Correcting for the SEC

2021profile

Hi,

I corrected for the SEC well over a decade ago.

I am aware that many things have changed since then, namely the increase in pay and the introduction of online marking.

I have a few questions:

Would it still be financially worthwhile for a full time teacher to correct? I recall how much went on tax the last time I did it.

Also, what is the online marking like?

What has to be done on the sprioc lá day?

I won't be available on the Sprioc lá day this year. I vaguely remember from when I corrected last, I think I either went to the post office or went back up to Athlone with the bag of scripts ( my memory fails me!)

TIA

spurious

Online marking much easier - no counting of papers, totting, working out statistics. It's a dream.

Sprioc Lá is the day by which everything has to be sent off (emailed) - reports etc. You could easily have it all done by the day before (or earlier).

I can't speak on the money thing as I am not a full time teacher and it would depend on your tax situation, but the rates are SUBSTANTIALLY up on ten years ago.

amacca

Sorry to hijack but this is somewhat related….

Can anyone tell me definitively if you can make a contribution to an AVC in respect of income from correcting?

I know its not pensionable….in that it wont be reckonable/counted for your teaching pension but surely as its over 50% or more gone in tax you can make a contribution to an PRSA/AVC in respect of it and somewhat soften the blow by providing some supplementation for a pension?

If you cant do that, then the tax really is punitive for the work and time involved and you might be better off finding a part time gig you can make contributions to an AVC on to reduce the tax deductions and give you more benefit for your time and effort….there is definitely over half of it gone for good if you cant ……for a what amounts to a month of your time….when you take that into account it don't look that great tbh

Does anyone know definitively? Is there a rule that if its under PRSI class S or S0 then that's it, you definitely cannot make contributions to an PRSA/AVC in respect of that employment?

Geuze

I can't see why you couldn't make AVCs in repect of all your income, including these earnings.

Note that there are age-related limits, and earnings limits.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/pension/relief/how-to-claim.aspx

Rental income can't be used as a base for AVCs, but wage income can be.

Limitations on AVCs
There are a number of limitations on AVCs:
• Only current active members of occupational pension schemes can contribute to an AVC, i.e. an
employee and current member of their employer’s occupational pension scheme.
• If the consumer leaves employment, he or she has to stop contributing to their AVCs related to that
employment.
• The maximum limit for income tax relief on employee contributions to all occupational pension
schemes of the same employment includes AVCs.
The benefits provided under the employer’s occupational pension scheme and under the AVC cannot
in total exceed the normal maximum Revenue approvable benefits for that individual.
If the combination of both scheme benefits gives rise to benefits in excess of the maximum Revenue
approvable benefits, then the benefits under the employer’s occupational pension scheme will be
reduced and if this gives rise to a surplus it may be returned to the employer as a taxable trading
receipt.
It is therefore important that individuals do not over contribute to AVCs at a level which may give
rise to total benefits in excess of Revenue maximum approvable benefits as otherwise they could
effectively end up subsidising their employer's contribution to the employer occupational pension
scheme.

Treppen

What exactly is the story with marking exams. Are you an employee or contractor?

spurious

Contractor I believe.

amacca

Does being a contractor have implications for ability to contribute to an avc?

Getting conflicting info from two separate sources in revenue on it no less....two separate "advisors" one a paid financial advisor and an accountant can't seem to give a definitive answer either.

+ a pensions advisor that works with the accountancy firm said "its a very complex area" and ask the department....so maybe I'll fo that....I would have thought revenue would get the definitive source...

Ffs you think it would be a relatively straightforward cut and dried yes or no…and if it's a no there would be a decent justification

Would it be that you have to have a separate avc in respect of the sec stuff...it can't be linked to other employment?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227448#Comment_122227448

Well exam supervisors get a P60, or whatever it's called now.

So they are employees.

I feel it's the same for examiners.

The SEC is an employer in your Revenue account.

amacca

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2010-09-29/104/ 

couldn't get the above to work as a link and it's from 2010 ...but they are mentioning the prd at that stage applying to sec work even though its not pensionable

Seems like wanting to eat your cake and have it afterwards too if you can't contribute to an avc combined with your main employment on the basis of it....they are clearly linking the taxation to your main employment…

Will investigate further, I find it amazing a definitive answer isn't immediately forthcoming from at least one of yhe sources I've asked.

Geuze

If you are a serving teacher, with an AVC, you would not have a separate AVC just for the SEC earnings.

But you can contribute to your AVC based on the SEC earnings.

Geuze

Here is an example.

Teacher earns 50k

SEC earnings 5k.

You can make contributions to your AVC based on the 55k earnings.

No need for any advisor, I am telling you that now.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228775#Comment_122228775

I appreciate that, thank you. I have a written communication on revenue online that directly contradicts what I think and what you are saying.

