0.22LR Pistol License dealing with difficult Garda

tonysopprano

Regarding your next, possibly to court.

The law at the moment states, they have 3mths to consider otherwise it is refused and you have to be notified in writing BUT Section 15A (5) b and c states that if you did not receive written notification, then so what you should have known and tough totties, the 30 day period still applies.

F91[Appeal to District Court.

Sect 15A.

(2) An appeal shall be made within 30 days of receipt of notice of the decision concerned.

F38[Applications for, and form and effect of, firearm certificates.

Sect 3.

(9) A decision on an application for a firearm certificate or its renewal shall be given within 3 months from the date on which the applicant submitted a completed application form.

(10) Where the application is refused, the applicant shall be informed in writing of the refusal and the reason for it.

F91[Appeal to District Court.

Sect 15A

(5) For the purposes of this section—

(a) an issuing person—

(i) who is required under section 3(9), 4A(7) or 10(4F) to decide on an application within a specified period, and

(ii) who does not so decide,

is deemed to have decided to refuse to grant the application,

(b) the applicant is deemed to have received notice of the decision on the expiration of that period, and

(c) as the case may be, section 3(10) does not apply in relation to the application.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122314681#Comment_122314681

I hear you, as I said I sympathise and hope it works out for the OP.

I just don't have a lot of faith in the courts when it comes to firearms and law abiding citizens in Ireland.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315819#Comment_122315819

Would a 90% +/- win ratio over the last 20 years for gun owners restore your faith in the Judicial system? They[DC judges] have been utterly impartial and just in dealing with these cases nationwide, and even the very few that have been refused the judges have IMO given fair play decisions based on law and not personal biases fitted to be the law.

As one lady judge said on one refusal case,it had been the most interesting and passionately fought case from both sides she had passed before her as a Dist Justice in a long while .

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315819#Comment_122315819

I think your lack of faith is misplaced. My opinion is based not only on first hand experience myself but also on how friends of mine got on in their appeal cases. I've seen no instances at all of any negative bias by the courts.

The issue is that not enough people take a stand when they need to with the local PTB. I'm not suggesting every situation requires a court case, far from it, but sadly sometimes it is the only solution if there is no attempt for some resolution locally.

In addition, now that it is possible to get costs refunded if one wins an appeal case, there is even more reason to go to court if there is no other option.

One thing for certain is that if you give in once then you have marked yourself as someone they can push around. As most sports shooters / hunters are in this for the long game, ofteny for life, that can mean years of grief and being dictated to on all things firearm related. Better, for sure, to foster a good relationship, but it takes both sides to do that of course.

csirl

There was a High Court case about Gardai delaying/refusing licenses a number of years ago. A Judicial Review was taken by a group of applicants. Gardai got absolutely roasted in court to the extent that the Judge stopped the case and had stong words with them.

csirl

Found a news report on it:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/high-court-judge-in-warning-on-disturbing-gun-licence-practices/26813541.html

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316690#Comment_122316690

Fair enough.
I did not think that costs could be refunded in the event of a successful outcome, that is good to hear.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318098#Comment_122318098

…… https://www.courts.ie/rules/costs-si-no-17-2014

Grizzly 45

At the judges discretion that is,and more likely to happen the longer the case is dragged out.

J.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316740#Comment_122316740

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/high-court-challenge-to-gun-licence-refusal-is-settled-1.455035 ……

garrettod

Hi,

If you are a member of the NARGC or IFA Countryside, I'd phone them and ask them to assist.

No guarantees, but also nothing to loose - they might be able to exert a little pressure, or call in a favour.

The IFA Countryside team are meeting the Gardai this month, to discuss the experience of members when applying for licences, so I'd get this on their agenda.

Calahonda52

Food for thought in the context of taking on the AGS

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2024/0704/1458251-garda-corruption-joseph-doyle/

warez

Bit of an update:

My solicitor got a call from Sgt. Saying that matter has been passed to super. He will make final decision after interview with me. Noone from superintendent's office made any contact with me so far.

