Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Archeron

I see the return site says in scope items include aluminium cans or plastic bottles between 150 ml and 3 litres.

In the local spar today and found a new drink I'd not seen before, strawberry flavoured water by a company called okf.

Sold in a plastic can :)

No deposit, no logo, no bullsh*t scamming. Nice to have a new option for a soft drink when out and about, i hope many other companies follow suit.

Its very nice too, not too strawberry-y. Next time I'll try the watermelon one.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511351#Comment_122511351

Is this the product ?

https://tianan.com.my/product/okf-sparkling-strawberry/

Archeron

That's the one

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511441#Comment_122511441

Looks like a sawn off plastic bottle to me 😊

patnor1011

I do find very little issues with dunnes machines they eat 99% of what I put in even mangled cans. Sometimes I need to insert bottle 5 or 6 times but I always win. However, I will never use lidl machines as they simply refuse to work. I gave up after they took like 2-3 out of 10 and I tried several times. There must be some hex on them.

Still it is extremelly annoying trying to insert bottles and cans multiple times or stepping from one machine to another.

dxhound2005

Unscientific observation, based on being in supermarkets for a short time on any shopping trip. The self service checkouts seems to need a lot more assistance to customers than the RVM's. But of course they have more usage, and sometimes long queues.

In the overall scheme of things, nothing that happened to me in a supermarket was ever extremely annoying.

LambshankRedemption

In the overall scheme of things, nothing that happened to me in a supermarket was ever extremely annoying.

I think that might a little bit of a fib.

Potential-Monke

While the ReScam staff on here continue to tell you that you've bad luck because the machines have always worked for them and that its no inconvenience to them, I feel now is a good time to remind people that if the machines are not working then demand your manual return. Stop looking for a working machine in another shop. ReScam have confirmed this themselves.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513309#Comment_122513309

Where have they confirmed this do you mind me asking? I'd like to know so I can tell my local aldi who refused me a manual return last week when both machines were down.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507941#Comment_122507941

At the rugby world cup there was a limit on how many one person could bring back, to stop people making a nice little sum

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513379#Comment_122513379

I emailed ReScam and they confirmed it. So if you're refused, ask for a manager. Get a name if they're still refusing and tell them you're emailing ReScam and including the email of [company name] head office in it. The shops are a return point, not an RVM only return point.

Yes, if the RVM isn’t working, the store should take the bottles and cans from you. Have you experienced issues with this?

 

A Dude (removed for fairness to the employee)

RPO & Community DRS Manager

And rather than them confirming it, they're just confirming that there was never the option to refuse. Understandably the shops don't want to waste time and resources on it, but this is what they signed up for.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513379#Comment_122513379

In fairness,

@bog master has led the field on the search for manual return.

Despite his many requests on here nobody has reported achieving it.

I had a go myself at an airport the other day.

WH Smith airside the assistant told me he would have to charge the deposit but could not offer any return.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513423#Comment_122513423

That's weird because I asked to a friend who manages a large Tesco and he said the opposite. He said once they have RVMs they're in compliance whether they're working or not. I'll have to ask him again, he must have been mistaken.

Potential-Monke

Screenshot_20240817_122816_Gmail.jpg

Don't bother asking the Tesco staff, email ReScam. Tesco are not in charge. They're either a return point, or they're not. Working machines is not a requirement.

I'd show the email in its entirety (which would just include my name, email and the ReScam reps name), but I don't wanna identify myself.

Maybe this'll do?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513488#Comment_122513488

You could send the email to me and I'll show it. Thereby preserving your identity.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513437#Comment_122513437

The Re-turn website is ambiguous on this but Citizens Information says RVM or manual

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/whats-new/deposit-return-scheme-starts-1feb2024/#:~:text=You%20can%20return%20containers%20to,check%20re%2Dturn.ie.

https://re-turn.ie/

Not made with hands

What about cans that are perfectly fine but machine won't take them?

Or cans that are slightly damaged.

Should the shop not have to take these even if machine is working?

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513550#Comment_122513550

If they're within scope yes. So long as they have the rescam logo printed on it, they have to accept them, even if the machine doesn't. Every time I've to use one, it rejects one or two but takes them on the second or third attempt. Which shouldn't happen but if a container is within scope but the state of the art machine doesn't realise it, I would be requesting a manual return.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513550#Comment_122513550

In my experience slightly damaged cans will go through if the barcode part is ok.

I have sometimes had to insert even a perfect can a few times.

So far I never had to give up completely if the can had the correct barcode.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513519#Comment_122513519

That's what I was told, one or the other but manual does not have to be offered if an RVM is out of order.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513733#Comment_122513733

So all anyone needs to do is get a screenshot of @Potential-Monke 's screenshot and give it a go in a store.

Just one more thing, the email does say "if the RVM isn't working" so the machine being full possibly doesn't count.

bog master

And, what do the super duper systems working perfectly in these other countries which we based our state of the art system manage with manual returns when a machine is out of order?

And once, once again, those who have completed a manual return, please come forward and get your due recognition!!

