Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP

tarvis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122405729#Comment_122405729

So four more TantrumP years while the planet burns. Puts Nero’s fiddling in the halfpenny place.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1814755175963214328

.....

Babyreignbow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfX8kriY2D8

Jim Jones style fellowship

PropJoe10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122405911#Comment_122405911

Rightio. Why do you think he got 74 million votes? Why do you think he's popular? Would you care to actually share your thoughts or are you just going to work in generalisations like most people who come here accusing people of posting rubbish?

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122405954#Comment_122405954

I dont know if one person can know the actual answer. It is only through debate and actual open dialogue that an answer to that can be established. A "reasonable" answer at least. It is the one thing that truly annoys me about the dems in the US. When they lost 8 years ago, they didnt bother asking that very question. "Why" did he get so many votes.

As I said I can only give my opinion. It doesnt mean I am right at all. But by people discussing, then maybe an acceptable conclusion can be drawn.

I think* he is popular because he has made it "us" (Non politicians) against them (actual politicians). Just look at his party now. They look closer to the centre than the left do. The working class seem to be more on his side. That WWE as an example.

Some here will remember the story line of Stone Cold Steve Auston against Vince Mcmahon. For those who look down on that comparison, just think, a very powerful boss who doesnt really care about his employees. Then an employee who rebels and gets his chance to fight him. That story line was successful because it resonated with the common person. The person who has a sh*t job and feels like they get no thanks for it. Its the same thing here. "The Government" are all in it together. "They dont care about you". "I am going to get rid of them and drain the swamp". Yes of course the low IQ will be all for that. But so will the working class common person. They will see the high taxes they pay. They see the cost of living go up. They are tired of the same political promises every 4 years. Its the Stone Cold Vince storyline all over again but played out in real life. Thats why the court cases make his fans dig in. They see "Stone cold" getting arrested. Thats part of my theory. There are a few more reasons but I think that one is a big one.

Atlantic Dawn

He seems back to his best 😁

looksee

From the start, this thread has been trying to understand why Trump is so popular. Its true there is post after post of discussion negative to Trump, but that is mostly because it is virtually impossible to say anything positive about him. If there were anything positive why have the Trump enthusiasts not mentioned it?

In virtually every case his apologists come on and do what you have just done, they complain about the bias against him but don't give any convincing reasons why we should have a more positive attitude to him.

Please, instead of throwing insults around and daring mods to warn you (for what? Be civil and you won't get warned) give us some actual meat to discuss.

'Saying they are just dumb is missing the point' - ok tell us what is the point? What should we be aware of that we have apparently missed?

Leroy42

It isn't hard to understand why people support Trump. There are myriad reasons but some of them:

• They are staunch Republicans and will support anything on that side
• They are in difficult circumstances and blame the dems for that
• They agree with Trumps position on Ukraine
• They agree with Trumps position on immigration
• They are fed up with the current political situation and believe that Trump says when he says he will fix it.
• They hate how USA has changed and become more liberal and want to return to past days when others knew their place.

What is difficult to understand is why they are willing to put aside all his lies, his corruption, his fraud, his sexual assaults, his ripping off of Charities, his lack of respect for democracy, his attempt to overturn an election, his continued failure to accept the last election result, his poor performance in every election since 2016, his failure to make good picks for every job he has given in his administration.

None of that, and much more, seems to matter more than what these people personally believe Trump can do for them.

It isn't hard. It's just petty selfishness and me-feinism.

When Trump supporters post on here with a grain of truth and honesty that despite all they know of Trump they hate the other stuff so much they are prepared to put up with anything, then we can have proper debate.

But unfortunately, all we get is this 'two sides' lines or the 'I'm not a supporter but' line. And Biden is old. Before that it was HC was horrible.

The multiple and serious reasons why people don't support him have been given multiple times by numerous posters on this thread.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406047#Comment_122406047

The fact is that anyone who tries to not say anything anti Trump is labled on boards as an apologist.

