Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517575#Comment_122517575

I can recall the same narrative shift about machines being OOO or rejecting valid items.

Concerns raised were belittled... why would it happen it doesnt happen elsewhere.

Then when posters started reporting it actually happening they got the 3rd degree.

dxhound2005

Own brand Soda Water is now down to 59 cents for a one litre bottle in Lidl as well as Aldi. Was 75 before DRS, and went down to 69 and recently 59. Still 69 in Tesco and Dunnes. But after Russia invaded Ukraine, they all went up in lock step from 25 cents, 35, 45 and so on to 75, so I expect they will all follow suit on the way down.

They did the same with milk and own brand butter, on the way up and down. But we won't see the pre Ukraine prices for anything ever again. All soda water prices above plus 25 cent of course since DRS. But that is not part of the price rise, it is a refundable deposit. There are more expensive brands available. But with soda water, milk and butter it is the height of foolishness to pay extra for the same product in different packaging.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517848#Comment_122517848

Were we invaded by Return?

Why are you continuing to brng up irrelevent nonsense about Ukraine and soda water while ignoring the actual effective price rises on products such as Coca Cola cans thst occurred at same time as Return?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517848#Comment_122517848

Milk and butter shopping advice now! 😅

Theres plenty of foolishness baked into Re-Turn but its got nothing to do with Ukraine, milk, butter or soda water.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517880#Comment_122517880

I never saw any evidence produced on the thread that DRS caused price increases on any drinks. Prices went up and down over the years before February without any influence from DRS. All I saw was a claim from someone that the retailers had taken the "opportunity" to do price increases after DRS. With zero evidence offered.

I am not linking the price variations in soda water to anything to do with DRS. Simply counterbalancing the misinformation here claiming everything went up. And I am linking price increases that happened to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Retailers explained their reasons for that.

There are many many drinks products on sale, but all I saw referenced were Coke and Lucozade. Find out the reasons for the price increases and let us know what they are. If they are to do with DRS then show the evidence. Also are there other products that stayed the same price?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517907#Comment_122517907

Do you expect Coca Cola to come out and say oh we took advantage of Return to jack up prices?

It is a totally different situation to Ukraine.

Can you suggest where this information can be found by regular boards users? Well? You suggest it is feasible. So no, you find us the evidence explaining why the price of those products went up if you are going to dismiss the very reasonable explanation that it was done to coincide with Return.

Show your evidence.

Or was it a bad faith argument on your part to demand evidence you know cannot be obtained?

As for misinformation, you posted misinformation on this thread recently about Brexit and Return scope products.

I would also add another effective price increase caused by Return is the disappearance of for example cheap imports such as non alc lager in Dunnes, kombucha products in Holland and Barrett.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517907#Comment_122517907

If anyone said prices went up they meant prices in general not "every single product went up in price" but you know that. More pedantry and deflection. Your singular example of prices going down is soda water coming down from its post Ukraine war high price which as already discussed is unrelated to Re-Turn due to the price timeline which you brought up. You were just crowbarring it in randomly to suit your argument. However there are several good examples of prices that went up when this DRS was introduced. Thats all posters are stating. After that you draw your own conclusions.

howiya

Since the introduction of DRS, cans of soft drinks are no longer available in trays of 24. In the UK where there is no DRS, cans can be bought in trays of 24. These are also cheaper than they are down here.

Its very simple, the producer has to pay for DRS, which ultimately means the consumer is paying for DRS despite what it may say on the Re-turn website and we get higher prices.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518396#Comment_122518396

A few years from now we will look back and notice what we lost as an unintended consequence of DRS. For one, the small producers who could not relabel their stock, so who decided to just shut shop. The European producers for whom Ireland is such a small market they didnt bother getting their barcodes registered, etc.

dxhound2005

Consumer Price Index. Two items from the non-alcoholic drinks category, percentage price increases. Mineral or Spring Water and Soft Drinks. Which I will abbreviate as MW and SD.

Year up to Dec 2021 MW + 3.8%. SD + 5.3%.

June 2022 MW 7.0. SD 3.7.

Dec 2022 MW 14.8. SD 11.1.

June 2023 MW 12.6. SD 15.1.

Dec 2023 MW 4.2. SD 10.1.

March 2024 MW 4.7. SD 5.7.

June 2024 MW 4.6. SD 3.0.

July 2024 MW 5.1. SD 1.6.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpi/consumerpriceindexjuly2024/

The inflationary effect of the Russian invasion of Ukraine at the end of Feb 2022 can clearly be seen. There is no indication that DRS has made any difference since February 2024. People can point to particular configurations of Coke and Lucozade going up, suffering shrinkflation, or not being available any more. I can point to particular Soda Waters having gone down. Neither is proof of anything to do with DRS. Prices go up and down, and product lines change. Sometimes people use the highest price to make an argument. Usually there is another configuration of that product e.g. Coke cheaper.

The CPI does not count the returnable deposit as a price increase.

elperello

depends on what you buy in your shopping whether you have seen increases or not.

Go to another shop or change brand like with any price increase you find unacceptable.

I'm not sure how much of any recent increases are the result of DRS which is our main concern here.

Nobody is saying that price rises are a good thing.

The .022 cent would seem to offer a significant income stream. Seeing as the retailers were involved in setting it they hardly walked themselves into a financial black hole.

It's a bit more like when MUP came in. Despite getting the bonus of a floor price and no market competition to worry about most retailers took an extra margin.

I posted the above more than a week ago when this price increase came up.

I reiterate I am not supporting price rises to consumers.

Have we got any more information about the price increase ?

