Analysis of Star Trek Discovery Series as a whole

CastorTroy

Personally me and my friends and workmates don't spend every day crying and pouring out emotions.

You don't? But how do you function as a team if you don't know every detail about their lives and have that positive reinforcement? I hope you at least look at each other in awe and smile when someone does say something.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204902#Comment_122204902

The only inspiration we took from Discovery is we let one person off to do all the work while the rest of us sit anonymously in the background 🤣

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204820#Comment_122204820

Twilight / Hunger Games generation for sure. But that brings to mind an interesting contrast.

Twilight was a crass surface-level attempt at a vampire romance adventure built on spectacle and announcements of high emotion (without the character development to support it). The writing is retched, but it still had fans, which is also where I guess we find Discovery. Discovery and Twilight do seem to have plenty in common.

However, the othet example The Hunger Games, also made for the same demographic and roughly in the same era, is considerably better done. World building is excellent, as is the cast and much of the writing. There is also plenty wrong with it, and pulling a 2-parter finale deserves scorn (it delights me how the Divergent series crashed out trying that same trick), but as a piece of entertainment, it was pretty good.

Here we have 2 properties marketed to the same group. One is devoid of quality, while in the other they clearly gave it their best shot. In my head this means that the likes of Discovery is not the best we can hope for in new Trek. Regardless of generation targeted , quality is possible if there is a desire to reach for it.

(PS. The Hunger Games prequel is unfortunately absolute tripe. Avoid)

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204820#Comment_122204820

I know quite a few people in Ireland who really love it as well.

I've just come to the conclusion that as long as we still have SNW and Lower Decks, to let them enjoy their things, as long as it's bringing joy to someone. Though I am disappointed that they're still pressing ahead with the likes of "Academy" which just seems like it's going to displace something potentially much better.

pixelburp

Point of order but The Hunger Games (film series) were really well done and the last 2 surprisingly nuanced, mature reflections on the nature of war, propaganda and the morality of violent insurrection.

It's all YA but I think it's reductive to lump Hunger Games in with Discovery, even if the tonal register might sometimes seem similar.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205335#Comment_122205335

Hunger Games is definitely better but the "world building" was mostly just a rehash of Rollerball.

In relation to Discovery though Hunger Games and Twilight have the same issue (for me) in that they seem to throw teen angst and overblown relationship stuff in at totally inappropriate times. Discovery didn't need Tyler or the amount of Book we got in the same way Hunger Games didn't need the love triangle.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205417#Comment_122205417

There's the thing. The Hunger Games didn't nessisarily need a love-triange, but one was written in to drive the actions of 3 of the main characters. I felt that they did it well, since it was used as a trigger to drive the characters various actions thoughout the series, to the point of President Snow weaponising it against Katniss in the last films. This is a very good example of character-driven writing.

It's part of why some of the best Trek episodes handle extraordinary situations, but are driven by character beats.

• The Best of Both Worlds is mostly about Riker trying to find his way in life. His behaviour is very much driven by his inner struggle to move forward in life.
• Yesterday's Enterprise is mostly about Tasha Yar coming to terms with what happened to her in the prime reality and her new romance with the Ent C fella.
• The Visitor is driven by Jake Sisko being stuck in the denial phase of grief for his entire life while trying to rescue his dad.
• Year of Hell is about how Janeway & Anorax respectivly deal with loss.

There are other examples, but this is what I feel is a hallmark of good writing. This is also what is missing from Discovery. Micheal becomes captain material, not due to any amount of personal growth, but because that is what was written to happen with her. None of it is character driven, and smacks of poorly fleshed out wish fulfillment. Little else.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205417#Comment_122205417

In fairness, half of classic Hollywood was blockbusters and epics with melodramatic romance and love triangles forming the character and human drama within. All YA did was diall the ages of its leads back 10+ years.

That's not to defend YA cos there are a tonne of problems with it and I suspect will age like milk as tastes change in years to come, but in principle their structure was just latching onto what came before it time memoriam.

Which is getting a tad sidetracked from Disco, that couldn't claim to be well written or structured in any capacity.