Regarding saying "positive" things about Trump, I am not saying we have to come here and say how shiny his teeth are. But look at the assassination thread. People genuinely replied "I cant stop smiling". You can talk about a subject without it just being "everyone who supports Trump is a Rape Apologist". I mean what sane person would even bother getting into an actual discussion. In fact I was on here yesterday and had some back and forward. People didnt agree with me and that is fine. Its called debate. I was reported and warned for saying someone was "talking rubbish" (I sh*t you not). But I am not questioning mods. I am sure that was an infraction. But for someone to report that just shows the level of maturity. I was called "dull" and compared to a white supremacist just because someone didnt agree with me.

I have given you one of my points and instead of discussing it, you are saying I am throwing insults around. I mean if you are getting offended by my insult of "not a serious poster around here" then ffs this place is lost!!!

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406069#Comment_122406069

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But the problem is all the negative stuff doesnt mean anything.

Lets say everyone here decided we were going to put together the replacement for Joe Biden.

Are we going to just choose someone who we think is a good choice and take our chances

or

Do we try to understand what we can do better with our message.

Sure we can say "but Trump did this" but his base doesnt care. As you said. So how do we get through to those people. When I said "it doesnt mean anything", I mean its a lazy excuse (no offense intended. Not aimed at you personally). Its like saying "sure we cant win the Premier League because Man City cheated". I mean sure, you are right (probably), but saying that isnt going to win the PL.

If people are willing to ignore "Lies, Corruption, fraud, sexual assault and ripping off charities" they must believe that the other side are doing the exact same or worse. There has to be a reason they ignore that stuff. So when debating it, instead of calling someone an apologist, have you found out what they think about the Dems? Because it is 100% not just because Biden is old. If it was then why wouldnt they vote for Harris as replacement? Why not Hilary? Why not Newsome, Pritzker, Whitemer? Its not just Biden!

Stop being blinded by the line "I am not a Trump fan but……….". Some people genuinely are not and are like to see both sides. I am not a flat earther but I have watched multiple docs about it because I find them insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you dont agree with.

PsychoPete

Has Trump just recently seen silence of the lambs or something? The mentions of hannibal lecter are odd

sonofenoch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406047#Comment_122406047

What does it matter about you having a more positive attitude to him, am assuming most here can't even vote against or for him so who cares…..he's not woke at all not pc at all so will never fly for a certain demographic, the type who like to talk the most others are just a little bored of all that

Is he a likeable man is Biden? what politicians are truly ever likeable ….what is fact is he'll get multi millions of votes in his favour (as will Biden) why? doesn't really need explaining to you you're not that important

Could those with 'post after post of discussion negative to Trump' ever debate or critique the man the same way in person? I doubt it I doubt it very much, but will talk on the internet till the cows come home for sure ….C'est la vie

lostboy75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406148#Comment_122406148

How many posts did you have yesterday calling me a liar for saying Trump is a rapist? Ignoring the fact I never said convicted rapist. You wanted to discuss this but only on yours terms, that he wasn't convicted of it so it's alright.

What are the ten bad things you mentioned he did but didn't elaborate on? Let's discuss those

looksee

A minor point, but you seem to think that 'apologist' is in some way insulting. It simply means someone defending an argument that is controvertial, you cannot deny that he is controvertial, there would be no discussion otherwise. If you like I will substitute 'the people who are arguing for Trump' rather than apologist, but it means the same thing.

Anyway, you are telling us to try to understand why Trump is so popular and Leroy 42 has given you a list of reasons. So do we just say, oh, right, now we understand, or are we allowed to debate how irrational these reasons are.

You have answered yourself in your last post:

Stop being blinded by the line "I am not a Trump fan but……….". Some people genuinely are not and are like to see both sides. I am not a flat earther but I have watched multiple docs about it because I find them insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you dont agree with.

Right, many of us do not like (respect/ agree with/ follow) Trump but we have watched multiple docs/ news items/ videos about him because we find the whole situation insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you don't agree with.

Exactly.

