Irish Rail New Proposed Timetable - August 2024

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794398#Comment_122794398

On more than one occasion, I’ve seen a northbound Enterprise arrive into Drogheda, only for the guard to get off the train for a smoke break and lock the door with their carriage key to make sure the train doesn’t leave without them. That almost certainly causes the train to run late. I still sometimes feel like there’s an attitude within the public transport companies that they’re run for the benefit of the staff rather than the passengers they carry. But it is starting to change.

lawred2

Another morning. Same old old/new/amended timetable. More delays.

830 dart southbound nowhere to be seen at Portmarnock with no ETA on any of the screens. Just 'delayed'. And no real time updates in the app either.

This service is literally on its knees and I don't see anything meaningful in the pipeline to improve things.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794494#Comment_122794494

What's the evidence for change?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794398#Comment_122794398

I'm pretty sure IR have to pay fines to the NTA for trains running late.

antimatterx

Delete

Daith

Fines to the NTA have always interested me. It's the same with other transport bodies like Dublin Bus.

But nothing benefits the actual people using these services and who are the ones impacted. Not even so much as a free trip.

lawred2

Delays across the board again.

They might as well do away with timetables

Glaceon

I’m sure this would be an unpopular option for those commuting southside but would it make sense from an operational point of view to terminate Maynooth and Drogheda trains in Connolly and make more use of platforms 1-4? It would free up 5-7 for DARTs.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122799610#Comment_122799610

Would create more path conflicts as they still have to cross active lines to get out

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794494#Comment_122794494

You sure that’s not just standard procedure, and him making use of that time for a smoke?
The driver closes the doors on signal from the guard, who leaves his own door open. Then he closes his door and signals the driver again, and driver can then take power.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794398#Comment_122794398

to be fair intercity, suburban and others are sometimes the same operator in the UK depending on the area.
and they had their version of our august timetable but on a grand scale,
the infamous may timetable a few years ago.
things definitely aren't rosey over there either even though they will do the odd thing better, not that that excuses our **** show by any means.

icdg

They will be going back to a single state run operator soon, or at least that’s the current UK Government’s stated intention (whether it happens or not in the end is another thing). At any rate that system has far more flaws than it does benefits.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122801267#Comment_122801267

Good ol British rail, that was our Honeymoon journey to Scotland in 1980. They need BR like a hole in the head. Better to put the money into contracted service subsidies, keep the fares down and encourage the numbers up on the lesser used services.

My occasional forays over there on sail rail have all been successful and very fast, though my last few were in 2019. I tend to visit the UK now with Don Coffey on YouTube, though I took a YT spin last night from Köln to Frankfurt on the ICE. 320kph At times. Jeez.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122801427#Comment_122801427

to be fair while there were a lot of issues with british rail, they did get a hell of a lot done in it's mid to later existance, granted that often wasn't always noticible to the users and lots of it was

often against the odds.

by the time they were privatized in the 90s they were actually starting to get it right across the board so to speak and had they not been privatized it generally seems to be recognised that the british rail system would be in a much healthier place with a lot more of the projects needing doing done.

unfortunately contracted services and low fares won't go together as the contractor does have to make a profit and ultimately the british government don't want to pay the subsidy levels to allow both to co-exist which is understandable to be fair as they would probably be a lot higher then now.

renationalisation assuming it happens is the best compromise with open access operators existing along side where viable, and you can either go for a not for profit or a for profit but not for dividend model as examples.

the ownership of the track is already nationalised and parts of the system are already run by a nationalised operator as it is such as the northern rail services.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122811054#Comment_122811054

Well said. There's no doubt the old nationalised creaking BR money pit model was not viable, but a fully privatized unsubsidised model left few affordable alternatives other than private road transport. A level of hands off state intevention can have a positive effect. Not paying wage bills, but underpinning base running costs and infrastructure, and allowing diverse services to establish and grow.