Was it wholesalers, manufacturers, retailers or all three who put their prices up ?

Usually if one in the chain increases the price the next one passes it on adding a bit to preserve their margin.

I'm still not sure that there is any obvious solution to this problem except changing brand or finding a cheaper shop.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506196#Comment_122506196

I need to lie down

patnor1011

Oh please stop trying to blame putin for price increases. If there were any they were not because of invasion but as a consequence of our reaction to it. Mostly as a response of energy prices increase due to sanctions imposed on russia but more visible and much higher price increase happened with introduction of screw-up scheme. Sometimes plainly visible on prices of a product but mostly covert one with reduction of multipack size and count.

patnor1011

And yeah, Screw-up wins. I am sick of this idiotic scheme which require you to keep containers in pristine condition and even then you need to reinsert some of them again and again, issues with vouchers, looking up for machines…

I am going to make a trip once a month to the North and buy all the water I will need simply because it is significantly cheaper than here. I only wish I was closer to the border I could go more often but I when I go I will make it count.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519817#Comment_122519817

That sort of nonsene would be fed to the Russian people and they would lap it up. People in Ireland have not been brainwashed. Visible covert prices. There's a new one.

jos28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519876#Comment_122519876

I'll be right behind you. MUP on alcohol and no ReTurn barcodes make a trip to Newry worthwhile. Sainsburys currently have their 25% off all wine deal on so it's a win win as far as I'm concerned.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519817#Comment_122519817

You can think what you like about DRS and Re-turn but stop trying to rewrite history about Putin and his murder gang.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519939#Comment_122519939

You seems to be failing to grasp simple things so let me explain them to you. Visible price increase is when 6 pack price goes up. Covert price increase is shrinkflation when 18pack cost what 24pack used to.

But sure, all of it is happening because of invasion. 🤣

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520015#Comment_122520015

Sure, but you failed to notice that your comrade is the one constantly crying that prices went up because invasion. Not me. :)

Predictable tactic, bringing in completely unrelated issue trying to steer discussion off-topic.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520035#Comment_122520035

I have no comrade in this thread or elsewhere.

You are the one who jumped to the defence of the Kremlin gangster.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520043#Comment_122520043

Can you kindly point me out where is the defence?

Please stop projecting your own conclusions as something someone else said. If you need to read that post again then go ahead and read it again till you understand that what I said is that some price increase was a direct consequence of sanctions imposed on russia after ukraine conflict started.

Kindly stop trying to derail thread with nonsense.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520081#Comment_122520081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519817#Comment_122519817

You're the one talking nonsense.

If you want to take your line on the war further check into the dedicated thread.

Potential-Monke

Evidence. I drink a crap tonne of diet coke. 6-8 cans a day. And only cans.

Pre-DRS, I could buy 24x300ml pack for standard €12 (Tesco). It would often go on sale down as low as €7.

Post-DRS: you can no longer get the 24 pack, they are all 18 packs down here now. And the standard price is €17. The special offer is usually €14, but it does drop to €10 rarely. This is when I stock up.

So, standard price has increased by about 60%, but contents have dropped by 25%. The 18 pack of regular coke replaced the 24 pack so it could be the same price as the 24 diet, pre-drs. Once drs landed, diet coke was suddenly only an 18 pack and only a euro cheaper than the 18 regular, which in case anyone isn't paying attention, is in breach of the sugar tax laws.

Also, FYI, the concentrate is made in Mayo, but then shipped to the North to be canned/bottled. The same place that still makes the 24 packs for the UK. Which cost £11, or €12.90. For 24. So in th3 Republic of Ireland, the standard price per litre is €2.86 pl. In the North, where its the same stuff from the same bottling plant, its €1.64 pl. What more evidence is needed?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520156#Comment_122520156

There you go. Asda and that is not even cheapest retailer. Plus no fuss with machines and no hoarding of empties while company is freely using your own money without interest offered.

72 cans for 24£

Potential-Monke

I'm gonna do a trip soon. I've 2 18 packs left and they haven't been on sale for a tenner in a while. If I put €200 aside I can stock myself for 21x24 cans, without a deposit, and without having to return them. That same €200 here would get me 20x18 (only when they're on sale for a tenner, otherwise 11x18), plus €54 more in drs (€29.70 on the 11 packs), and I'll have to return them all...

That €54 will cover the fuel costs and I'll still have more product but without having to hoard and return. I'm not working next weekend...

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520156#Comment_122520156

The Consumer Price Index is evidence that prices go up every year. Your post is evidence that prices went up this year. The overall category of Soft Drinks shows a 1.6% increase in the year to July. No link given anywhere to show that DRS is the cause of any increase.

Thanks for pointing out that prices can also go down temporarily. And in the case of Soda Water it seems to be a long term decrease.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519817#Comment_122519817

I visit countries where there has no rip off price increases anything like in Ireland or Europe and in the US aka the US election campaign mentions.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524146#Comment_122524146

As opposed to a tightwad disguised as a smart ass? 🙄😝🤓

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524559#Comment_122524559

You say tightwad. I say someone who's not a mug.

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424183#Comment_122424183

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424454#Comment_122424454

Well the time has finally come 🍻.

They were reduced to half price today.

Strange result. All the cans have numerous return logos for all over the world. Up to nine on a couple of the varieties. A few even have Asian logos. However only two have the Irish logo and none of the others are stickered over.

They've gone straight into the fridge so I haven't had a chance to check the barcodes yet. I'll scan as I drink 😁.

I got charged the deposit for the lot anyway so it will be interesting.

It's a bargain I've been looking forward to so I'll take the hit if they aren't all in scope. Cheers 🍺.