Vw moving to a direct sales model

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198264#Comment_122198264

You could well be right? In which case something quite amiss with regulations. I'll ask the dealer next time it's in for service if they can disable or change it.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197435#Comment_122197435

Unfortunately NCAP has 0 power, one reason Dacia got such poor safety ratings was not so much structural but because they don't have that electronic crap that bings and bongs and costs more to the buyer with absolutely no benefits.

Cme 2025 all cars have to have this sh1t and won't be able to turn it off again, E.U interference, seems all the E.U are good for is interference.

Imagine someone who likes driving a car and has to mostly drive country roads with the car binging and bonging constantly and constantly pulling the steering in your hands and you won't be able to turn it off ? this is for safety, would the E.U ever go and f1ck itself !

What they should concentrate is making people better drivers without all this electronic sh1t and all it does is make people dumber and some of the self driving aids even promote the use of using mobile phones in cars as they foolishly think " sure the car will brake itself and prevent a crash happening = that is completely false, but they believe it and browse their phone instead of looking at the road.

There needs to be punishment for using phones in cars, proper detection and proper fines and suspended license but at the end of the day isn't it hypnotical banning phone use when cars are now just entertainment centres on wheels ?

https://www.theverge.com/23801545/car-infotainment-customer-satisifaction-survey-jd-power

Mad_Lad

Deleted as quoted test failed to appear.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197718#Comment_122197718

Do you think Irish rural roads are a special type of road all to themselves? Been on penty of narrow country roads around Europe.

Either way lane assist is not an issue on these roads as it's not functioning due to general lack of road markings.

Anyhow if it's on it's only a slight tug that can be overridden very easily. Long used to it now,don't bother switching it off and now never an issue.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197736#Comment_122197736

There's no way fits you drive your id3 on your local roads without the steering pulling , you might have gotten used to it but bugged the hell out of me + always had to go through menu to turn it off.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198481#Comment_122198481

These systems have different names but the one in the id3 used to pull the steering on rural roads if it thought I was getting too close to the centre lane and it detected even the side of the roads, the ditch, it's not a nice experience, I don't like it.

The Kia cee'd does the same but I just press a very easy to access button and it's off, unlike the id3 having to go into menus.

While you're used to it doesn't mean everyone should have to put up with it that doesn't like or want it especially after it's not allowed come 2025 to turn it off.

There is however a benefit to those systems that can properly steer on good roads, but all this tech should be optional.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198518#Comment_122198518

occasionally it does a slight correction yes. It doesn’t bother me. In fact I kinda miss it in the other car.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198481#Comment_122198481

Like MadLad says, 'Lane Assist' be fine on roads that have paint markings but round here it seems to come in and out erratically depending on the distance from the car to a roadside ditch or garden wall/ fence at any point. It's just plain annoying and does nothing at all to promote safety. The mad thing is that you can't choose to have it on or off by default and on recent VWs you have to be pressing buttons and looking at menus. A car has no business interfering with steering on such roads.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198736#Comment_122198736

On some of my narrow roads where there is a road markings the id3 was always pulling the steering. Frustrating. Going through the menus to turn it off was irritating, the whole car was just irritating to be honest, if I had spent more time in it rather than a 30 min test drive I wouldn't have got the car in the first place but my own priority wasn't the infotainment it was how the car drove, had I turned up the stereo loud enough I would have heard the doors rattle like they were going to fall off and only after I got it I realised there were no rear door speakers, in a 41K car.

It will be a very long time before I buy a VW again based on my experience with their modern cars if this is the future and the future of the auto industry in general I will just buy older and older cars, in fact I won't be buying new cars ever again, complete waste of money for the crap you get today.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196916#Comment_122196916

Yes.

A few years ago we visited a few Skoda dealers and without much haggling, got 8.26% off the list price.

It looks like this won't be possible with VW in the future?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198833#Comment_122198833

The only problem I see with that is insurers pricing such older cars off the roads or refusing to quote for them in the first place, coupled with motor tax changes designed to make them unviable to most people.

This is all part of the Green agenda to push us into disposable but expensive and overly computerised electric vehicles. I can see independent dealers and mechanics being similarly pushed out as they won't have the access to the software in the car.

That, and we Irish are obsessed with the age of a car/reg plate. This is all why otherwise perfectly good cars became worthless overnight when they started messing with the tax rates in 2008, and why insuring anything over 10 years old (especially anything unusual or nice) becomes increasingly difficult.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198833#Comment_122198833

This is valuable information. As I've never owned a car with lane assist, I had no idea that it would do that on a country road and it's probably not something that would be picked up on a test drive. If I bought a car and it did what you describe and had to be turned off on every journey by going into stupid menus, I'd be fcuking raging.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199020#Comment_122199020

So insurance companies are following an agenda set down by the Greens? Seriously, do you really believe this?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199412#Comment_122199412

Not my take, they are riding us on the back of the Green agenda

mickdw

The automated systems are taking the piss now.

