Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333234#Comment_122333234

It goes back to 1977 when Fianna Fail got the biggest majority in the history of the State. And was the last one party government we had. Based on their promise to abolish Domestic Rates and Road/Motor Tax. Rates were a property tax to fund waste collection and water services by Local Authorities. It was a disaster for local government funding, and has had a long history of sorting out since. Privitisation of waste collection was a logical outcome. And the new version of Property Tax we got more recently. Only water remains to be added to the list.

SF promise to abolish Property Tax (they call it the Family Home Tax). We will see how that goes if they get in. They never did anything to abolish it in the North.

https://irishelectionliterature.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333223#Comment_122333223

General Election before March… I'd say make it a point on the doorsteps and you never know

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333585#Comment_122333585

SF promise to abolish Property Tax (they call it the Family Home Tax). We will see how that goes if they get in. They never did anything to abolish it in the North.

Slightly off topic but SF are in a power sharing agreement with the DUP up north so they don't have control over every aspect of life there. They successfully kept water charges out of the north as part of the power sharing and property taxes in the north pay for things like education, health and roads. They have things like free education, free healthcare and proper roads up there as a result

It's illogical to compare SF performance in the north to what they could achieve if they come into power in Leinster House

To go back on topic, I think after their recent election result the DRS might be open to change by them

elperello

SF are on it already.

https://vote.sinnfein.ie/government-inaction-at-the-heart-of-the-dysfunction-in-irelands-privatised-waste-collection-system-darren-orourke-td/

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333685#Comment_122333685

Being in a coalition does not stop a party from pursuing their own policies. The biggest scandal in the North is that no party challenged the power of the mansion owners. Until recently. Multi million Pound mansions pay the same as someone with a £400K house.

SF will be in coalition here as well, if they abandon the nonsense that getting the most votes is the same as a majority. So I expect that they will quietly sideline the promise to abolish the Family Home Tax.

"Capping 

The maximum capital valuation for a domestic property is £400, 000. For any house valued over £400, 000, LPS disregards the additional value when calculating rates. "

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/most-valuable-ni-homes-face-a-huge-bill-if-the-domestic-rates-cap-abolished/a1366846488.html

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333585#Comment_122333585

I'm well aware of what FF did with regards to rates. But our current disastrous issues with waste collection stems from 2012 and we should never have hocked off that public service (nor any public service) into private hands.

It never works out for the consumer.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334748#Comment_122334748

Then you will also know that Local Authorities, not the private sector tried to charge for their bins first. But protestors stopped this happening. Privitisation was the only thing left.

Sinn Fein would actually do well to campaign against all sorts of direct taxes like the Property Tax. This is what is popular with property owners, who tend to vote in bigger numbers than other sections of the community. The FF abolition was known as the Retired Teachers vote. People with big houses and big Rates bills, but with smaller incomes in their retirement. You will also remember that a few years after that we had the Tax marches, PAYE workers rebelling against 60% income tax being used to replace the Domestic Rates income stream.

lisasimpson

Wonder what's the most am individual has made to date? We are at around 20 euro with about 1/3 coming from picking up items out walking. I'd take those living near stadiums etc could make a nice bit after events

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335503#Comment_122335503

Selling off public services to private interests never works out for Joe public, end of. We ALWAYS end up paying more for less.

But I remember that you were all on for the privatisation of our water services a number of years ago, so that fact is probably wasted on you.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333019#Comment_122333019

Why wait till 2030? Obviously there will still be items dumped that don't go into the waste stream but if there was a mechanism for the bottles or cans recovered by the bin companies to be transferred to Re-turn in return for deposits I imagine we'd already be close to or exceeding 90%.

I'm not suggesting we should pay the bin companies disappointment money. The reality is some consumers have chose to forego their deposits. It makes no difference to them whether the bin company claims it back or whether Re-turn keep it.

And Ireland gets to meet its targets. Win win.

fritzelly

Saw a fella in the city centre today with a grabber and bag of cans he had found on the streets - guess in one way this is a good thing that he is kinda cleaning up the city but sucks that people just throw stuff on the ground because DCC have removed as many bins as they can get away with (since privatisation)

I am of the opinion that every household should pay a charge that covers bins, street cleaning etc - go to almost any European city and you would never see the amount of dumping that happens in this country (then again there is a different mentality there as well)

Daith

Evert household should pay a charge. Like some sort of property charge. Or property tax. Hmm.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337347#Comment_122337347

I think the only reason people are against the Property Tax because it is not indirect, the DRS can at least be spun as "protecting the environment"/ "the common good"/ "saving the planet" or whatever.