Redliketoast

No matter what side you fall on, Day 4 of the RNC was clever. A lot of it was the "humanisation of Trump". His grand daughters speech was pretty powerful in that. A lot of the speeches was people talking about Trump the person. Trying to give the non media side. Of course people on here wont need any of that to make up their minds (on either side). But the undecided out there it could give a lot of weight.

When we dont like someone we find it hard to think about them as a person. I dont like Cristiano Ronaldo. If someone told me he ignored a kid looking for an autograph I would easily believe it and call him a c**t. But the truth is it may not have even happened. Its how we are all built. If you dont like Biden you will do the same. If you dont like Trump you will do the same. When it comes to an assassination attempt people will discuss a lot of stuff but very likely ignore the person. They wont think about the fact that his kids and grandkids were watching this. His friends were praying to their God that he would be ok. They also dont think about the struggles that Trump has had in his life. The moments of empathy he has shown. They think of "grab her by the p***y". They dont think about the moments he was there for his friends. The moments he would have shown up for people around him who have had loved ones sick or pass away. They dont think about the person. Same goes for Biden by the way. Maybe not as bad because he has had big struggles play out in public (the death of his son for example). Its just something I found interesting about the other night.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406166#Comment_122406166

So calling you a liar is a reportable offense? You said he was a rapist. I dont believe I said you were a liar (maybe I did) but I said he was never convicted of rape so he is not a rapist. Lets not get that going again though. I am sure nobody wants that reboot. We both agree he wasnt convicted. You say he is a rapist. I say he is a sex offender. By arguing any further on it is pointless.

You can go back and look at the "ten bad things" for context if you would like. Or you can take my word for it that it is in reference to a Chris Rock quote that he said to Piers Morgan. I dont have the quote open nor will I be looking for it. If you want to google it, work away. I dont think its important enough to bother as it doesn't change the point.

He said something along the lines of "Trump is the type of guy, that if he did 10 bad things, dont say he did 11. Because he will just argue about that 11th thing".

Not that difficult to understand. Not even that inciteful tbh. But it is a good point. When you pick on something pedantic and make more of it than actually is, the opposition will just say you are wrong or that you are exaggerating. Then before you know it you are still talking about something that didnt even really happen while forgetting the things that did.

But here's the thing buddy. I would have come back yesterday after i finished work except people decided they dont like people with opposing views. Despite the stuff said against me I seem to be the only one not welcomed on that thread!!

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406168#Comment_122406168

and I welcome and enjoy debating the insanity of it all 100%

But the sheer mention of anything that isnt a dig at Trump is met with "Trump apologist" type replies. Just look at one of the replies this evening to me

"I bet none of you even know why trump is popular"

Ok, why is he popular?

"I don't know"

😂

There is no welcoming of people who dont go by the company line. Just a ganging up culture. Most people wont give real answers. They just spam the replies with things like above. Or literally just calling someone a Trump apologist (not aimed at you).

As I replied to Leroy, his post is really good and makes great points. But the problem is he cant help but allude to the negative troupes. The excuses. The things that raise more questions than answer.

Such as "why" do Trump supporters ignore the "lies, fraud, sexual assault" etc? Because just saying that they ignore it, whitewashes the reason they ignore it. I believe there is more in it than that. The average joe wont just ignore a billionaire white guys s***y acts because they feel bad for him.

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406175#Comment_122406175

The problem is that we can't think of him as a nice person because there has been little to nothing nice ever coming out of his mouth (from a left leaning perspective) to demonstrate that.

My first experience of Trump in a political sense was the birth cert conspiracy with Obama. Nothing positive there.

Then during his first term he lied, lied and, guess what, lied again. From claiming inauguration numbers early on to claiming the election was fraudulent at the end, he never seemed to be straight with the people. Granted, most politicians spin stuff, but don't come out with pure lies as often as he did.

Answering any difficult question with fake news wasn't endearing either.

Not paying bills. Claiming the election was a fraud in public but never claiming it in court. Using phrases line poisoning the blood. Being convicted of fraud. Being found liable for sexual assault. I believe he also can't be involved with a charity. Not calling the family of the person killed at his rally in the immediate aftermath.