Radar cruise that used to be great at following car in front now has got smarter and rigidly follows speed limits at every sign post so.if you decided to cruise at 90 in an 80, that's OK but as soon as you hit a 50, it slows down and then goes back to 80, not 90. It's tiresome .

Add to that lane assist that is on at each startup and stop start doing likewise and it's getting quite annoying.

I will be making some adjustments!

mickdw

On topic, surely the existing dealer network will still have a role in retailing the returning stock and as such will still be buying direct from customer and offering a price that they can make money at. I don't see it going the way of an online system offering a trade in price, take it or leave it because don't forget returning pcp customers can sell their car to anyone, anywhere.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199739#Comment_122199739

the first part is a good feature, its helping you keep to the limit……

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199755#Comment_122199755

Its not tho, 120 km/h on the speedometer is only 110 km/h or so in real GPS speed. And if you want to go a few km/h more the computer shouldn’t stop you.

Luna84

I can see cars in the near future limited to sign post speeds and never being able to speed even on an empty motorways in the dead of the night. Emergency, police and army vehicles will not be limited.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199788#Comment_122199788

then turn the feature off? its true the speedo usually shows a lower speed but for the systems purposes its correct, you cant really complain about a safety feature not allowing you to break the speed limit

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199058#Comment_122199058

Oh, I think form 2025 you won't be able to turn it off on new cars, + I think 2025 is the year they introduce mandatory speed limiting and speed warnings, more bings and bonds, you won't be able to turn off the warnings as far as I am aware but you will be able to turn off the cars ability to slow you down automatically, but how long before it can't be turned off in future models ?

Volkswagen tried to copy Tesla's "modern" minimalist interiors and made sh1t of it, although, I wouldn't buy a tesla because of all this screen nonsense too, people love it and that's great, happy for them but it shouldn't be forced down our throats.

People bought Volkswagens because they made good cars, good ergonomic interiors, they went from traditional to future and if people wanted a big screen they bought a tesla others expect proper ergonomic interiors from VW not some glitchy software and screens that look like it was designed by screen addicted teenagers !

Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad news because features like travel assist are excellent for the motorway and good roads with good markings, it really keeps you in lane and it's good on commutes with lots of motorway but the lane assist which is not travel assist is just a very irritating feature that has to be turned off via menu in a menu and I really detest it.

Common to all these systems is that they can't prevent accidents and people are putting too much trust in them and taking out the phone for a youtube or tiktok session. On the N7 commuter grid lock traffic the system is actually dangerous because it can't handle the 100-0 and 80-50 in a second type of driving and it will crash if you don't intervene, it makes me wonder how many accidents are caused by such systems and people having too much faith in their abilities ?

Another highly irritating feature is the auto speed limiting, this nearly drove me nuts, on the N7 heading south parallel to the kill road there is a 60 Km/hr sign and every single time I passed it the id3 would hit the anchors and it was incredibly dangerous, thankfully it can be turned off but this option is buried in even more menus but what about when it can't be turned off ?

Yes, there's more, the emergency brake assist lights up the whole dash from passenger to driver side, a bright red light the width of the dash would come on and it would scream at you to brake when it thought you were going to hit something, that can't be turned off.

Between all this and infotainment crashes causing me to loose climate, no heat, no AC, no radio, no sat nav no speedometer it's no wonder I gave the car back under the half rule and this is before you get to all the electric car issues. Range, recharge times and queues at public chargers are very real issues but as 2nd cars where there is an ICE at home electric are worth a shot but I would never have one as my main car.

VW in the beginning promised to fix many issues with the id cars but it never happened, promised OTA updates, never happened and now the issue is that major software updates are impossible due to older hardware causing cars to be stuck on older software, so, basically, from an update perspective after 2.5 years old the car is already outdated !

I'd ride around on a 125 cc motorbike before I'd put myself in another high tech electric car again or pretty much any modern car with all this software and screens, no thanks.

I'm in a much simpler petrol car now and I couldn't begin to describe how good it is, honestly !

Mad_Lad

Depends on the car maybe, the speedo ( when it worked ) in the id3 EV was reading only 3 Km/h off the GPS.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199739#Comment_122199739

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199755#Comment_122199755

I think from 2025 you won't be able to turn off the speed limit warnings but you will be able to turn of the car automatically slowing down and speeding up again, but for how long ?