I can see the benefits of the TFI model where I live, I'm amazed at the groups of people at bustops on rural roads and areas that never seen a bus in their existence. Perhaps Irish rail need some kind of internalised competitive and target based reorganisation into specific services. It's hard to envisage, yet there is an opportunity for such a model to exist, I'm sure there are people who can achieve this instead of the state just pouring money into wage claims.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122811187#Comment_122811187

well, it depends on what and where you mean unviable.
the old BR was actually far from a money pitt over all, certainly at the start due to government policy including the common carrier obligation, and being forced to only buy equipment from british suppliers, a lot of money was wasted, but that's for another thread.
but once that was sorted actually BR was far from a money pit and was one of, if not the most subsidy efficient operator in europe.
subsidy efficient now not over all efficient, all though to be fair as i said by the 90s they were starting to get rid of old mindsets and start getting things right across the board.
britain doesn't have a non-subsidized model, it actually has quite a high subsidy model which is a mix of direct and indirect subsidy, that subsidy being way higher even now then what british rail got.

if british rail got even half of what the british railway is getting today in subsidy it could actually have been quite likely a much much better operation then what exists now but it's water under the bridge at this stage.
the TFI model is full on state hands on control, the NTA decide everything with only the operator maintaining and driving the buses.
with any PSO operations the state will be paying the wage whether it be directly or indirectly as will we via our fares, that's just unavoidable.

deezell

They're having protests in Belfast against the new hourly Belfast service. It seems the Fenian Express is not to the liking of the residents of Sandy Row, (where else?), obviously waking then before their normal rising time of maybe 11.00, or 12.00. To counter this attack on their identity and lie-ins, they've deployed the Fr.Ted method, loyalist style, with a motley crew of apprentice boy drummers marching symbolically (or bolics with cymbals?) alongside virtual trains.

The 'Irish News' up there has some interesting comments

https://archive.is/q669t

I'm assuming though that disruption to their commute to, er, 'work' is not an issue for most of these lads, as the welfare office is just around the corner.

There's no doubt the introduction of the service is heavily politically motivated, and the sacrifice of the Dublin commuters was considered necessary collateral damage for the rushed introduction. I'd be curious to hear SF's take on this on the hustings, though they've never knocked on my door in all their years.

Polar101

64.5% punctuality (October stats) on the DART and pretty low on anything else that goes near Connolly station. Seems about right.

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/train-punctuality-reliability-performance

Exiled Rebel

The Portlaoise Heuston commuter doesn't get much of a mention on this thread. As someone who lived in London up to last year I cannot get over how bad announcements both at platform level and on the trains are. It's pot luck if the blind or deaf get on or off the correct train or station.

Add to that, services are consistently late since the new timetable was implemented. You could very easily get on an intercity train given how fecking useless the platform announcements are. In addition information screens at some stations like portlaoise are non existent. It's a total shambles.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122828975#Comment_122828975

I want to see "peak time" stats - the published stats are padded out by weekend and off-peak services that run fine while the peak time is a complete ****-show.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122830050#Comment_122830050

Yeah, and a service is not "late" in the stats unless it's more than 5 minutes late. Which is annoying when the services are always a couple of minutes late anyway.

Have to say, the 19:17 to Maynooth did actually depart at 19:17. But that required a late platform change for the Howth DART.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122830050#Comment_122830050

Dart AM was 84%, PM was 62%, North 85% and 57%, Maynooth 89% and 51%, Heuston 84% and 62%.

bikeman1

Also bear in mind the stats relate to the arrival time into the terminus station. So Howth or Bray or wherever. Good chance many make up a few minutes on the far end of their journey, particularly on Dart, so you could be 9 minutes late hopping off at Tara St but it makes up 4 minutes to its destination and is deemed "on time".