There is very little public evidence to show him as a good person in the global sense. Not good in the sense that some people see destroying the environment as good and will see someone agreeing with them as good. Not good in the sense of trying to help people who are struggling, except by throwing kitchen towels at them. But genuinely trying to improve the well being of most people in their own country, or world, by making access to libraries and actual education easier, by making access to healthcare easier, by trying to make water and air cleaner.

Outside of the assassination attempt, which was horrific, can we really say he has had much in the way of troubles that weren't of his own making? Was given a crap ton of money. Went bankrupt and was given more. Got elected president, had lots of executive time, was kicked out of the job and managed to grift off people with t shirts, merchandise, and more since by claiming victimisation. Didn't co-operate with the authorities and faced charges over classified documents rather than just handing them back like others did.

Where is the positive shining light and human Trump that is a positive influence on the world?

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406197#Comment_122406197

 You say he is a rapist. I say he is a sex offender

You are both right.He is a rapist and also a sex offender.

An equal opportunities criminal.

(Who has yet to pay the financial penalty to the woman he attacked-because he feels it was a "perfectly fine assault")

A bit like his buddy Giuliani who has the gall to refuse to take responsibility for his defamation of the two election workers and cough up the money he owes them.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406264#Comment_122406264

Trump went on MSNBC's Morning Joe in 2011 and claimed he'd sent people to Hawaii who 'couldn't believe what they're finding.'

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/birther-bonkers-donald-trump_n_846051

I always find it funny that you have all these Trump supporters who accuse CNN et al of lying but hang on Trump's every word when he tells absolute see-thru whoppers like the above.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406264#Comment_122406264

A lot in there and a lot of stuff I agree with.

The Obama stuff goes back way before Trump. He certainly mentioned it but it really wasnt important as he never went against him for President. Its an old conservative conspiracy theory that was banded about for years before that.

As for the lies. I hear this a lot! The lies. Did you read the "fact checker" sites for the debate? Calling Trump out on lies (some harshly to be fair where he might have been slighty off on figures) but calling Bidens answers "mistruths". There is an exaggeration at times about his "lies". Inauguration numbers? He had huge numbers. Did he exagerate them? Maybe. Did Biden? Yes. Did Obama? Yes. But not just demos, all new presidents do. Its like a right of passage to say you got a billion people to show up.

The "fake news" was a term started by Hillary Clinton (Actually was used way before her also but in this context). SHe said it in reference to the "emails" that Trump said she had on her phone or laptop (cant remember which but you may recall the story). The story was all over facebook. She claimed this was all fake news by faker account which she continued to blame on Russia. While we often talk about how Trump didnt concede the election, either did the Dems. They spent his whole term trying to stonewall him. They cited "not my president" for 4 years and held investigations into Russia interfering. Is he wrong for acting like a spoilt 3 year old and not congratulating Biden? Yes. But lets not pretend the dems were gracious 4 years earlier. There was constant clashes from anti trumpers when he became president. Not to the Jan 6th degree thankfully. But again, claiming it didnt happen is just wrong.

I do not like Donald Trump. Now most people will say I am full of s*** and I support Trump because I am "defending" him. But the truth is I am living in Ireland. I do not have a vote in this election. It literally does not matter if I support him or not. Me saying I do not support him or that I do not like him, literally doesnt matter. It is just me trying to explain my position so you get an understanding of where I am coming from. If you dont believe that, it is all good. It doesnt change anything.

I dont like him because I think he represents that entitled rich white guy persona that we all think of when we think of "me 2" and the bank bailouts. I dont like him and think he probably has taken advantage of his money and power and looks (anyone who says he was always an ugly man is insane. He was a pretty boy rich guy back in the 80's/90's). He was/is a business man who isnt worried about upsetting anyone. He very much took advantage of people with things like Trump University (its exactly the same as Taits university. Or whatever that nut case calls it).

But he has also done a lot of great things way before he went into politics. New Yorkers loved 90's Trump. He bought failing companies and saved many of them. I'm sure he also vulture funded a few as they went belly up. But he did a lot of good for a lot of companies that would have went bust. Look at Doolin. The locals love him because his Investment helped their community. He has done that world wide.