In the id3 it used to brake if it detected a speed limit sign on a parallel road, it was super dangerous but lucky it could be turned off completely.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199505#Comment_122199505

Yes but they will only do as much as people allow them to do.

The Government will owe billions in emissions fines if we don't meet emissions targets but the Government keep signing up to these agreements lie a bunch of spas just to appear like great earth saving people. We don't have to owe anything if we don't sign up to it ? the people didn't agree to this BS !

People really need to take to the streets and say, enough !

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199755#Comment_122199755

Not a good feature. There is such a thing as keeping with the flow of traffic and as I said the radar cruise used to be useful but this brings you right down to bang on the limit which someone said is very likely well under the limit creating a mobile road block.

Perhaps the radar cruise can be used without this part by disabling travel assist. Must play around with it.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199020#Comment_122199020

Well firstly, it's not just electric cars, it's most new cars that suffer from this computer infestation.

The Government benefit hugely the more expensive new cars people buy no matter whether ICE or EV, VRT, VAT is a huge source of income for them, for this reason alone is enough to prevent me buying any new car again.

I agree, cars have now become disposable appliances. The solution ? not buy new cars but people are addicted to screens and tech and love it, the manufacturers only care about revenue but there could come a huge turnaround if the insurance companies feel that these modern cars are causing too much distraction and insurance premiums could significantly increase. Even though NCAP has no power at all, it should be a wake up call because if NCAP are concerned about all this screens and tech how long before the insurance companies catch on ? It will make old cars they deem worthy of sending to the scrap suddenly a lot safer after all. We're definitely a very wasteful society !

I agree 100%, Irish people are obsessed with new reg plates, SUV and PCP. Willing to drive out in a 40-50+ K car when they could buy the good 2nd hand car for cash or part finance. It's bonkers. An Island gone mad, I did it for too long myself, never again.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199920#Comment_122199920

you can keep up with the flow of traffic without going over the speed limit

and the 'mobile road block' as you call it isnt caused by the type of slowing down being talking about here

if you want to break the speed limit fine, thats up to you. but dont complain about a safety feature not allowing you to do so

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199920#Comment_122199920

You can't have travel assist without adaptive cruise but you can have adaptive cruise without travel assist but you will have to turn off the lane assist each time the car is started and in regard to the id3 you can turn off the auto speed limit recognition, it's buried in menus.

You should be able to turn off the auto speed limit recognition on the ICE VWs also.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200289#Comment_122200289

I'm sure vcds will be able to adjust the requirement to hit those buttons every time you start up.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199899#Comment_122199899

I had a Kia before that used to detect the speed limits every time. Now I drive an MG4 and about 20% of the time it thinks the speed limit is some sign it read on a slip road.

I had a test drive of an ID4 and it was even worse with the touch screens and general car trying to take over driving and nagging at me. Was fine on the motorway or on the road near the car show room, but i took it down a couple of minor roads and the car was a joke to drive there.

So if the car didnt let me go faster than the speed limit id be trundling along the motorway at 60kmh read from a slip road exit i passed and not be able to speed up. Who comes up with this sh1t?

Then if you could turn it off its probably a few taps on touchscreens and menus and confirmation dialogues. You might as well play solitaire on your phone you would be looking at the screen for that long while driving.

These things are in no way for safety. They actually make driving far, far more dangerous. So there must be some agenda behind them. Either that or they are hiring people who have never driven to come up with these ideas.

goochy

Manufacturers normally claim with this model that you will be getting lowest possible price so that would suggest price cuts . Think its terrible idea and no incentive for dealers to develope premises . Aherns BMW in kerry will only be able to sell new cars in kerry from 2026 ridiculous

bazz26

They ultimately don't want you buying from a premises though. They want you to buy online - click and collect basically like Tesla. Buying a new car will be like buying a tv, laptop or household appliance.

This setup might work for Tesla because they never had a dealer network to begin with but I cannot see it being attractive for many existing franchise dealers who rely on the used car market as a large revenue stream, unless they setup a separate company just dealing with trade ins against new cars similar to used car supermarkets. It won't be good for customers either who traditionally trade in their old car for a new one, they will get low trade values or be forced to sell their old car elsewhere.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200502#Comment_122200502

Yes I agree 100% and to think NCAP have penalised Dacia for not having these systems in their car giving them 1 star rating for otherwise pretty good cars is an absolute disgrace.

These systems are to be mandatory come 2025 and you won't be able to turn them off but you will for now still have the option to turn off the auto speed control when it reads a speed limit sign.

