Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524633#Comment_122524633

Looking good. The first no-logo one is in scope.

Edit: Second one not in scope.

dxhound2005

Latest news.

https://re-turn.ie/over-400-million-plastic-bottles-and-cans-brought-back-by-people-in-ireland/

"The highest number of drinks containers returned in a single day was on Monday August 12th, with over 3.97 million plastic bottles and cans brought back by people in Ireland."

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528320#Comment_122528320

As long as Re-Turn refuse to publish how many 10s of millions of euro in deposits they are hoarding this is nothing more than propaganda.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528340#Comment_122528340

Can be counted as a rough estimate. They are saying that 3 million of them are being sold daily if I remember correctly?

Then subtract what was returned and multiply difference by say 20c as there are 15c and 25c in a mix. I get that it wont be exact number but should be pretty close.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528390#Comment_122528390

The media reports were 5 million per day, though there are seasonal variations to that.

It suggests Return are good bit off 90%.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528390#Comment_122528390

I want to see the detailed stats the same as the numbers in the above article. Let them publish exact numbers. Its our money.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524633#Comment_122524633

12 beers for €15 or €1.25 each, sounds like they aren't even reaching MUP so jump at it while you can. You never mentioned which beer?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528399#Comment_122528399

I think detailed stats are fairly useless until you have them for 12 months of full operation, you'd then need to compare them again 12 months later to see if it actually works or not

I suspect that the 5m/day figure is also lower since the introduction of DRS. Personally I've switched from canned beer to bottled beer because the machine in my local lidl keeps rejecting the beer cans. Also Foxes Rock was €2.50 for 500ml bottle in Supervalu until recently, possibly still is that price

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528570#Comment_122528570

No. They are publishing totals for returns telling us how great the scheme is. Publish deposits retained.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528586#Comment_122528586

This is just as pointless figure until the system has had time to bed in

As an example, the months of June, July and August saw a lot of festivals where people bought cans and they wound up crushed on the ground or in some regular bin so return rates would be low. Conversely, the month of December will see people in the shops more so the return rate will be high.

As another example some might do the christmas beer shop during a staycation in November so you'd see a low return rate by comparison to how much has been bought

dxhound2005

Three other things. Back in January the Minister predicted that multi packs will disappear. The big 24 multipacks which would have added a minimum of €3.60 returnable deposit, would be a turn off for shoppers. And allied to that, as the CPI figures show, they would have been foolish to pile on more big price increases at the same time. Especially on top of the very high increases caused by Covid and Russia. But DRS may have caused them to reconfigure multipacks.

"Minister Smyth said that Ireland buys the most multipack drinks in the EU, and speculated that “it is likely multipacks will disappear” from supermarkets as people will have to pay a deposit on each drink in the pack."

Bottles in the North still have untethered caps. The producers here waited until the very last minute to tether them, even though they knew for years that the law was coming. Even if only a few million caps stayed out of the rivers and the ocean, they should be doing it without being forced by law.

I got the Sept to Nov 2024 bill from my waste company today. Still the same price as before.

sligeach

I think retail staff and security guards are making a nice little side earner from this deposit return scam. The amount of times I've gone into shops and seen staff emptying bags of cans and plastic bottles into the machines is unreal. I've asked myself where are they getting them, and it's possibly from the bins outside or when the machines are broken and people just dump them in the reject items bin.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528613#Comment_122528613

If all stats are so pointless why do you think Re-Turn publishing returned container stats and not deposits hoarded stats?

bog master

I would like to see what's happening to PET containers. Recycled or incinerated?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528834#Comment_122528834

Recycled according to the return website. No proof to contradict them as far as I'm aware. Could you imagine the scandal if they were incinerated?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529026#Comment_122529026

Indeed.

We are being told that the Re-turn management and staff are on such a good thing so why would they risk it ?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528652#Comment_122528652

Surely it doesn't matter if they make a few bob on the side.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528395#Comment_122528395

I doubt they'll be anywhere near 90% this soon.

