Should I progress with a bullying case

mtoutlemonde

Hi, just some information from people in the know.

I have been working in a toxic work environment and am finally leaving but really as a result of bullying behaviour.

This behaviour included approaching me when I was on my own despite numerous requests to stop doing this. When doing this, I was prevented from leaving and intimidated by language and tone used. Despite numerous requests to up skill, all were denied. Intimidated in front of colleagues, using position as power and I could go on.This obviously was not a single incident but continuous for about 1.5 years. It has had a huge effect on my life both physical and mental. I have also engaged in Counselling. My job was hell day to day.

Is this enough to constitute bullying? I have email evidence asking for unannounced meetings to stop and with relation to career progression. It would be easy to get a witness statement as another colleague experienced the same. I am part of a trade union but to my surprise I was told that if the person bullying were to be found guilty, it would be detrimental to their career but I didn't matter. Therfore am I better going to a solicitor privately? Any advice welcome.

Mrs OBumble

What do you want to achieve, a payout? An apology? To have the perpetrator fired?

Is getting that worth the aggravation and risk of raking a case? Or would it be better for you to just walk away?

No one can really answer this for you - but do not underestimate the emotional, time and financial costs of taking a case.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058354308/should-i-progress-with-a-bullying-case

I have found trade unions can be like that - they see the perpetrator as another member and will protect them too.

If you are leaving anyway don't bother with the complaint imo - it will just destroy you

Companies will do anything to avoid finding bullying as it leaves them - the company - open to a claim. Much easier to say nothing happened and it was a "personality clash" leaving you frustrated and worn out. I wanted an apology arising from my complaint as some kind of closure and they wouldn't even ask the bully if they would be willing to apologise.

if it is a toxic work environment this more than likely extend to the complaint process too, as that's why environments like this are allowed to continue in the first place

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214403#Comment_122214403

I went through the four stages of grievance procedure and that was tiring with laughable results which the 'bully' did not abide to. However the problem with this was it was investigated internally even though stage four had an independent adjudicator but at the end of the day - they were equal to the complainant so I was probably over stepping the mark. Going legal might even up the game play. I don't know what I will do but there is something deep down that needs this bullying to stop. I know I have left but that is an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. I left good friends who are still experiencing this behaviour.

mtoutlemonde

I've answered some of your comments below. Thanks. This is more than a personality clash - it was an unjust use of power. I had good evidence for my grievance but the evidence I have now shows a continuous bullying atmosphere with constant intimidation.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215434#Comment_122215434

What, specifically, do you want to change?

An attitude transplant for the perpetrator might not be achievable.

You say you have evidence, but I fear your friends may disappoint you when it comes to actually giving written statements.

Strumms

is it enough to constitute bullying ? Yes.

Attempting to do anything about it now that you are no longer an employee there …. I imagine this will be difficult.

What are your motivations…revenge ? to help current employees ? to change the work culture there…?

Either way it will be a lot of time, effort and probably expense that you’ll be investing and any personal benefit will be negligible…

Best to put it behind you, learn from the experience above all, and if things should become similarly difficult in any future employment environment you’ll be better equipped to deal with it.

AnRothar

went through the four stages of grievance procedure and that was tiring with laughable results which the 'bully' did not abide to. However the problem with this was it was investigated internally even though stage four had an independent adjudicator 

based on what you say above it has been investigated thoroughly, including an independent adjudication.

Bear in mind that while you may have felt aggrieved by the alleged actions of the alleged perpetrator the findings may have viewed the actions as not as severe as you perceived

So any subsequent action by the alleged perpetrator would be viewed in light of the investigation.

Did you make subsequent complaints when the alleged perpetrator failed failed abide by the recommendation?

I have found trade unions can be like that - they see the perpetrator as another member and will protect them too.

Not strictly true, most "incidents" involve at least 2 partie. With 2 versions of what happened. Everyone is entitled to a fair hearing.