This is the E.U again and interfering, creating problems that never existed, there should be a focus instead on making drivers safer, more aware and putting them on proper driving courses and there should be more guards on the road catching people on phones and there should be consequence for drivers caught on phones such as 6 points or a ban but if they can play with their cars infotainment and instrument cluster like they're in a car simulator then Insurance companies need to take action and greatly increase premiums on these cars, I believe the increased amount of road deaths the last couple of years is as a result of all this in car entertainment and lets just admit that all these screens and menus are playgrounds for tech and screen addicted people, it's like giving alcohol to alcoholics and in actual fact, cars that actively encourage screen use, going through digital instrument cluster menus is as bad or probably worse than drink driving, having your eyes off the road at 120 Km/h is a lot of road not seen by the driver or at 80 km/h on a back road with endless bends is enough to cross the line and potentially kill someone.

As I said, the likes of travel assist has real benefits on the motorway especially but it encourages people to become complacent and encourages them to use their phones.

I remember being on shift back around 2020 and driving home I used to meet one lad that worked in the same building, he drove a Nissal Leaf 40 Kwh with pro pilot and he'd be driving around 100 Km/h and every time I passed him he'd have his head down and I remember looking in and he'd have his eyes off the road for a long time while just tapping the steering now and then to keep the system happy, I said it to him next time I saw him and he said " is it that obvious" I said yes it is and I told him to cop on that he could kill someone, not to mention that if the car in front braked too hard his car won't be able to stop in time and he was actually surprised " it won't stop" ? he asked. People are nuts.

The problem is how many accidents are these cars causing ?

shimadzu

Dealer margins on a used cars were about 15-30% with the majority in or around 20%. I don't think we will see a reduction in on the road prices by buying direct from VAG so they are set to cannibalize the dealers share. My parents purchased exclusively VAG cars over the last number of decades but I can't see that continuing if they move to an online ordering system unless the service centers can place the order on your behalf which defeats the purpose of switching to this new system.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200886#Comment_122200886

Oh they might give a few k off the cost of very overpriced cars. The cost of them the last few years is absolutely ridiculous.

But you're correct, this move is only to make more money for VW.

goochy

No customer would have to place order . Its supposed to be impartial . Thing is you could test drive a car in Galway but then when you order your car at home.in mayo your car will come from mayo dealer

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200846#Comment_122200846

Yeah so the answer is fight back and don't buy new VW cars.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200848#Comment_122200848

It's not a disgrace. If Dacia did not want to fit enough safety systems or crash protection to their cars then that's their problem, not NCAP's. Some unfortunate soul will suffer due to their cost-cutting.
Some people are idiots and will drive recklessly regardless of what technology is in a car.

ADAS systems save lives, and reduce the severity vehicle related accidents in some categories. There are numerous studies supporting the same.
Here's one example:
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/eng-2021-0097/html?lang=en

The reality, whether you want to admit it or not, is that new cars are significantly safer than old cars, through advancements in crash testing, material science development to enhance crash protection, and pushing for more safety systems. NCAP played and will continue to play an important role in pushing car manufacturers to make cars safer, no institution is perfect but they're doing a great job.

It's also good for competition and benefits the consumer. Do ADAS systems make cars more expensive? Yes, however the benefits of reduced mortality, reduced severity of injuries and reduced costs to healthcare systems justify the slight increase in car prices.

Some systems are not calibrated/coded properly and there is certainly improvement to be made across the board, but companies are refining these systems through continuous iterative development.

The problem is how many accidents are these cars causing ?
It's impossible to answer as there would need to be an investigation into every cars data log after an accident. Evidence from insurance companies and studies strongly support that vehicles fitted with ADAS/AEB systems make an overall positive impact on road safety.

Casati

Skoda dealer in munster was saying that trade-in's will be valued by VAG centrally and then they are available to the dealer network to buy at an internal auction- so Skoda offer you 10k for your 4 year old Octavia, then the dealer goes into an auction to buy it - maybe bidding say 12k and giving VW group a bonus markup of 2k on that trade-in's.

He thinks they will auction off non VW group cars in a more open trade auction. All new cars will be delivered by your local specified dealer - and the dealer will get a fixed fee for handling the handover and doing the PDI etc.

I have seen massive delta in trade-in offers from VW dealers- trading a two yr old VW I got trade in offers between 36k and 43k - I'm guessing with he new model the trade-in price you get will be rock bottom and of course no room to play dealers off each other.

I'm sure savy dealers will find a way to make money but the real benefit seems to be for VW group. Cant see a single advantage for the punter

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201885#Comment_122201885

You Sound like you work for Bosch…….

