The Government spreading misinformation on immigration

Sunny Disposition

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/06/06/referendums-risked-legal-uncertainty-for-migration-rules-officials-warned/

The Government were happy to hold two referendums as a massively expensive virtue signalling exercise, to coincide with international women's day. And they were lying about the impact of one of those referendums.

They spent months complaining about right wing misinformation, but don't see a problem lying to the public themselves.

In a more functional political culture Roderic would have to fall on his sword here.

Hoof Hearted2

You mean to say there is no certainty about uncertain scenarios?

What a bastard O' Gorman is, he should get a better crystal ball!

Boggles

An other one.

We need a 'I'm Terrified of Foreign People' sub forum.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058354787/the-government-spreading-misinformation-on-immigration

Roderic lied to the public - the ditch article pre referendum showed this and now this.

the fact he is still a minister never mind a TD is a damning indictment of our political class.

emo72

He should have resigned. It was a barefaced lie. Pure gaslighting.

Backstreet Moyes

Lies and misinformation are fine unless you are far right or centre and speak common sense.

Their lies are okay because they are morally superior good people so they don't have to hold themselves to the same standards.

They can spread lies and misinformation but preach about the danger of it.

I mean in what other country would this man be still in office.

We are too quiet.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225632#Comment_122225632

It does strike me that you are correct, figures in Government were very vocal about misinformation about immigration throughout last winter and this Spring. And that'd be fine if they were acting with integrity themselves.

Now we have a report in the country's top newspaper that a Government minister received top drawer legal advice on the impact of the referendum on immigration and then sought to mislead the people about the impact of the changes being proposed.

The rise of the far right is not inevitable, but it is if the centre parties tolerate this kind of behaviour. FF and FG should insist on his departure.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225546#Comment_122225546

What do you expect though, we are now being lead by a Toaiseach whos actions as minister brought down the last Dail. They don't know how to hold account of themselves. Say what you like about politics in the UK but at least they resign quickly over there.

RandomName2

I don't think the government's handling of asylum in the last two years can be described as anything other than disastrous.

No, not migrant workers. No, not Ukrainian refugees. Specifically asylum applications. I shouldn't have to specify that I am talking about asylum applications when I am talking about asylum applications but for some reason when anyone mentions asylum applications the government lies by saying 'we need foreign nurses' or something else entirely unrelated.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225531#Comment_122225531

Yeah takes preternatural abilities to see that inviting half the sodding globe to be given their own door accommodation in four months was a bad idea.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225927#Comment_122225927

Why do you think asylum applications can't take up jobs in Ireland if they are successful?

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226062#Comment_122226062

Of course they can, but should we also ignore what happened in Sweden where huge numbers still haven't after years and all the problems that resulted from flooding areas with large numbers of asylum seekers. Also should we ignore that the government themselves went far right recently and admitted that the majority of the ones currently arriving in large numbers every week are not even genuine.

Should we ignore that The Netherlands found that it cost the state something like 18 billion over ten years as the majority didn't find work. Or that 75% of Somalians on average across Europe never bother to gain any employment (we are getting lots from there at the moment every week). Genuine cases should be helped, but anybody that claims that all of the current arrivals are completely genuine is basically lying, why should we accommodate everybody chancing their arm at taxpayers expense?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226107#Comment_122226107

You see now you are jumping all over Europe to try back up a claim that was wrong in the first place, we have seen what has gone wrong in other countries and should look at them. Burning down potential buildings for these people and running around with little groups of racists abusing people is not working either.

"why should we accommodate everybody chancing their arm at taxpayers expense?" we have plenty of irish who are doing exactly this for many years, should we do something abotu them as well?

"we are gettng lots from there at the moment every week"? anything to back this up? how many?

Sunny Disposition

The fact that the debate on a thread about a Government minister lying veers into the merits of immigration policy perhaps shows why Roderic did what he did.

There may be a belief in certain circles that lying to the public is acceptable because you are a worthy, enlightened person. In reality if you lie you are just as untrustworthy as those who spread fake stores about violent immigrants. If O'Gorman lied about the legal implications about changing the Constitution, how can he be taken at face value on anything?