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513993#Comment_122513993

Son went into a centra yesterday. About a half a mile walk with a backpack of containers. It was working well for him when the RVM was working. He would usually put the deposits toward a multipack of sports drinks. Third time their machine has been unavailable / out of order. Told to come back today. Hes had enough now though. Not bothered about it anymore. Great introduction to recycling. He's 14. And no I wont be telling him to argue with a manager that they should be taking them manually and I wont drive to the shop myself to argue either. This doesn't qualify as "throwing money away" either in my opinion. There comes a point when you are just not willing to work / faff endlessly for free to get a few euro of your own money back. Its inevitable. This scheme is pretty pathetic. Works out well for Re-Turn though.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513963#Comment_122513963

If its full and not accepting more, then it's not considered working until emptied. Happened me once, machine was OOO, I asked for my manual return, they sent someone to empty the machine and it was suddenly working again.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514026#Comment_122514026

Sounds like a good tactic to get them to empty the RVM in short order.

When they do the manual return do they just give you the money ?

I presume there is no voucher.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513993#Comment_122513993

I thought you'd be impressed by this development.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514023#Comment_122514023

If there is a charity anywhere close, like the ones in the 3 short videos here, he could regain that feelgood recycling feeling. At the same time as helping others. And let them battle with the machines. The CUH people have raised over €4,000 already.

https://re-turn.ie/community/

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514073#Comment_122514073

No idea if you get a voucher for manual, any time I tried the machines got fixed. Wouldn't make sense to get one, but this whole scam doesn't make sense so you probably do get one.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514207#Comment_122514207

Im all for charity but theres no way Im engaging with this to facilitate Foley spoofing on the radio with charity stats while he ignores all the gombeenery in this scheme. Not to worry I'll wait for the results of the planned Re-Turn assessment next July. If there are any meaningful changes to improve Re-Turn I'll be all in for a better tomorrow.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514390#Comment_122514390

No I can't see how one could be generated.

Seems most likely the machines were just full anyway.

Sorry @bog master I think I led you astray earlier.

We are still looking for anyone who has actually done a manual return.

patnor1011

I always cash vouchers. I get dirty looks sometimes and at start they tried to convince me I have to use them against purchase or to add them to loyalty card but I just smiled and said thank you I just take the cash and they complied.

I will always cash them even if I do buy something as I had experience when I handed out about 4e worth of voucher it got scanned then checkout malfunctioned and cashier said vouchers sometimes do that and that probably it has been used already which it was not. I spent there 15 minutes while they tried to get that till to work and I said never more. Now they go straight to customer service checkout for cash.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513993#Comment_122513993

I used another RVM system in another country once a week for 4 years. In that time, I only came across an out of order machine once. I informed a member of staff who counted my bottles and gave me a voucher for the same value.

My one and only time using an RVM in Ireland 5 out of my 6 cans, all from the same multi pack were rejected, I got a 15 cent voucher and then the barcode scanner in the shop wouldn't read the voucher. I must be really really unlucky, but only in Ireland.

jj880

Comments under recent Tesco Facebook ads for 18 can coca-cola multi packs. All unrelated to Re-Turn of course. Someone should get on that thread quick and tell them soda water is down from 72c to 69c! 🤣

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517527#Comment_122517527

I said at the very start of this scam the big retailers would use the changing of the pricing labels as an excuse to up the price further and some posters were laughing at me.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517565#Comment_122517565

Laughing at the time and now after it has happened performing stat gymnastics trying to cod everyone that it didn't happen. Its a strange state of affairs.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517575#Comment_122517575

I can recall the same narrative shift about machines being OOO or rejecting valid items.

Concerns raised were belittled... why would it happen it doesnt happen elsewhere.

Then when posters started reporting it actually happening they got the 3rd degree.

dxhound2005

Own brand Soda Water is now down to 59 cents for a one litre bottle in Lidl as well as Aldi. Was 75 before DRS, and went down to 69 and recently 59. Still 69 in Tesco and Dunnes. But after Russia invaded Ukraine, they all went up in lock step from 25 cents, 35, 45 and so on to 75, so I expect they will all follow suit on the way down.

They did the same with milk and own brand butter, on the way up and down. But we won't see the pre Ukraine prices for anything ever again. All soda water prices above plus 25 cent of course since DRS. But that is not part of the price rise, it is a refundable deposit. There are more expensive brands available. But with soda water, milk and butter it is the height of foolishness to pay extra for the same product in different packaging.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517848#Comment_122517848

Were we invaded by Return?

Why are you continuing to brng up irrelevent nonsense about Ukraine and soda water while ignoring the actual effective price rises on products such as Coca Cola cans thst occurred at same time as Return?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517848#Comment_122517848

Milk and butter shopping advice now! 😅

Theres plenty of foolishness baked into Re-Turn but its got nothing to do with Ukraine, milk, butter or soda water.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517880#Comment_122517880

I never saw any evidence produced on the thread that DRS caused price increases on any drinks. Prices went up and down over the years before February without any influence from DRS. All I saw was a claim from someone that the retailers had taken the "opportunity" to do price increases after DRS. With zero evidence offered.