Here on boards we often get one side of the story. So key details can be missing.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215589#Comment_122215589

By nature of my job, I'm currently employed until my contract expires in a few months.

My ccolleague brought similiar case and they were sent to occupational health for assessment.

Don't know what I want… bullying is wrong and needs addressing otherwise perpetrator continues with no consequences. T

mtoutlemonde

Allegations previous were not as serious. This person saw the procedure as powerless and upped the ante. Didn't abide by agreement but union advice was to wait it out.

Dav010

Op, is this the Principal who investigated the bullying allegations made by a student against a teacher, and has that process been completed?

Calahonda52

OP,

Been there so if you are leaving, then walk away.

The system its set up to protect the perps/company and is stacked against you

These are my 6 commandments, post the above and a cancer diagnosis

Starting today:

1: Eat well

2: Exercise well

3 Sleep well: unaided, to do so may require more of  2

4: Every day, be a positive contribution, however small, to family  or friends or community or  whatever: i.e. make a positive difference: might even be a simple as helping someone with their shopping…

5: Only mix with and converse/communicate with people who make a positive contribution to your life. So no group whinges down the pub about how awful….blah blah blah.

6: Manage and control your news and social media intake in the context of 5.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058354308/should-i-progress-with-a-bullying-case

From recollection...I think you are in teaching.

Please do progress your case, especially if you are in a position that you can move on to another job without repercussions.

Don't let bullies win, especially not in education.

A principal did something truly disgusting on me that caused me and my family months and months of stress and upset. By the time I got back to school after sick leave, she had retired and subsequently died quite quickly after. I never got a chance to take a very serious grievance against her and it upsets me to this day that she got away with it.

I had other cases of bullying from people in the school when I was subbing and I have never had any peace since. They act like they are so sweet and wholesome and it infuriates me that people can have such split personalities.

Ultimately, progress your case for your own peace of mind for the future.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221308#Comment_122221308

Hi, I may have mentioned that previously but that was another serious form of intimidation/bullying as the principal was asked to put the com0laint in writing. If it were serious enough (which they weren't), they would have put in writing.

mtoutlemonde

That's how I feel - I wouldn't condone it the classroom/yard from students, so why allow it to happen to me.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224028#Comment_122224028

i guess you are seeking constructive dismissal. you will probably be successfull. half serious half joke, contact the burkes in mayo for advice.

Babyreignbow

Bullying and harrassment in the workplace has detrimental affects on people's health and as such is a health and safety issue, in some cases has lead people to taking their own lives. I wouldn't be joking about it.

Hope you are getting help.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249369#Comment_122249369

Thank you for that. I sought help in February when things got really nasty. It's definitely needed. Bullying is very serious and this bulky can't get away it - for the sake of others. He's relatively young young sk his behaviour needs calling out.

mtoutlemonde

I might leave the Burke's out of it :)

Ted222

Your contract of employment should properly contain a bullying and harassment policy along with a grievance and disciplinary policy which outline the remedies open to you.

The issues you describe seem serious enough to warrant a complaint to the WRC but it would undermine your complaint if you hadn’t exhausted all internal grievance mechanisms. However, if the internal mechanisms haven’t been given expression anywhere, this may not be a consideration.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276970#Comment_122276970

I went through internal grievance procedure and situation got worse. I don't know if I would have to do the same this time. When you say expression - does that mean the employer ignores the complaints/fails to act.

mtoutlemonde

Hi everyone, thank you all for your responses. I have received my legal advice and I have a lot to reflect on. I don't know if compensation is something I want but acknowledgement of the way I have been treated is. I have always told others to stand up to bullies and feel hypocritical to leave workplace without some acknowledgement. This bullying has had a serious impact on my professional and personal life and it has taken a lot of my spare time since it started.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281024#Comment_122281024

No, I just mean that sometimes employers claim to have a grievance procedure but when you go looking for it, it isn’t written down anywhere.

