Analysis of Star Trek Discovery Series as a whole

liamtech

I binge watched Discovery Season 5, over the last 48 odd hours – i didnt spend the full required time, i tended to fast forward quite a bit of it – All i can say is that it was Ghastly – I did get me thinking though – and I thought a few questions would be worth asking here

Is Discovery the worst Star Trek Series?

My answer would have to be yes. Broadly speaking, i never thought a series would be able to shift Enterprise away from being the default weakest series of Trek. But Discovery was abysmal. The writing was poor, and seemed to get worse as the series progressed. The choice of making everything Burnham centric was ridiculous, bordering on being laughable most of the time.

Compared to Enterprise, Discovery had few if any re-watchable ‘High Points’ – I often rewatch my Favourite Enterprise eps (twighlight, the Romulan/vulcan arc from S4, and the high points of the Xindi Arc) – I cant really see myself ever returning to discovery – there were one or two episodes early on that were memorable (returning to Talos perhaps stands out) – but these high points are just swamped by the over arching seasons

If i look at other modern shows, Picard, SNW, LD – again i just think they are all better than Discovery – not quite relevent but i will say, i would rate Enterprise above Picard but below SNW – just saying!

What was the best season of Discovery?

In my opinion the first season was the best – simply by default – i expected that the series would get better as it progressed – that had always been the case with Star Trek Tv shows – paradoxically, for me – It actually got worse – i would struggle not to rank the seasons, from good to bad – 1,2,3,4,5 – we could debate moving Season 2, to the first slot – MAYBE? I have a grudging admiration considering it spawned Strange New Worlds – But the over all arc of Season 2, was annoyingly concluded – so for me i will stick to my guns on this one

What Went Wrong?

The writers have to take the blame, IMHO – They took an unknown character, and rather than building her up slowly, with her gaining a fan following – they simply told the fans, you must like this character – and they did this by making the entire show, the ship, the crew, galactic events of consequence, and almost every plot line, revolve around her

The over all season arcs were also VERY poor in my view – the burn, ugh – they literally wreck the federation so Michael can save it – but even as a conceot it was deplorable in my view

Is it really over?

Were i not an atheist i would pray they do not return to discovery – i dont want cross overs with other shows, and i absolutely dont want to see any more of the Discovery Era -

Sadly i think it will be back in some fashion – there are enough ‘Shills’ reviewing this show, and giving it ludicrously high marks, compared to other trek -

Id be really interested in others opinions – specifically id like to find out if anyone thinks it is NOT the worst of the TV series – if anyone is sad to see it go – and really what everyone thinks of the series

LambshankRedemption

I will echo many of your thoughts. Ive not watched Series 5 yet. Actually, I dont think I finished 4 yet.

Rewatching ENT recently the first season was very ropey, it kind of found itself around season 4 though.

The first interaction Michael has with Tilly, she says her name is Michael,

Tilly: "Oh the only woman Ive heard of called Michael is the mutineer, you're not her are you heeheehee!.

Michael:<Signature Penetrating Stare>

Tilly: Oh **** you are.

Here in the 21st century, females called Michael is not unheard of. I know at least one. So, in the 25th century you are trying to tell me that it is soo unusual that the only female called Michael would be famous for disobeying an order in Starfleet. Give me a break!

Trying to be edgy was DISCs downfall.

One episode I do enjoy rewatching is the time-loop episode with Mr Mudd. It's a one off episode, not really part of the general story Arc.

Redesigning how Klingons look was a mistake in my opinion.

Retconning Michael as Spocks never-before-heard-of sister was all manner of strange.

I really liked Tilly. I liked her as a character, and could see her go on to do good stuff. But then..

Then they move the show to 1000 years in the future.

I was a big fan of the first season of SeaQuest DSV. It did what they did with DISC, make it more woke, back before woke was a word, and when they couldn't think of doing anything else, popped it into a future environment where the norms no longer apply.

Roy Scheider is quoted as saying "You're turning it into SciFi trash".

Thats what happened with DISC.

pixelburp

I dunno, surely at this stage Disco's faults and flaws have been thoroughly shaken down and highlighted across other threads?

At this stage it feels like a case where everyone just moves on and we pretend the show never happened.

DoctorEdgeWild

I think if you include LD as a Trek series then it comes out bottom for me, but there's an argument to say that it's aiming for a different audience so maybe it's harsh to judge it that way.

DIS is definitely bottom of the pile for the real series' though. So much wrong, most of which has been gone over a million times. As above poster, I'm definitely pretending it never happened, even though it kind of 'gave birth' to SNW which would be on it's way towards the top-ish of the table.

shootermacg

I just couldn't get over Burnham, she acted like someone on the verge of a nervous breakdown all the bloody time.