Jinglejangle69

The fact Roderic is still in a job after 20 children going missing from statecare under his watch tells you all you need to know.

There is zero accountability anymore in this country and it’s quickly going down the gutter.

hotmail.com

Talking about removing the women in the home section for the last 30 years and Roderic messed the whole thing up.

How is he still a minister.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226204#Comment_122226204

Because Irish people are on the dole long term we should let everybody come from all over the world and do that too? Amazing argument that, limitless magic money for all.

Jumping all over Europe might be a good idea no, Sweden in particular is the perfect example of what happens when you don't manage this properly and just let everybody in over years and put huge numbers in areas with no idea how to sustain them. But no that's not relevant in any way.

We have seen what's wrong in other countries and we are copying what they did at the moment, not seeing how that's learning anything or doing things differently? What claim was wrong in the first place by the way? Asylum seekers in general are an overall cost to the economy rather than a benefit in basically every study ever done on the subject.

Also:

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/294011/31ec549e-367c-43ee-bc7b-51296a565f24.pdf#page=null

21 from Somalia that week, about the same most weeks. And yes, they are mostly unemployed all across Europe

MrMusician18

Strictly speaking O'Gorman didn't lie. What he said was that the AG advised him that there would be no impact in immigration law. The problem is though that is merely an opinion, albeit an educated one.

His opinion may indeed have been correct but what the officials are pointing out is that such an opinion would at a minimum need to be validated by the courts as the referendum wording left other interpretations possible, if not likely. The officials pointed out that they would need to defend their interpretation in court and it would be costly, and there was a risk that even after that they might not win.

The problem really is that the AGs opinion is often reported as a final independent determination but the AG is a political appointment. There have been a number of times where the govt have reported that a measure would be legally impossible on foot of the AGs advice (such as rent freezes) when ultimately the political pressure gets too great and they find a way of doing it.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226255#Comment_122226255

the ditch proved - and it wasnt denied - that the AG did advise him differently

he did lie.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226221#Comment_122226221

I couldnt agree enough with you Jinglejangle69.

How come within government and public service in general there is no accountability. It's sickening the incompetence we're seeing but nothing is been done

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226251#Comment_122226251

It wasn't an argument, it was a point.

How are we copying what they did in Europe?

20 last week, in a population of 5m.

Seriously people, is this the "great replacement" we have all the fruit loops going on about

The government should lock down the process, if a person has a valid reason they should be accepted, if not they should be rejected. We shoudl also stop the amount of useless waffle been posted across the web byt people who haven't a f**king clue what they are talking about

Topgear on Dave

A political hit piece the day before an election. Not entirely unexpected.

Best ignored.

Augme

Speaking of misinformation, I do feel leaving out this piece on the article is quite an interesting approach. People in glass houses etc etc.

“The advice referred to was provided significantly in advance of the final wording of the referendum text being agreed late last year.”

Mr O’Gorman’s spokesman said: “The Minister’s remarks reflect advice from the Attorney General.”

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225531#Comment_122225531

he was asked on the AG advice and his reply was not what the AG advised.

he was asked in the dail if there was any immigration impact and replied "no". thats a pretty certain answer..

he mislead so he lied .

he needs to go

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225544#Comment_122225544

How about we make an 'I'm terrified of the truth' one for you instead?

ToweringPerformance

There has been more sightings of bigfoot than O'Gorman these last few weeks.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225632#Comment_122225632

Russia ?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225544#Comment_122225544

Because anything other than full support of unregulated immigration is based in racism and or xenophobia.

Spon Farmer

I believe the situation is “ I’m terrified people will think we don’t like foreigners “.
This country can’t handle the amount of people that the government are taking in regardless of right or left politics.
It is just stupidity.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226456#Comment_122226456

We don't have unregulated immigration.

That misconception and the obsessive self fear mongering probably is based on racism and xenophobia though.

I imagine peoples social media algorithms having a complete field day with them contributes too.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226476#Comment_122226476

Asylum seekers arriving with no passports on planes and across the NI border is pretty unregulated migration.

What could be more unregulated than illegally crossing the border and destroying your documents and then abusing the asylum system?