I will query it. Such a faff.

It's quite something that a range of professionals one would assume would be somewhat familiar and revenue themselves don't seem to know.

Geuze

Rental earnings do not count for calculating "net relevant earnings for pension contributions".

Wages incomes do count.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/pensions/chapter-26.pdf

seekingthetruth

Can the same be asked for Superintending?

Can I take the receipt / P60 / income earnings in writing from the SEC to Cornmarket and then have it applied to my AVC deduction even if only at the end of the tax year?

Geuze

I have checked this out further.

"AVC's are only in relation to the income earned from the employer that has the pension scheme. The additional €5k SEC wages can't be included when calculating the amount that can go into an AVC."

There is a suggestion that a second AVC could be set up, for the second employment.

The extra SEC earnings can't be used as a base to add pension conts to the main AVC that is linked to the main employment.

But, the extra SEC earnings are "PRSAable, but not as an AVC to the main employment."

2021profile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225451#Comment_122225451

Thanks spurious for your reply and all of that information, I really appreciate it.

As I will be paying full tax, I was wondering if it would be worth my while? For example, would OL leaving cert English pay well after tax? Or JC history?

If anyone has an idea what I might take home after tax for these subjects..

TIA

spurious

On the full tax, well….it's better than it was, perhaps others here who are on full tax can advise you, by PM if they like.

In terms of money per paper, I would expect LC OL History to pay more than JC Common Level History, though I do not know the exact amounts.

amacca

It worked out about 52% of my OHs take home was deducted in various taxes/charges if that's any help...might be a rough rule of thumb if you are on the top rate

Geuze

Anybody who earns more than 42k in Ireland in 2024 faces a crazy high marginal tax rate of 48.5%

tax = 40%

PRSI = 4%

USC = 4.5%

Newbie20

Aa

Cairnq1

Re AVC's for SEC income. you cannot make 'extra AVC contributions' to an existing AVC scheme for a different income source. If for example you are a member of the Cornmarket ASTI AVC scheme you can only make contributions to that group scheme from your dept of ed. superannuated salary. However, you can set up a PRSA(personal retirement savings account) and get tax relief on the contributions at your marginal rate for your SEC income. You could then make single contributions year after year to that PRSA for each year you earn SEC to avail of the tax relief. By doing this you are reducing the tax liability on the SEC income.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511556#Comment_122511556

Found that out just recently....can you add other additional incomes (ie make contributions for the tax relief up to the relevant limits) into the non avc prsa do you know?

Or do you have to open up a load of other additional prsas for other additional incomes do you know?

Cairnq1

you can use one prsa for all additional incomes that are not pensionable. if your marginal rate is 40% on the additional incomes, pension (prsa) is generally a good idea, in that you recieve tax relief @40% and can look forward to a tax free lump sum in the future and if your income in retirement is under €42K (probably going to €44k in the next budget) you will be taxed on the lower rate when drawing benefits.

gaiscioch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511556#Comment_122511556

Does it need to be set up for SEC income to get the tax benefits, though? I closed my Cornmarket AVC and set up a PRSA/AVC with Zurich and I just pay my SEC and other income in there once a year and it, as far as I know, gets the same tax benefits as I got when the AVC was with Cornmarket, with the relevant payment reduced from my salary directly.

Cairnq1

Correct, you set up an individual prsa AVC. This can accept the contribution related to the SEC income or any other employment. Just to clarify…. if the AVC is part of a group scheme then it can only accept contributions relative to the income in that employment. e.g a teacher in the INTO AVC scheme can only make contributions relative to their dept of ed. superannuated income. A 'stand alone' PRSA AVC set up by an individual can accept from different income sources.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559086#Comment_122559086

Thanks, I appreciate the info...

One final question, in general is there a lower amount/lower limit the life companies won't bother dealing with you on the additional income.....if the contribution in a given year is only a couple of thousand is that too low for them to do business etc...or is their variance among how little they will accept etc

Or is that a case of ringing/emailing around etc

spurious

Money went in today . Early JC subject. Crucified for tax at the high rate, when my income never comes anywhere near it, but I suppose I will get it back in January.

pandoraj09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561057#Comment_122561057

Hi. I've just retired. Today is my actually my first day as a retired teacher. Is it possible to get back some of the high tax we get taken off us for the SEC work when we retire? Thanks in advance

jrmb

Similar story for me last year. I finished with €2000 net for working July, and decided I was better off cutting something than working more.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570235#Comment_122570235

It depends what your pension is. Mine is under 17k, so even with additional SEC money and a bit of money from an Airbnb room, I never come near the higher tax rate, so I get the overpayment back when I make a return.