Burnham what time is it? [Tears welling up in her eyes, lip quivering] It's ten o'clock. I think she ruined the show, although I also do not like a lot of other characters. It's like as if the kids on barney grew up and became the crew.  

eadrom

Is Discovery the worst Star Trek Series?

Yes. And I think you're right too that it got worse each year. 1 > 2> 3 > 4 > 5.

What was the best season of Discovery?

First one. (Faint praise).

What Went Wrong?

Well, everything really.

Maybe most of all, the constant lack of confidence in their own decisions. Every season just felt like another attempt to address the feedback from the fans. Klingons back to normal and out of the picture. The captain should be the star of the show (or the star of the show should be the captain). Switching from a prequel to the far future. It's not that I particularly liked those things the way they were, but I didn't like an old bald captain or a Star Trek show on a space station either.

But Disco never gave itself a chance. From about mid-way through the first season, it started to feel like they were designing a product to the whims of the audience, still poorly mind you, rather than having any sense of vision or (dare I even say it) artistic integrity.

The writing was bad but I suspect the real blame lies with the show-runners or higher up the production chain. The 10 - 13 part blockbuster-movie style of Television doesn't suit Star Trek, and I think evidently it doesn't suit the types of stories Star Trek writers want to tell. What little glimmers of interest there were in the series had to fight against this unnecessary momentum of everything needing to so immediately important and immensely exciting. It's a bad fit, and I think did more damage than the focus on a single character, or anything else really. You can excuse a lot of silly Star Trek stories when they're not amped up into a universe shattering most exciting ever event.

Is it really over?

Hope so. That ending in season 5, showing a future Burnham, was a strange choice if they ever plan to show her again in a contemporary (or whatever) setting. But I guess for these writers "a strange choice" doesn't rule anything out.

Looks like we're going to be getting that Academy show anyway, so despite my hopes I doubt it will be the last we see of 32nd Century Trek.

TheValeyard

I gave up on Discovery during S4. And I consider myself a bit of a mad Trek fan. Just could not stick with it. Might try again in a few years time.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202687#Comment_122202687

Yea i think we will all move on. But it warrants some discussion - we are talking about a show which we all wanted to succeed. And i guess im remembering a time when we had no Star Trek on TV at all - then excitement as its coming back - for me the first season was optimistic, and i defended a lot of decisions - because i felt the show would get better -

I compare waking up on the morning of an episode drop, during season 1- with where we were in season 4 and 5 - loathing, and just wanting it to end!

I was going to give my thoughts on each episode of season 5, but to be honest, its just not worth it. It was a terrible season. Part of me expected they might pull something off in season 5, and it might go out with a bang - but it didnt.

But the show itself perhaps warrants some sort of over all postmortem - thats what i feel. And i am curious to see if anyone disagrees with it being worst Tv Series

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202844#Comment_122202844

Yea i didnt watch season 5 weekly - i just couldnt be bothered - and i struggled hard with season 4 - Like you im an insane trekkie, i have (as of 4 hours ago, seen the entire franchise

Maybe just binge watch it for completion, thats what i did

AMKC

In Season 1 you could forgive Discovery for some of it's shortcomings as it was supposedly finding it feet but I think the problem is that it just never got better. It got worse and worse as each Season went on. Its like it went from finding its feet to constantly being on drugs. They were trying to hard. Everything was about Micheal and there was no crew working together.

I did not watch any of Season 4 and think I missed nothing. I watched all the other seasons do.

I would rank it 1,2,3,5,4 from what I heard of Season 4 and the little bit I watched. I would say Season 4 was worse than Season 5 but that's like saying having AIDS is better than having Cancer.

Redesigning how Klingons look was a mistake in my opinion.

I agree totally.

Retconning Michael as Spocks never-before-heard-of sister was all manner of strange.

And another mistake just so they could say oh Look its the great Micheal Burnham show related to the great Spock. Get away out of here with that.

GreeBo

I performed a detailed series review, summary is below.

FutureGuy

Discovery took a lot of sh!te. Rightly so.

My biggest gripe was one that I picked up on from the first season.

It's completely un-rewatchable.

I mean there isn't a single episode that, if it were on TV, I'd rewatch. It was all so vapid. I think things did turn for the better when they went to the 32nd century but only because we got something new, and the 10-c arc was very good. Really like Book as a character.

But I will be forever grateful to Discovery for showing that - 1) Trek was ready to come back to the small screens and 2) we don't want you to reimagine our Klingons, our propulsion methods or our tone in future series.

Bellbottoms

I thought Season Two and Three were an improvement on the first. I really expected big things from the show once they were no longer constrained by 60 years of cannon. But alas no.