Nearly 7 months at this stage.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349218#Comment_122349218

So basically they are telling you that your application has spent 7 months on your firearms officers/ firearms sgt's desk and they are only now passing it up the Decision maker's desk, despite the LAW stating that overall it should have been adjudicated in 3 months.

I am going to stop now.

Maybe you need a new solicitor, who at least knows the Firearms Act

warez

I have an excellent Solicitor. It is all down to incompetence of Firearm officer.

warez

I met Garda Inspector this morning. She said it right to my face that they don't want pistols in the country and this is why delay was there. She told me she will grant me licence warned me not to look for more then one pistol.

She told me rifle will be no issue in the future. It is pistols that they are after.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368061#Comment_122368061

So, next rifle you apply for will be a .50bmg since she said "rifle will be no issue in the future" right? 😂
I can see her tune changing extremely fast, and all of those words, if they weren't written down, are worth exactly zilch.

Grizzly 45

Remind her too, that those decisions are two ranks at least above her and her pay grade.She is just a mouth and the decision on granting or not lies with her boss the superintendent.And its not up to what "They"want either.They are public servants of the people of Ireland,and if the people want to change the law on this . That's what we have politicians and a Dail for. Their job is to enforce the law as it stands not interpret or add on clauses and other hurdles it to suit their own likes or dislikes. Seems they need regular reminding of this fact in the courts and in these incidents.

warez

Hi All

Good news. Letter arrived this morning.

Solicitor gave a case bit of push. Overall very disappointing approach from Gardai.

Will apply for rifle next week

garrettod

Well done!

madmac187

I had the same issue, it got to 12 months, didn’t get solicitor write them registered letters remind them of the legislation. They ignored the first one. Then said application was lost. So I asked them who should I report due to breach of GDPR. Then a super intendant said it is rejected. I asked why and where is the rejection letter. They said something along the lines of community opinion kind of shite. So I made them aware of legislation, also made them aware of the libel they stated against me that is untrue and unlawful and that I was going to pursue it and a chief super contacted me saying there was no need for the pistol. I simple stated to him it is not restricted and I don’t see what it has to do with him and that the matter of a libel case would be brought, a GDPR infringement would be reported and solicitor was going to get involved with application as he did not issue me with a rejection letter with regard to application. FO rang me next day apologising for delay and sent the permit within a week. Just bullies because they didn’t want the pistol in the district. To clarify I have 100% perfect record.

Grizzly 45

So I made them aware of legislation, also made them aware of the libel they stated against me that is untrue and unlawful and that I was going to pursue it 

Point of law. Rough definitions.

Slander more like.

Libe;l an individual, or body writes, produces or uses social media too these days and publishes a lie or something demeaning that would reduce your good reputation in the eyes of the public and then disseminate it publically by any means.

Slander is when they wrote or said something and that would demean or damage your reputation and make it public knowledge by any means but didn't publish it in writing openly for the public to see.

It's a serious legal thing in Ireland our libel and slander laws.

Apart from that… Well done, and it is really a SAD comment on aGS that you, or anyone else, would have to put up with such an attitude and obstructionism and harassment. It's up to you but if you wanted to a letter to the Garda Ombudsman, esp on the slander allegation, it would soften their coughs quite a lot too.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403357#Comment_122403357

Well done. I may have missed another post. But what was the libel (or slander) issue?

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403357#Comment_122403357

fair play to you, shower of f***ers

Grizzly 45

From the OP

I asked why and where is the rejection letter. They said something along the lines of community opinion kind of shite. So I made them aware of legislation, also made them aware of the libel they stated against me that is untrue and unlawful .

So was AGS going around asking Madmac 187s neighbours for their opinions on him owning a pistol or telling them that he was applying for such? Would be very unusual,but considering we have had another Sgt hauling in someone's missus to ask about her husband having one…..Nothing would surprise me anymore here.

madmac187

I would hope he didn’t lol because both the neighbours are guards and we don’t get along lol planning stroke they tried to pull but anyway.

warez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403357#Comment_122403357

And this is why I got my solicitor involved. I don't have patience to deal with incompetent public servant who think that their will is a law.

Saying that I'm sure that a lot of people just gave up trying to get licence cause of all this bullying.