You can argue that, that is business and doesn't represent the "human Trump". You would be correct. I think his problem has been we dont see Trump the person. We only see the guy who lost loads of money and was given more money. We dont know the personal stuff. Maybe he is to blame for not sharing that. But that was my point about the other night. It was a glimpse into his world. If you saw it you will know what I mean. If you didn't, it was basically people who used to work for him, some still do. Friends and family. Other personalities, all talking about him as a person. Sure they could all be liars (i doubt it) but it was good strategy.

Also in all of what you and others have said, you have never pointed out what he actually did in his time in office.

He has moved America away from being the world police and started to move them more on their own development.
We were told that if he ever became president he would start WW3. There was less war in his time than any other since the 80's? Again, he started to move America out of global conflicts (some will see that as a bad thing, but many Americans would not).

His administration pushed through legislation making it easier to punish financial fraud (I bet he regrets that🤣)
His was the first administration to actually audit the Pentagon. Nobody held the defense budget accountable before then.

His tax cuts we will never know if they were a good idea or not as Covid hit too soon afterwards. The pro sides think it would have put money in the pockets of the normal joe soap. The anti think it was only going to help the rich. Economists will always be split.
He was responsible for cutting down (not able to fully eliminate) "robo calls". No other administration even bothered before that.

He did also try to eliminate Obama care but accidentally improved it 😂 more people actually because entitled to it. He never meant that though.

He also wanted to stop the pro climate crisis policies. People will be split on whether thats good or bad.

This was all while being stonewalled as much as possible by the dems and told he was not their president. This is a few things off the top of my head while thinking that I cant come up with that much for Biden. Biden has undone some of the stuff he didnt agree with such as student debt and health care.

PowerToWait

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406313#Comment_122406313

I definitely dislike Trump a lot. But your assertions here are almost all, if not entirely, bs. Trump was a lauging stock in NYC, hated by the ordinary construction guys for stiffing them on jobs, and the 'elites' for his tawdry 'aesthetic'.

He totally abused his position to manipulate the stock market throughout his tenure. When he wasn't doing that he was golfing. Millions dead in the pandemic. Divided the nation. Pandered to despots. It's done to death at this stage. When you start looking at G.W. Bush in a sympathetic light you know the bar has hit the floor.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406319#Comment_122406319

Fair play for reading that god awfully long post. I apologise!!!

To say its all BS though is harsh. He was responsible for a lot of construction in New York in the 90's……… As for the Elites, he was def a show off and I would completely agree with not liking him. But the "elites" all acted like that.

Which of his companies made money as a result of manipulating the stock market?

Blaming him for people dying during covid is insane. Sure the bleach thing was stupid. Most global leader acted like complete morons during covid. Only Jacinta seemed to get any praise and even she turned into a nut.

I think everyone can see that double-ya (W in reference to his bio movie) is trying to let people forget what a moron he was.

I just think its insane that a nation of 300 million people cant find 2 decent candidates to run. But as I said before, there is no real difference. Both parties are backed by the same donors. Both like guns, God, closed borders, private sectors, Foreign investment and the stock market. Its just he amount of "like" that varies for each. No matter who gets in, nothing of substance will ever really change. Kids will shoot up schools. People will continue to OD on the street. Corporation's will continue to get rich off of misery.

The Dems and Reps believe in the same things. But they give an illusion of choice. If you are Christian vote right. If you are liberal vote left. If Trump was in Texas he would be a democrat. Thats how weird their politics is. Whats extreme left in the south is barely left and almost right in the north.

PowerToWait

None of it is surprising, or should be. If we look at our own politicians; Michael Lowry, convicted fraudster, tops the poll. Bertie Ahern, unquestionably dubious dealings, potentially running for president.

The UK just got rid of the fcuking Tories.

France has Marine Le Pen. Up to her neck in fraud and corruption, her father an ex paratrooper who tortured Algerian civilians during the war of independence.