I think my biggest issue with the show is MB. She is just a Mary Sue, in a way she is like Spock. But where as Spock was a joint lead on TOS and in the movies. Whos legacy sort of perminates all the following Trek. Burnham is like the main charecter in the universe. No problem she cannot solve. No ship at warp she cannot hold on to. The only thing that can stop or slow her down is feelings.

Making her Spocks sibling was an awful idea. Up there with the Klingons being over designed. I still maintain the worst thing in the entire show was Spock explaining that the Federation could just never talk about Discovery. That any one who did would be executed.

I appreciate how shows are written and acting styles change over time. But I never felt that the crew of Disco were serious professional.

I never liked Tilly, I found her a bit to frivilous. I find Mary Wiseman pretty obnoxious. But she didn't deserve the fat shaming. Tilly setting ship half marathon records did not help.

I did like the Stamets Culver extended family. It didn't feel forced and should have been explored a little more in the show. But with better actors for the kids.

The spore drive. That was just a dumb idea. Same with Section 31. Everyone seems to know who they are.

It is very frustrating to look at the show and think about what could have been done and how much better it could have been.

FutureGuy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203034#Comment_122203034

Now you made me remember Ian Alexander. Why would you do that.

Flinty997

I agree totally with all the criticisms above, every single one. It's unwatchable. I tried very hard to get into it multiple times. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time trying.

TheValeyard

Season two was good but that's mostly thanks to the introduction of Captain Pike (which is why we ended up with Strange New Worlds) . The story for S2 was fine until it turned into Burnham saves the universe and the massive S31 secret shhhh fleet.

Rawr

Loads of tremedious agruments and insights, which I don’t think I can improve in any way.

Is Discovery the worst Trek show? Yes. But for me, it was never due to any kind of silly «woke» agenda argument, nor even the writing actually. Don’t get me wrong, it was also the worst written Trek show, but Discovery comitted one sin from it’s inseption that pretty much insured that it would never compare well to other Trek shows made before or since.

All other Trek projects have one simple thing going for them, that Discovery didn’t have. A settled show concept.

-TOS & TNG are essentially the same show. Exploration / adventure space opera on a starship.

• DS9 is a space western on a far-flung near-lawless outpost.
• Voyager is pretty much Gilligans Island with a Neelix
• Enterprise attempted to redo TOS / TNG with a prequel twist.

But Discovery? They didn’t seem to know their core concept. The entire early development was in flux and went from antology series to a war biopic to a cobbled clone of TOS (with TOS Characters) to yet another cobbled clone of Voyager to whatever the hell Seasons 4 & 5 were supposed to be. Add that to a design language where they clearly couldn’t decide if the show was in the Kelvin universe or not.

Instead of sticking to a concept they flapped about in the wind and reacted to fan feedback. They ultimatly settled on on single unifying concept; that their main character would be the be-all and end-all to everything they did. It was a maddening move and even if Martin-Green had the acting chops to carry such a role (she doesn’t) the writers hadn’t the skill to make it work.

But what is the legacy? This show is Trek’s marmite, it will have lovers & haters. Will age help improve our outlook of it, like with Voyager & Enterprise? Maybe…but I very much doubt it, especially if better Trek is made after this.
Some people might credit this show for bringing Trek back to TV. I might counter, that if they hadn’t spun off to make Lower Decks, Picard or SNW, then Discovery could have permanently killed off Trek on TV. The other shows are what kept good will in the franchise going. They are what may keep Trek on TV, while Discovery deserves criticism for not wrapping up on Season 3 when they had clearly run out of ideas.

Will there be a Trek show that could rival Discovery for the title of “worst”? I honestly hope not. I hope at very least that Discovery can be used as an example of what not to do when making Trek.

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058353892/analysis-of-star-trek-discovery-series-as-a-whole

Series 5, painful to watch, just painful. Worst captain, it's like watching sasame street cos playing.

ilovesmybrick

I could list a large number of problems, both within the show itself and outside the show in some of the discussions surrounding it. Though it gave us SNW which really did convince me that there could still be decent Trek, and then LD and the final season of Picard were pretty good. I honestly thought it could kill the franchise, or perhaps more likely my interest in the franchise, stone dead.