Jamie2k9

Off peak Maynooth departures are on P1, P3, P4, P7. They should really try to return to a degree of consistancy here particularly not using P1 unless really necessary.

patrickc

I was on a dart at peak time yesterday evening that was 15 mins late. There was apologies on the public announcements "for operational reasons"

Polar101

https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2024/11/22/punctuality-of-trains-at-connolly-continues-to-decline/

Barry Kenny, spokesman for Irish Rail, said this autumn had been particularly difficult in terms of low rail adhesion. He said the mild, damp start to November was “not wonderful” for efforts to tackle the problem.

But he said with the leaves now almost down, improvements to the scheduling on the routes in and out of Connolly would be noticeable over coming weeks.

Low rail adhesion can't be used as an excuse for delays in a few weeks. Let's see if punctuality will actually improve (I wouldn't hold my breath).

I wish Irish Rail would provide reliable information whether a train is late or not - today I was waiting for yet another train that wasn't delayed in the Irish rail / TFI apps, but it hadn't even arrived at the terminus by the time it was supposed to depart.

lordleitrim

Yeah..got the Sligo train today as far as Dromod for first time ever. I normally drive but decided to test the train. We were stopped in Maynooth for 15 minutes due to late arrival of the incoming Sligo train which the driver apologises for 5 times over the intercom (once would be enough)but then we were stopped for another 15 minutes at Longford with complete silence and no apology. I arrived 35 minutes late added to the hour I needed to get a train from my suburb to Connolly to catch the Sligo train in a timely manner. I could have done door to door in my car in just under 2 hours but using public transport took me 4 hours. Can folks understand why car is considered king?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122872839#Comment_122872839

With the Sligo line being single track west of Maynooth, it is susceptible to delays if anything goes wrong unfortunately.

dowlingm

have been catching up on this thread.

I note the comments re Connolly platforms and the constraint selling adjacent lands has caused. But it should be remembered that a large portion of Northern Line traffic isn’t supposed to be going through Connolly any more but around it, on Interconnector. The decision to forgo a massive additional capacity through the city means that IE have to make the best of bad choices, and for a long time to come.

that said, I also note Rail Users Ireland comments on Twitter as this roll out has progressed in respect of chronically late terminal departures of commuter services causing mayhem further in. Whatever about LRA or Connolly signals, what can possibly excuse day after day of late departures? Is it that drivers are not ready on time, that the trains are not ready in good time from overnight servicing, or what?

REDBULL68

Sligo line is full of gate crossings from farmers fields to the next ,many times the train used to stop so the driver had to close the gates to proceed as the farmers forget to secure them.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122876777#Comment_122876777

I have been on the Sligo line a lot this year, and this has not been my experience.

I do think the timings are a little bit too tight though. I have been on many trains which seem to be going at full speed, but still lose a minute here and a minute there. These minutes build up over the day due to the line being single track since there isn't sufficient recovery time built into the timetable.

thomasj

Automated announcement at Clonsilla station just now

"We're sorry to announce that the 15.59 service to Connolly (Maynooth line ) is delayed by approximately 17 minutes due to flooding on the line at Boyle"

I heard a woman say "where the hell is Boyle?"

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122878478#Comment_122878478

On the back of your neck? Sligo train doesn't even stop at Clonsilla, but no doubt they held back the inbound commuter at Maynooth rather than letting it out ahead of the precious intercity, (Sligo not even a City).

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122878545#Comment_122878545

🤣 I Absolutely agree though . Would've made more sense to announce "due to late arrival of an incoming train at Maynooth" or even send the inbound Maynooth train ahead. If they're can't be taking it out on those that aren't .

Polar101

..and after that you'll get "We're sorry to announce that the 17.00 (or so) service to Connolly is delayed by approximately 20 minutes due to earlier operational difficulties". Never let a real excuse go to waste when announcing delays.

At least they announced a delay - like I said, it's quite annoying when you can see the Sligo train is delayed, you'll know the Maynooth commuter train will also be delayed, but it's "on time" according to Irish Rail.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122876760#Comment_122876760

Drivers are ready. Drivers don't control the signals, or the paths of trains.