Narendra Modi in India is an sectarian authoritarian. Basically an Indian fascist. At least the swastika is Hindu.

In the Philippines, Rodrigo Duerte had 12000 slum dwellers murdered Current president of the Philippines, Bongbong Marcos, is the son of kleptocrat Ferdinand.

Spain had Franco. Chile Pinochet. Italy Benito. All within living (just) memory.

Josef Stalin had up to 9 million civilians murdered and millions more incarcerated in gulags but he's still a hero to many, and totally revered in Georgia to this day. Putin is Putin.

I won't go on. But these people thrive on fear and hate. The Republican party in the US is no different. Trump is just a figure head. That bile will endure. Vance will make sure of that.

PowerToWait

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406332#Comment_122406332

Look Redliketoast, I undrstand you are going down the moderate route here. I get the 'both sides' thing. I don't agree with it, but I get it. It's a bit talking out both sides of your mouth though imo.

I understand that I undersand very, very little. It's just such a massively complicated mille feuille with a million different pulls, inflections, pushes and deflections. But, at its core it's quite simple. Do good or do harm. Tolerance or bigotry, unite or division.

MAGA is prejucice, bigotry, intolerance, envy, bitterness, blame, unwillingness to accept responsibility, lack of self awareness, self loathing, abuse, abused, abuser, projection, regret.

Trump is the representative, the personification of division.

Ten years ago a Republican and a Democrat could be civil, even have a beer and the craic. That's finished.

Lots of things 'of substance' have improved under the Biden / Dems administration. The 'deep state' worked well. Look at renewables, student debt forgiveness (a further 1.2 billon just a couple of days ago), record employment, huge improvements in infrastructure, negating medical debt as being considered as 'bad debt', Biden admin has tried passing numerous acts but is constantly stymied by Republicans, who, it seems, do not want Biden to get credit for any of these improvements. Including securing the southern border, one of the core MAGA catchcries.

As to the stocks question, I don't know if 'his companies' made money. But I am absolutely sure people close to him made money. Hundreds of millions, maybe more. He was POTUS, tweeting about trade embargos, restrictions, tariffs, energy policy. The market is jittery, he had the power to influence entire sectors and he abused it. Even this past week tech is down due to his statements in interviews, and he's not even in power yet.

lostboy75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406197#Comment_122406197

In subsequent posts from this one you have expanded on aspects of Trump that you disagree on so I'll leave that in this reply, they can be discussed separately.

it wasn't me that reported you. I don't believe I have ever reported a post on boards, and I don't tend to hit the ignore button either as it slants the reading of a thread in my eyes.

golfball37

As odious as Trump is he is seen as a better option for half the electorate than a career politician- whatever or whoever is put up against him.
That’s what hasn’t been debated in 9 years now.
Highlighting his endless transgressions or just dismissing his voters as uneducated or racist constantly isn’t serious debate and more pertinently isn’t working !

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406526#Comment_122406526

Re last paragraph, the two are not mutually exclusive

Anyways it’s hard to keep up with all the blabbering the orange turd does daily

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1814877968637870198

aloyisious

Ref Trump's winning the 2016 election, my memory and understanding is that the Dems came to the conclusion afterwards that one reason they lost to Trump was that Hilary didn't visit enough states, didn't do enough stumping to energize the electorate, and they assumed that the locals would turn out like clockwork as usual to vote for the Democrat ticket, which didn't happen.

As for Tump's popularity versus that of the regular GOP Washington crew, I don't know how large an effect, if any, that would have had on a "lets try this new guy" basis amongst the GOP voters, seeing as how the regulars were prepared, on a weird form of partisanship, to let Trump stand for the party. I have to assume they must have got some sort of "Trump is popular" feedback from the different GOP parties at states level to commit each other, as rivals, to support Trump, even if it was by default.

Babyreignbow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406313#Comment_122406313

If you're an employee of Doonbeg you might as well state as much and then go and watch this because if it's about who pays your wages it's crucial to discussion. (timestamped for you)

https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s?si=0KX9NWCriY03nJZg&t=977

Trump was born butt ugly just btw.