisan judicial appointments committee, for effective oversight and discipline of federal judges is imperative. Judges esp SCOTUS cannot credibly police and discipline themselves.

The SCOTUS decision in US v Trump undermines both the separation of powers insofar as it grants POTUS a cloak of immunity and in doing so, it grants imprimatur to POTUS being above the law.

In a country founded on the principles of no man being above the law, and in direct opposition to tyranny? It should chill the blood of anyone who holds true to those founding principles.

TLDR; SCOTUS screwed the pooch in an effort to make the Christo-fascist's imperfect vessel a pseudo king.

Overheal

"However bad you think it is: it's worse."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQ43yyJvgs

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339126#Comment_122339126

sigh, i guess you missed his entire UK elections episode then. it's brilliant. #cockwomble

everlast75

Anyone voting for this guy needs their head examined

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122341548#Comment_122341548

Well they would have to fall into one, some or all of the three C categories (Cretin, Crazy, Cúnt). Going by what you read online from his supporters across various platforms, it is hard to argue that it isn't the case.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122341548#Comment_122341548

…cause the other guy is so much better!

countries in some serious trouble, and so are we!

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342318#Comment_122342318

If you can't tell the difference between the two, I genuinely can't help you.

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342318#Comment_122342318

You should check out Projekt 2025. It's the equivalent of the enabling act in Germany 1933.
Anyone voting for Trump is either deranged, a troll or a traitor. No exceptions.
Anyone who wants to have a country left should vote for anything, anyone other than Trump. If the choice is between Trump and a mouldy bagel, vote bagel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYXZ6iJJSgM

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342473#Comment_122342473

It is the enabling act and the Treaty of Algeron rolled into one.

All on a public shoestring budget but relying on the docility of the populace after years of fluoride in water and 5G control.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342334#Comment_122342334

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342473#Comment_122342473

…the establishment, particularly the dems, have been actively undermining large proportions of American citizens for decades now, and its worked, its completely understandable why trump has strong support, as its mainly these folks that have been continually undermined, and they know it, trump knows this, and is using it for his own gains, only problem is, hes also trying to screw over these folks, and hes also succeeding!

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342318#Comment_122342318

Objectively yes he is better, hes not a rapist, convicted felon, accused paedophile, failed businessman, pathological liar, possible russian asset etc etc. Do i think Biden should be running? No absolutely not but he is and there is no question he would be better for the US as well as for the rest of the world as president than TFG

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342779#Comment_122342779

what large proportions of american citizens, that have been screwed over, especially by the dems?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342794#Comment_122342794

…oh theres no question, another biden admin would be far better for the average american, but that may not happen, its been a truly dreadful campaign for him, hes just too bloody old, but its disturbing to see the dems being completely unable to cultivate someone younger, theyve had the time, trump supporters have had enough, have had enough of being screwed over, particularly by the dems, they no longer care how bad trump is, cause theyve nothing to lose…..

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342804#Comment_122342804

..ah come on lads, this is clearly obvious now, continual undermining of critical needs, job security, health care and housing needs etc, continually pandering to wealthier needs, at the downfall of the average joe, this has been from both sides of the house, and for decades, no wonder people have flocked towards trump……

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342817#Comment_122342817

and you for some reason think, the dems are more to blame for this than republicans or trump?

Im sure you can give a wealth of examples of how the dems have screwed the average joe under each of your topics there and how trump is the apparent answer.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342794#Comment_122342794

It's hard to say who would be better for the world. How could Trump make it worse other than ordering the US military to strike China. I think that is pretty unlikely.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342779#Comment_122342779

I think 'particularly the dems' is wrong. The GQP have been the enemy of the middle classes since forever. Trouble is, the Democrats have missed the message where they needed to do even more for their 'typical constituents.' Like, Obamacare had potential, but was gutted by the insurers. Imagine if it had turned into 'medicare for all,' it would've been a seismic shift in favor of the average US worker who could, now, tell their boss to take their job and shove it and not lose healthcare. NAFTA (a GOP invention but fully embraced by all sides) was another disaster that the Democrats helped with.

And CFTrump having support says a lot about the education system in the US, which is run by unions who are big Democrat boosters, but not like the GQP has done it any favors, including freaks like Betsy DeVos running things. Project 2025 wants to abolish the education department entirely - more dumb voters who CFTrump favors.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342843#Comment_122342843

the evidence has been glaring for years now, yet the dems havent accepted their own part in these issues, yes both sides of the house are to blame, but the dems have yet to accept their part, again, no wonder why trump appeared, and is also well supported, remember obama post 08 crash, his promises, hope and change, and then what actually happened after his election….

trump clearly isnt the answer, but neither is biden…

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342853#Comment_122342853

the only way you can think of for trump to make things worse, is by striking China?

Nothing at all on in the US education, economy, debt, environment, federal agancies - EPA, FTC

For the rest of the world - trade, ukraine, being a counter balance to agressive regimes.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342473#Comment_122342473

People held their nose and voted for Biden four years ago. To be a little more kind, safe centrist Joe Biden seemed like an attractive alternative to the craziness of Trump, which it was.

But the thing of it is that the Democrats cannot make that their political strategy. That's just depressing - a choice between Trump and some other guy who you can say, 'hey, at least he's not Trump'. If that's what they're banking on, then they deserve to lose the upcoming election. They had four years to get someone from the next generation ready, but bet on Biden, and now appear to be reaping the fruits of that.

The Democrats sort of need a Trump of their own in a way. What I mean by that is someone who can come in from outside the party and electrify the base, not needing to go through the party apparatus and shake all the right hands. Someone who forces the party to change. Someone who speaks directly to the people. All those things but just not a raging arsehole like Donnie.

For sure, if they stick with the candidates they have been propping up the last eight years, they're really just helping pave a road to hell.

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343331#Comment_122343331

IMO Biden is more than just "not Trump". His track record is good, his only problem is not selling himself well enough. And Republicans spending 4 years screaming lies and bulls1t about him.
And now idiots are saying "I don't know, like, dude, Biden's old and stuff, erm, I think I'll vote for the guy who promises to destroy democracy in the US".

That is the dumbest, sh1ttiest, most idiotic reason to vote for fascism. If it happens it's because US voters are idiots and they deserve it. It's just a pity that decent people will have to suffer as well through no fault of their own.
You don't eat a plate of sh1t because you don't like what your partner is cooking, so why vote Trump because Biden is old? And what about Trump? Is he fcuking 20?
In the 1930s people had an excuse for voting for Hitler, they didn't know that he was going to burn down the planet and commit genocide.
The same with Trump 2016.
But voting for Trump now is like voting for Hitler in 1945. People know exactly what he is about.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343457#Comment_122343457

The Dems' message really needs to be that you're not just voting for Biden or Trump, but for their administrations, and who they'll put in different positions.

Biden may be old as f*ck, but he'll continue to put experienced, knowledgeable and competent people in different roles.

Trump already claimed he'd hire "the best people" in his first term, and most of those are either under investigation or facing criminal charges, or have already ruled themselves out of serving his administration again.

Dems need to push that a vote for Biden is a vote for Democrats, rather than the chaos that Trump would poison the White House and Cabinet with.