I am not linking the price variations in soda water to anything to do with DRS. Simply counterbalancing the misinformation here claiming everything went up. And I am linking price increases that happened to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Retailers explained their reasons for that.

There are many many drinks products on sale, but all I saw referenced were Coke and Lucozade. Find out the reasons for the price increases and let us know what they are. If they are to do with DRS then show the evidence. Also are there other products that stayed the same price?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517907#Comment_122517907

Do you expect Coca Cola to come out and say oh we took advantage of Return to jack up prices?

It is a totally different situation to Ukraine.

Can you suggest where this information can be found by regular boards users? Well? You suggest it is feasible. So no, you find us the evidence explaining why the price of those products went up if you are going to dismiss the very reasonable explanation that it was done to coincide with Return.

Show your evidence.

Or was it a bad faith argument on your part to demand evidence you know cannot be obtained?

As for misinformation, you posted misinformation on this thread recently about Brexit and Return scope products.

I would also add another effective price increase caused by Return is the disappearance of for example cheap imports such as non alc lager in Dunnes, kombucha products in Holland and Barrett.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517907#Comment_122517907

If anyone said prices went up they meant prices in general not "every single product went up in price" but you know that. More pedantry and deflection. Your singular example of prices going down is soda water coming down from its post Ukraine war high price which as already discussed is unrelated to Re-Turn due to the price timeline which you brought up. You were just crowbarring it in randomly to suit your argument. However there are several good examples of prices that went up when this DRS was introduced. Thats all posters are stating. After that you draw your own conclusions.

howiya

Since the introduction of DRS, cans of soft drinks are no longer available in trays of 24. In the UK where there is no DRS, cans can be bought in trays of 24. These are also cheaper than they are down here.

Its very simple, the producer has to pay for DRS, which ultimately means the consumer is paying for DRS despite what it may say on the Re-turn website and we get higher prices.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518396#Comment_122518396

A few years from now we will look back and notice what we lost as an unintended consequence of DRS. For one, the small producers who could not relabel their stock, so who decided to just shut shop. The European producers for whom Ireland is such a small market they didnt bother getting their barcodes registered, etc.

dxhound2005

Consumer Price Index. Two items from the non-alcoholic drinks category, percentage price increases. Mineral or Spring Water and Soft Drinks. Which I will abbreviate as MW and SD.

Year up to Dec 2021 MW + 3.8%. SD + 5.3%.

June 2022 MW 7.0. SD 3.7.

Dec 2022 MW 14.8. SD 11.1.

June 2023 MW 12.6. SD 15.1.

Dec 2023 MW 4.2. SD 10.1.

March 2024 MW 4.7. SD 5.7.

June 2024 MW 4.6. SD 3.0.

July 2024 MW 5.1. SD 1.6.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpi/consumerpriceindexjuly2024/

The inflationary effect of the Russian invasion of Ukraine at the end of Feb 2022 can clearly be seen. There is no indication that DRS has made any difference since February 2024. People can point to particular configurations of Coke and Lucozade going up, suffering shrinkflation, or not being available any more. I can point to particular Soda Waters having gone down. Neither is proof of anything to do with DRS. Prices go up and down, and product lines change. Sometimes people use the highest price to make an argument. Usually there is another configuration of that product e.g. Coke cheaper.

The CPI does not count the returnable deposit as a price increase.

elperello

depends on what you buy in your shopping whether you have seen increases or not.

Go to another shop or change brand like with any price increase you find unacceptable.

I'm not sure how much of any recent increases are the result of DRS which is our main concern here.

Nobody is saying that price rises are a good thing.

The .022 cent would seem to offer a significant income stream. Seeing as the retailers were involved in setting it they hardly walked themselves into a financial black hole.

It's a bit more like when MUP came in. Despite getting the bonus of a floor price and no market competition to worry about most retailers took an extra margin.

I posted the above more than a week ago when this price increase came up.

I reiterate I am not supporting price rises to consumers.

Have we got any more information about the price increase ?

Was it wholesalers, manufacturers, retailers or all three who put their prices up ?

Usually if one in the chain increases the price the next one passes it on adding a bit to preserve their margin.

I'm still not sure that there is any obvious solution to this problem except changing brand or finding a cheaper shop.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506196#Comment_122506196

I need to lie down

patnor1011

Oh please stop trying to blame putin for price increases. If there were any they were not because of invasion but as a consequence of our reaction to it. Mostly as a response of energy prices increase due to sanctions imposed on russia but more visible and much higher price increase happened with introduction of screw-up scheme. Sometimes plainly visible on prices of a product but mostly covert one with reduction of multipack size and count.

patnor1011

And yeah, Screw-up wins. I am sick of this idiotic scheme which require you to keep containers in pristine condition and even then you need to reinsert some of them again and again, issues with vouchers, looking up for machines…

I am going to make a trip once a month to the North and buy all the water I will need simply because it is significantly cheaper than here. I only wish I was closer to the border I could go more often but I when I go I will make it count.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519817#Comment_122519817

That sort of nonsene would be fed to the Russian people and they would lap it up. People in Ireland have not been brainwashed. Visible covert prices. There's a new one.