They have until 2030 to reach that EU target anyway.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529055#Comment_122529055

Thats a lot of deposits going to Return if only say 80% being claimed back.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529026#Comment_122529026

Does it actually say that or is it vague aspirational language ?

Last time I looked there was nothing firm from them. They recycle nothing themselves.

I think it is very much an open question.

bog master

There is no proof of anything!

How we getting on with the manual returns the Minister spoke about?

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528834#Comment_122528834

Plenty of data from the epa.ie website that says the vast majority of plastic collected in Ireland gets incinerated. I have not seen anything solid from Re-turn saying they have put plastic recycling capacity in place in Ireland, no mention of deals with European partners to recycle our plastic. Their website is vague All containers collected will be sent for recycling. The Deposit Return Scheme focuses on maximising the volume and quality of material collected for recycling

Has Ireland's plastic recycling capacity suddenly increased? No

Has Re-turn said anything about where the plastic is going? Dunno, but I sure am suspicious it is heading to the same place it always has, the incinerator (hope I am wrong).

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529256#Comment_122529256

It's an EU target.

That includes countries that have DRS for years.

We would hardly be up there after 7 months.

MagaBot

Yesterday I had an employee say to me that my DRS voucher "couldn't be" cashed (all the manned tills were closed at the time and they were watching over the self-service checkouts). They then wanted to see the DRS voucher, sighed, was looking at it for a moment, sighed again, was thinking for a while with me just standing there and then reluctantly opened the nearest till. Then at the end kinda aggressively thew the cash in my hand and didn't say anything.

How should one feel when treated like this from a shop staff member? I get it that they might have had a long day or whatever and opening a till is effort, but it still seems like an inappropriate way to behave to customers.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529638#Comment_122529638

The customer is always right.

(and even if they're not they're always the customer) 😊

purplefields

-Reduce

-Reuse

-Recycle

In that order.

I was speaking to someone earlier that mentioned that their daughter was keen to buy plastic water bottles. Usually her daughter would refill a metal flask. Anyway, she started buying bottled water for her daughter. Finally twigged that the only reason she wanted the bottles was so she could collect the deposit! So much for Reduce!

Mentioned earlier in this thread is the observation that we are now being charged more for the drinks because the containers are no longer included in the price. If you want to reuse your plastic container, you now have to 'buy' it. No more Reuse!

Recycle. Has there actually been an increase in recycling plastic, or is the same proportion being incinerated?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528613#Comment_122528613

In other words we will never get to that magic 90% we were told the scheme is designed to lead to.

Also, there is genuine interest to see those numbers to see how much is unclaimed as there should be some transparency to see where this money actually end up. Not to mention that we still have zero information on what is happening with collected material and what revenue is that generating and if the material is really recycled or just dumped somewhere else like incinerator for example. It will not be the case with cans as we all know it is a valuable resource but what is happening with plastic?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529026#Comment_122529026

Nope.

According to their website it is all shipped to a company in Limerick where it is compressed and baled.

Nobody knows where it go from there.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529041#Comment_122529041

How are they making it though? Are they purposely leaving the machines out of order? Aldi are the worst, the stingy gits only have 1 machine in store. I haven't seen any Aldi store with 2 machines.

I've been in Aldi and told the retail staff their machine isn't working, only to be told "it's not working today." Same store, same issue today, I was politely calling after a member of staff that there was an issue, and she was saying one minute. Then a few minutes later another member of staff came out, and opened the machine and reset it. I thanked her, no response, she had a sour face, idk, maybe she was having a bad day, because she's actually one of the few really nice people working there. There's some absolute ₱####$ that work there.

I've been in shops and the machines are out of order. I've had to leave the cans and bottles there because I'm using the same bag for my shopping. I've seen countless people do the same. It's especially bad and annoying for people who are walking.

odyssey06

Aldi Bayside has 2 rvms but frequently one or the other OOO, although so far at least operational for me

Have seen LIDL and Supervalus where both RVMs down at same time.

Yeah total PITA if on foot or bike and you get to a store and no RVM working.