• The spore drive. Yeah, it was kind of interesting briefly to see a new experimental drive, got some good episodes of TNG and Voyager with that concept. But I think it has the same problem I have with the new instant transportation, everything is immediate and you miss the slower down time and reflection of characters walking corridors, or the tension of the ship taking hours to get somewhere.
• Michael Burnham. I think the show thinks that we should look back at all the troubles Michael has gone through and she has reached great success through redemption. But I don't recall it that way at all. She was redeemed far too quickly, promoted from prisoner to Captain despite being surrounded by far better officers and far more experienced officers who for some reason defer to her, and most of her troubles all come from,as far back as the pilot, her own incredibly poor decisions.
• The design and look of the ship. Only topped by the design and look of all the 32nd century ships, which are simply shocking. Awful things and that is unforgiveable for a Star Trek show. The design in general, but I hate that stupid com badge tricorder thing. Don't like those holographic displays, which also look far more difficult to work with than a handhold device. And those bloody pips were impossible to see at times.
• The pretty poor development of the bridge crew and secondary cast.
• The lack of universe building. It felt small, too small, and I think that may in part relate to the spore drive. Despite hopping all over the galaxy, it just always felt that it was taking place in a very small space, DS9 felt more expansive, despite being mostly confined to a space station.
• The writing. It was unbelievably cack handed in places. Show, don't tell. It also seemed like the writers had a pretty poor awareness of the general Trek universe, or storylines.
• I was not aware of SMG before this show, and I'm sure she's a pleasant woman and decent actor. But I could not stand her in this, especially towards the end. The whispering, good god. A lot of this goes to the writing in general, and the character, but since this show was solely focused on Burnham that's an awful lot for one actor to carry. I probably wouldn't have noticed as much if some of the other cast had more of their own screen time, but they didn't, and even when they did it somehow revolved around Burnham.
• Even at the worst of Picard I did watch the shows as soon as I could, and paid attention. I was completely zoned out of this and not massively bothered. While it had been poor beforehand, by the time we got to the burn ending I stopped giving a s**t about what was going on. The main plotlines were obviously stupid, and there was bugger all B storylines that were anyways interesting.

Very poor and don't see myself going back to it. I rewatched season 1 just before the start of season 2 to catch myself up, it was not fantastic, but grand. Don't think I've given any episode a second watch since then.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203230#Comment_122203230

Season 2 part 1 was good and then during a mid season break it just turns Red Angel into Burnham's mother and completely pivots to that Control story shte.

IRL its because the writers were dumped half way through.

Those first few Red Angel episodes was the best the show got.

Its mad that it got so so bad that I look back now and pine for the potential that the early Lorca episodes had. Ya it was dark but it could have been its own show at least.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203066#Comment_122203066

Sorry. But tbf it is probably the last time you will see them. Their work on Disco was not a great showcase.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203394#Comment_122203394

Wait, what really? They dumped the writers? Any idea why?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203394#Comment_122203394

Now that you remind, yes. Season 2 in its first half had me legitimately intrigued and excited, seemed like the show found its footing albeit with a standard Mystery Box.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203594#Comment_122203594

Can't remember but their junior writing team got the job through attrition.

Season 1 had a creative turn half way through.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203813#Comment_122203813

Season one was a bit of a mess with creatives. Bryan Singer is on boards, develops it then quits. Show goes into turnaround. Some of his ideas are kept some are jettisoned. Singer has a history of creative differences with people. So I suppose it is not that suprising.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203034#Comment_122203034

One of the main issues with Tilly is the actor is a hard 10 to 15 years older than the character

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203899#Comment_122203899

I just found Tilly profundly annoying. Maybe it might have been endearing with a younger actress.

breezy1985

Cant figure out they they thought annoying cadet would be a good character to have.

And then made her first officer in probably the dumbest move in the whole of Discovery. She was turning into a good character on occasion and a bit more mature but then they would revert her to a child by sticking her in some stupid new role.

I can't think of a character where they could figure out what to do with them. Adira, Stamets and Saru all got lost when their initial plot finished.

CastorTroy

I tried finding the answer online, but what do the fans of the series enjoy about it?

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204268#Comment_122204268

A lot of the praise I see about it is the up front diversity and that's basically it.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204268#Comment_122204268

I would suggest maybe that a good chunk of Discovery fans had not seen previous Trek before and perhaps even enjoy the producion style used in that show as a rule.

Many of the rest of us are sullied with the knowledge of how much better a Trek show can be, and if you are of a certain age (aka, like myself and likely others here) then you experienced that better Trek in real time during the 80’s & 90’s. We know what it’s like to experience the best of TNG & DS9 as new episodes and we have a way to compare that experience with the experience of watching new Discovery episodes.

New Trekkies watching Discovery from scratch won’t have that comparison and might be inclined to think that what they are watching is good.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204268#Comment_122204268

Head over to TrekBBS and have a look.

Mostly seems like Disco fans love all the emotional crap and seem to think that kind of stuff is more like real life than "stoic" old Trek. Personally me and my friends and workmates don't spend every day crying and pouring out emotions.

I would love to see a demographic breakdown of the fans because I reckon it's got to be primarily young upper middle class Americans.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204751#Comment_122204751

I know Michelle Paradise the main force behind the show started out professionally on a Vampire Diaries spin off and before that was writing Janeway & Chakotay fanfiction and I think Twilight fanfics too if I remember correctly.

Either way this was very much Trek for the Twilight/Hunger Games generation.