Greyjoy

I'm grateful to Discovery for kick starting another era of Trek series on tv but I doubt it's a show I'll ever go back for a rewatch. That's mainly down to its heavily serialised format which means there's usually no point in watching an episode or two - it's a full season or nothing. That serialised format also gave rise to one of its biggest flaws which was that the seasons were usually badly paced. The escalating threats of each season got very predictable and sapped my interest over time.

I think the writers boxed themselves into a corner by making it a prequel series. I wonder if it had stayed as its original concept of an anthology series that Burnham's story would only have been a single season. I would have much preferred the anthology format so that we could have seen a variety of stories from throughout Trek's history.

GreeBo

Maybe I have my tinted glasses on, but I don't remember in previous trek series that the captain was the center of every episode? Picard would frequently send Riker or Worf or Data off to be the star of an episode.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219451#Comment_122219451

The Original Series probably came close, given "Captain Kirk" was kinda the centre of things more often than not; but the key ingredient here is that Burnham has always been really dreadfully written, and that goes a long way. No chance people would have been so sore about her had she been more charismatic, interesting or had more nuance going on. In fact were the adventures of Captain Burnham, saviour of all, lots of fun & Burnham herself a good character, Discovery would be more fodnly thought of.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215244#Comment_122215244

I watched Season 1 and Season 2. Season 3 onward was unwatchable. The characters were awful, like seriously unlikable.

I will say though that I too am also grateful that it has kick started a new Trek Era. SNW is good, and there is potential there. The lower decks is also REALLY good.

In relation to the thing with the writers boxing themselves off, I think this might be a lot of contractual stuff. I did read that because (at the time) Discovery was CBS and All the other Trek was Paramount that there were issues around the way things could and could not look, stories and characters that they could and could not use. And much of that is very obvious Klingons don't look like Klingons etc and there were very limited "known species" in the first few seasons.

Hopefully we'll get more trek soon. I'd love a Klingon based trek story. Their culture is rich, and has a lot of lore.

Sleepy

Leaving aside TOS as it was so utterly before my time, it's the only Star Trek show to date that I gave up on.

I missed chunks of both Voyager and DS9 as they were aired while I was in my college years and wasn't home much but I watched loads of episodes of each as I caught them on repeats on Sky etc and went back to complete both when on-demand viewing became a thing. The same will never be true of Discovery. I cheered when I heard it was canned.

There were inklings of interesting concepts/ideas in the 3 seasons of the show I watched: the Klingon war could have been great until they didn't bother showing us much of it, Saru was a fantastic character concept who was woefully underused and under-explored, same with Airiam - we finally got an episode on her and they killed her off, Lorca was a great captain until they mirror unversed him for the sake of a "big twist" for the season, Tilly could have had an interesting arc as the over-weight cadet struggling against the fitness requirements of her job and a lack of self-confidence until they decided she had to become a make-a-wish fulfilment character insert for the die hard fans on Twitter who couldn't acknowledge that the show's writers were useless.

Burnham was the main problem though: an unlikeable Mary Sue who was continuously rewarded for being "the chosen one" in a universe where the Federation is supposed to represent the virtues of meritocracy 🙄

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219535#Comment_122219535

That contractual stuff doesn't sound plausible to me. Kurtzmann was part of the JJ team and they used Spock from the very start and then brought in a TOS style Enterprise.

breezy1985

Sadly the had to kill Ariam because the actor was seriously allergic to the prosthetics.

They gave her a new part with Nillson who was the tall blonde lt. commander on the bridge.

Shoog

It didnt ever feel like part of the star Trek universe and it didn't enhance the star Trek universe in any meaningful way. A very bad wasted opportunity. Contrast it to Brave New worlds which feels authentic and enhanced the cannon.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219775#Comment_122219775

Airiam! Man, I remember so much chatter about her in Season 1, folks desperate to know what was about this background character with such fabulous makeup. Going double considering how cybernetics was such a vaguely defined concept in Trek

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220247#Comment_122220247

That episode she got was really good. It even works as a stand alone short story.

In any other Trek show where the focus is on the team Owo and Detmer would have been the Geordie/Data or the Miles/Bashir which would have loved because the 6 characters above are my favourites in each show.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219772#Comment_122219772

I think there are different contractual agreements about the Movies (Which I think CBS owns) and the Series.