But my suspicions were proved correct that "protecting the environment" is mainly a money making scheme by vested interests. When the bin companies started warning about potential increased charges.

It reminds me of the TV series the Sopranos, they were involved in "waste disposal" as well! There is money to be made in it. All the vested interests want a piece of it.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337352#Comment_122337352

Theres plenty of initiatives and incentives you could give to encourage the population to help the environment. But no ,It seems to be a charge or a tax in this country. Nothing else seems to come to the minds of our political class.

Shan Doras

I wonder what percentage of those kids fruit juice bottles sold in McDonald's end up getting returned for a deposit refund by the customer? Anytime I've been in McDonald's I've seen 100% end up in the bin. I can't figure out why restaurants weren't exempt but then airport departure areas aren't either.....

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337726#Comment_122337726

There were reports earlier on the thread of people tried to return those smaller e.g. 250ml bottles and machines rejecting them.

McDonalds should have been obliged to take these back.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337352#Comment_122337352

Like a lot of good fiction The Sopranos was based on factual events.

https://medium.com/limited-liabilities-by-colbeck/the-cosa-nostra-candy-store-organized-crime-and-the-waste-collection-industry-8f9e2ff62465

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337089#Comment_122337089

I'm not saying we should wait until 2030.

The sooner we reach the target the better.

For your suggestion to work the mechanism would have to be developed to dovetail bin collection and DRS.

As I have said before I don't think people will continue to forgo deposits in the longer term.

That's just a hunch and I may be wrong but in the domestic situation I can't see them throwing money away forever.

jj880

Still trying to conflate not using a frustrating half baked DRS scheme designed to make people "forgo" deposits with "throwing money away" is pretty pathetic at this stage.

lisasimpson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337738#Comment_122337738

Theres a nack to depositing them. Took me a while to get it. You kind of have to more fling the little bottles in more than place them on the belt

Shan Doras

Another thing I've experienced is shops parking trolleys of stock directly in front of the machine, it would make one go Victor Meldrew

dxhound2005

That Indo article was recycled in local papers this week, and I was able to read it. Simon Bourke's friends in the IWMA came up with a genius idea for their members to get their hands on the aliminium:

"Prior to the advent of the DRS, the Irish Waste Management Association, proposed a system whereby customers using a mobile phone app linked to their bank account, could scan cans and bottles at home, before putting them in their recycling bin."

Bourke than says: "That clearly made too much sense. It would have negated the need for expensive reverse vending machines to be installed in supermarkets around the country."

The odd thing is that the IWMA website does not have any information about this plan or about the supposed €15m losses being suffered by their members. Instead they chose a writer of populist polemics to muddy the waters with a nonsense article in the Indo group of papers. I wonder what is going on?

Bourke mentioned that he never used the machines and continues to support his local waste companies by putting his cans and bottles in his Green Bin. And complains that he will now be penalised with higher charges, because other people have abandoned their loyalty to their companies. He certainly knows how to make a case for his client.

SteM

'continues to support his local waste companies by putting his cans and bottles in his Green Bin.', ffs. I've read it all now.

I support my local waste company by paying them every month, is that not the same thing?

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337089#Comment_122337089

This is exactly right. I go further and say if re-turn are not enabling the exchange of in-scope items for deposits, they are not doing their job. It's simply not their money to withhold.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338923#Comment_122338923

The odd thing is that the IWMA website does not have any information about this plan or about the supposed €15m losses being suffered by their members.

They were "consulted" and proposed a DDRS, the proposal was extensive and fully costed.

Has been linked to numerous time here already.

Atlantic Dawn

My best overall 'experience' has been in my local Tesco, 4 machines, not yet seen more than 1 out of service at any one time. Worst experience is with Aldi, 2 machines outside the shop, only once seen both machines in working order, they usually put the shutters on them an hour before the shop closes just to make them that bit more useful 🤔.

bog master

I ask again, has anyone completed a manual return?

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340231#Comment_122340231

No, it seems it's a rule not getting enforced, and no one is calling them out on it

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337089#Comment_122337089

Absolutely. If the bottle is recycled then the deposit should go to the bin company and be used to keep bin charges down. This is a complete no-brainer.

tohaltuwi

again o day it here in case anyone finds bottles being rejected. Any dinged looking or rejected bottles should be re-shaped by blowing into them, I have found this works almost every time. Shouldn’t have to be doing that, of course, with this silly scheme.