If you have gone through the grievance process (including any appeal option that may be provided for) and the issue hasn’t been resolved, you will be in a better position at the WRC should you proceed to a complaint there.

The route you should take ultimately depends on what outcome you want to achieve.

For example, Do you want and are you willing to stay in your job in the current circumstances? If not, you could take a claim of constructive dismissal but that would be very hard to prove.

If you went on sick leave for work-related stress, there would be an onus on the employer to address the related causes. If they didn’t , you could make a complaint to the WRC on discrimination grounds. That might focus the mind.

Regardless, if you are progressing to the WRC, be wary of legal advice that says you must involve a barrister. This will cost a small fortune and is not really necessary. The WRC doesn’t operate like regular courts. You can be represented by anyone.

EDIT. Apologies, I just noticed that you’ve already left (or are leaving). There’s nothing more you should do. You put in a grievance and made a decent fist of trying to correct the bad behaviour. It hasn’t worked. Move on. There’s nothing more you can do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215434#Comment_122215434

"However the problem with this was it was investigated internally even though stage four had an independent adjudicator but at the end of the day - they were equal to the complainant so I was probably over stepping the mark. "

What does that mean? "an independent adjudicator" and "they were equal to the complainant so I was probably over stepping the mark"

How independent was the adjudicator, did the company pay for an outsider? If so, is that 100% unbiased, I doubt it.. the company paying someone else that could end up with them having a lawsuit against them…

"they were equal to the complainant so I was probably over stepping the mark." - this sentence here, to me, implies the independent adjudicator was an employee!?

Any companies grievance policy is a waste of time, its only lip service.. unfortunately, as other posters have said and it makes my blood boil to say this, but walk away..

Really bad society we have if bullies can get away with it so easily, but unfortunately this is the case..

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281506#Comment_122281506

If the employer didn’t pay the adjudicator, who would? Unless this is a private school, I suspect the employer is the State.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281552#Comment_122281552

Exactly, so how is it 100% unbiased, as I said grievance policy is worthless..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276970#Comment_122276970

Actually this is the only purpose a grievance policy serves.. if you intend to bring the matter to the WRC, you would have to show you followed the companies grievance policy.. no matter how worthless it is

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281584#Comment_122281584

So you think the employee should share the burden of paying the adjudicator?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281624#Comment_122281624

Nope, just trying to illustrate how worthless a grievance policy is.. Im sure their is a way of ensuring the adjudicator is 100% impartial, but definitely not gonna be if picked and paid for by the employer!! Plus in most cases the "independent adjudicator" will be someone from HR lol

I get the impression you think grievance policies are fair and impartial? Can you explain?

Waiting for OP to clarify if the adjudicator was an employee or external anyway, as I have my doubts:

""they were equal to the complainant so I was probably over stepping the mark." - this sentence here, to me, implies the independent adjudicator was an employee!?"

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281687#Comment_122281687

Completely. The employer is paying for the report - could be 50k for a decent investigation. The investigator is not going to give them back a report that says there was bullying if at all avoidable (they will delete evidence by saying it is "not relevant" and all sorts or say it is "inconclusive"), as it would leave the company wide open to litigation and a very unhappy customer. The whole aim of "independent" investigations (and why employers are usually happy enough to pay for them where there is likely bullying) is the employer is paying for a report that will cover them that they did nothing wrong, that they didn't allow bullying happen on their watch and they did nothing wrong. That's the point of the investigation

it's not really about what happened or the bully or the victim at all - you sadly don't realise this until you have been through it and realise the reality

Until there is an actual independent ombudsman type set up where the employer is not paying this will always happen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282037#Comment_122282037

"it's not really about what happened or the bully or the victim at all - you sadly don't realise this until you have been through it and realise the reality"

Been there, and realised the harsh reality !

As I mentioned b4 the only purpose a grievance policy serves is if you see a possibility of taking this further in the future - you have go through the process..