Nonsense, the more automation the more people feel they can relax and look at their phones.

Most of this tech is just annoying and most people turn it off.

There's a reason road deaths and accidents are increasing……………

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202406#Comment_122202406

Association does not imply causation.

If road deaths increase in one year, it doesn't mean that a specific factor, ADAS as you say, contributed to this increase.

Since 2003, there are approx. 1 million extra vehicles on our roads, up from 1.9M - 2.9M. Since 2014 approximately around 500k extra vehicles on our roads.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f392d-bulletin-of-vehicle-and-driver-statistics/

In 2003 our population was approximately 4 million, today its approximately 5.2 million.
Our population in 2016 was approximately 4.6 million, today somewhere in the region of 5.2million, an extra 500k people.

Yet accidents and road deaths are trending downwards despite the substantial increase in vehicles on our roads, and population. It's important to note that ADAS technology isn't the only factor that improved figures. Better roads, more road safety campaigns etc also helped.

In fact, 24 out of 30 counties in the EU seen a decrease in road deaths, taking an average of 2017-2019 compared to average from 2023.
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/0410/1442258-rising-road-deaths-why-is-ireland-bucking-the-european-trend/

You're trying to attribute ADAS for the increase yet providing no evidence to support your claims, nor are you considering the other factors. I guess that doesn't suit your narrative.
Ignorant of facts.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201953#Comment_122201953

But Vw have no entitlement to insist on them being the only trade in option. Firstly you have all the other manufacturers for new cars and secondly, you have the the independents and as is now the case, most main dealers have an independent sales outlet so even if vw somehow didn't allow their dealers to buy returning pcp cars from customers (I don't think they can stop this anyway), what is to stop aanother section of the dealer in same ownership from buy direct from customer.

At the end of the day, the general market will decide and there won't be an extra 2 or 3k there for vw to just soak up.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202842#Comment_122202842

Lol, you're ignorant if you think all the tech in cars + infotainment is not having an impact, they can't prove mobile phone use is causing crashes how are they going to know all the in car entertainment is not having an impact , how are they going to prove someone was fumbling through spotify playlists or trying to adjust the climate through menus at the time of impact ? that's an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203244#Comment_122203244

I never stated that there were no deaths or accidents caused by infotainment use, or ADAS systems.

What I am saying is that there's no evidence to support your claim that the significant increase of more complex car infotainment, and increasing prevalence of more advanced ADAS systems in modern cars has led to an increase in deaths or collisions.
Data shows a decrease in deaths and accident related injuries despite the significant increase of vehicles in the national fleet and population.
https://data.gov.ie/dataset/roa27-traffic-collisions-and-casualities

Liam2021

I think some people did not have a good experience with their VW cars and this is showing in all the negative comments, not all people have had a negative experience with all the new tech in cars. There is also no evidence that this new tech is causing more deaths on the road.

Is there any chance the Mods can move this conversation back to the original topic and let the negative comments have a different page.

Vw moving to a direct sales model.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203746#Comment_122203746

I agree 100%, it reads like an Angela McNamara agony column.

No wonder folks leave this site when there is so much off topic verbal diarrhoea tolerated.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203625#Comment_122203625

I suppose in car tech is really wonderful surely it can't have an impact on accidents ? How long before car manufacturers get sued ?

There's a reason mobile phone use in cars is illegal, why should playing with the infotainment or instrument cluster be treated any differently ? or having the car's functions such as climate, radio etc all be controlled by the screen ?

What do we do next, create even more advances systems so people can play with these systems safely ? lol

https://www.hupy.com/library/car-infotainment-system-dangers.cfm#:~:text=A%20study%20by%20IAM%20RoadSmart,or%20cannabis%20use%20while%20driving.

https://www.kffjlaw.com/blog/the-hidden-dangers-of-car-infotainment-systems/

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203761#Comment_122203761

And you're toxic diarrhoea. Following people around forums trolling.

Liam2021

Can we get back on topic.

Vw moving to a direct sales model

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202913#Comment_122202913

Say an independent dealer takes in a VW trade. They would then have to sell that person a used vehicle or another brand and all the brands apart from the japs and Koreans are moving to agency or give them cash.

The reality is that most drivers stay brand loyal, especially those on the new every three years pcp merry go round. VW will completely own the sub 5yo VW group market.

One thing interesting about the agency model is that if done correctly it can really reduce the amount of stock a dealer is carrying. Correctly done, internal auctions would essentially be able to deliver any flavour of used VW to order to any dealer. Tell your dealer you want a tiguan 2yo comfort line sub 30k km in black and he will very easily be able to get it for you and you can even set a ceiling on what you will pay.