Glaceon

I saw a post on one of the Facebook groups sharing the Irish Times article on the continuing punctuality issues. I raised the idea of abandoning the hourly Enterprise but was met with the reply that IE should instead "strip out one in three DARTs" because they're blocking the other services. I suppose that depends on what your idea is of what the railway should provide. Is it a high-capacity commuter line or a lower capacity intercity one? Without quad-tracking the northern line, I think something has to give.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122877504#Comment_122877504

Farmer's gates left open doesn't block the train from proceeding, it reduces the train's speed, and creates a safety issue. As happened in Mayo last year. A lot of farmers just don't care.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/09/09/two-injured-following-collision-between-car-and-train-in-co-mayo/

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122885633#Comment_122885633

Ballyhaunis is not on the Sligo line though. My experience in about 40 trips this year on the Sligo line is that this has not happened, so it its not what is causing the problem day in and day out.

The problem is that even if the train is travelling at a steady 70 MPH, it is still losing a minute here and a minute there. I think another look needs to be taken at the timings. While they may work in theory, they do not work in practice. I suspect this was the the problem with the new timetable in August. It is not enough that timetables work when everything works 100%, they should have enough slack in them that they don't fall to pieces when the slightest thing goes wrong.

lordleitrim

Single track is the main offender and waiting for a delayed oncoming train to pass. Happened to me again (same story on Friday heading to Dromod) last night on my return train from Dromod to Connolly with 2 15 minute pauses at Longford and Mullingar. Missed my connecting train to my suburb (which I was supposed to have 15 minutes lead time to connect with) and had to hang around freezing Platform 7 for another 30 minutes for the next. Not fun!

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886398#Comment_122886398

The same issue applies to accomodation crossings, whether they are Sligo or Mayo. They are often left open and they slow trains down, but this is already factored into the timetable, and journey times. Last year I was on two trips that involved emergency stops due to farmers driving onto the tracks in front of a train.

But as mentioned, single track is the worst issue for causing delays. More passing loops are needed on the Sligo line, and signallers need access to real time location, and not just section block.

The August timetable was designed using theory. People who drive the trains weren't even asked for any input.

Citizen Six

Closure announced for the Christmas/New Year period. No trains between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock from the 27th December until the 5th of Jan. With a few exceptions. Some people may have already noticed the night time prep works on the Loopline bridge. First track renewal in 20 years.

thomasj

Yeah Northside services running out of Connolly, Southside running out of GCD.

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/major-works-connolly-to-grand-canal-dock%2C-26th-dec

Exceptions will be :

New Years eve at 23:00 onwards - Southside services running out of Pearse

2nd & 3rd jan between 06:00-18:00 - Southside services running out of Pearse

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122887993#Comment_122887993

Do we know if the P5/6 crossover will be renewed and the 10mph lifted.

ILikeBoats

My train is consistently 4 - 6 mins late getting into Connolly every time I take it.

loyatemu

my Dart yesterday left Greystones 10 minutes late. I'd have thought the practical thing in those circumstances would be to run the following service, which departs from Bray, early to fill the now empty slot.

Obviously they didn't do this so there was a 20 minute gap in services, which got bigger as my train got delayed at every station from Dun Laoghaire onwards because it was jammed full and people couldn't get on, not helped by it being a 6-car train. Arrived in Pearse over 20 minutes down, no apology or explanation.

I don't think I've arrived in town in the morning less than 10 minutes late since September.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890902#Comment_122890902

Irish Rail are chronically poor at service recovery, and making a service become another service seems to slip their mind - they can and do do it, but extremely, extremely rarely.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122889125#Comment_122889125

I'm not sure, but I'd imagine the crossover will be renewed as part of the works. Can't see the 10mph being lifted though. There's lots of small things that could be done to improve delays built into the system, but they seem hesitant to change them.

thomasj

No services currently north of connolly due to a signalling fault this evening

Maynooth and Hazelhatch also suffering delays from this

antimatterx

Just got a train from Portmarnock, so they must be back.