I watched a video on this issue before, let me see if I can find it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221502#Comment_122221502

But it couldn't explain stuff like the Klingons because the shows reverted to the TNG look.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221510#Comment_122221510

So in 1994 Paramount was bought by Viacom. In 2000, Viacom bought CBS. In 2005, Viacom and CBS separated. During that corporate divorce, CBS absorbed Paramount Television and Viacom absorbed Paramount Pictures.

The result, at the time was, that CBS has the rights to produce Star Trek content for television distribution and Paramount owns the older Star Trek films and has licensed the rights to produce Star Trek for theatrical distribution, from CBS. So, CBS makes Star Trek: Discovery and Paramount makes the J.J. Abrams films.

Now in 2019, the whole lot merged again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_merger_of_CBS_and_Viacom

And I think it was at that time that the producers of the show went back to using the TNG era stuff.

Contractual stuff is an absolute mess.

Star Trek is easily one of the biggest franchises the either of the companies above could have owned. The fact that it was split up meant it was difficult for either company to fully leverage the potential of the franchise. I'm guessing it was a huge contributing factor in forcing the merger in 2019

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219498#Comment_122219498

Even for TOS, if was usually Kirk + McCoy or Kirk + Spock on some adventure, Burnham is always just Burnham plus maybe Book to stand looking at her lovingly.

TNG was very good at having entire episodes just dedicated to other cast members, same for Voyager really.

I used to love nothing better than a good Barkley episode :)
"No problem, here's how you build it"

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221551#Comment_122221551

No they went back to using classic Trek looks because the fans went nuts. The end of season 1 in 2018 had the very TOS looking Enterprise.

I don't buy it that the look of Discovery had anything got to do with contracts.

shimadzu

If there was ever a federation ship that needed a prominent councilor it was discovery. There was not one likeable character on that ship, every single one lacked confidence but at the last moment were able to pull some miracle out of the bag. The script could have been written by an 80's RPG maker, every week it was we need you to go here to retrieve an item and bring it back but you need to be quick. The rest of the episode bulked out with the characters trying to reassure each other that things were going to be grand. If they ended the series with the ship and crew crashing into the sun I think it would have made the majority of viewers happy.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221604#Comment_122221604

Yeah, it might as well have been called Star Trek: Burnham. In TOS, it was the bridge crew in general, and usually Kirk + McCoy or Kirk + Spock, sometimes Kirk + Scotty. The movies spread the action out among the bridge crew in a more equal way.

TNG had no problem having character-centric episodes. There was even an episode with Deanna Troi as acting captain. Same with DS9. Voyager had a lot of Janeway centric episodes, but also lots of The Doctor based. BTW VOY is my least favourite of all series (except for DISC)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221604#Comment_122221604

Even outside the regular bridge crew TNG did a better job of fleshing out the likes of Barclay and OBrien than Discovery did with their main bridge crew.

Tenzor07

Like others have said, the show should have been called "Sorta Star Trek: Burnham" an up to date Kirk for the 2020's. Who went out to save the Galaxy, ended up in the 32nd century and the last season was on a Trek to find the Ultimate Tech which turned out to be a waste of time anyways, very disappointing..

The bridge crew… couldn't tell you who they were or their names really, were they really needed anyways? Could have gotten "Zora" to pilot the ship and give information.."Book" been led around the Galaxy by Burnham, again not really a memorable character.. The only character I thought was really good was "Moll"..great action scenes, clever character and motivated..

Special effects..stunning if a bit too dark, the personal transporters and computer, more like what you think future tech would be like.

CastorTroy

Having just heard his voice on an episode of Batman animated series, I think the biggest problem with Discovery was the severe lack of Jeffrey Combs.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222430#Comment_122222430

No problem with the captain being super prominent, but not every mission, every challenge, every stupidly dangerous situation, solving every problem, every bloody time.

By then end I would have gladly taken a bloody Lwaxana Troi episode!

GreeBo

The whole Zora thing was ridiculous.

"oh look, our ship has become sentient!"

"cool, ahwell, lets just forget about that shall we…"

That whole thing couldnt be more anti Star Trek if it tried. I mean its a new, unique lifeform…are we not interested in that anymore?