Adult Sibling and Grandchildren Living In Home, Parent Dies

nodrog2013

Widow: 4 adult children.

All adult children married.

Adult child 1, 2 and 3 have own homes.

Adult child 4, along with her DH and adult grandchildren live with widow.(and have done for past 30 years).

Widow dies. Will, leaves house to all 4 adult children.

Can adult children 1 2 and 3 force adult child 4 to sell the home, it will mean they are homeless. They are 60, don't have savings.

Adult child 4 is executor.

TIA

Mick ah

Short answer: yes

Long answer: how much of the value of the house do adult children 1, 2 and 3 want to spend on legal representation?

endofrainbow

Depends on the exact wording of the will - ie. cannot be sold without the consent of all 4 or right to reside or right to residency, or maybe a life interest.

Buddy Bubs

If the widow is still alive, I suggest getting clarification of her wishes asap.

Both my parents had siblings that never moved out of my grandparents home, both were given right to reside until death and then passed to any surviving siblings.

It was agreed in advance and respected in both cases

Could be war otherwise if there's misunderstanding, siblings will fight to the last penny over wills in some cases

nodrog2013

Thank you.

I can see things getting very difficult for them all (not my family thankfully).

nodrog2013

Widow is still alive. Adult children 1, 2 and 3 have not seen the will. They are under the understanding that house will be split 4 ways however I've a feeling the widow will make an allowance for adult 4 who lives with her, as all the others have their own homes, adult 4 looks after the widows daily needs.

endofrainbow

Pure conjecture until the other 3 actually see the contents of the will.

nodrog2013

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122238507#Comment_122238507

They were verbally informed by the mother that everything will be split 4 ways but as you say unless there is sight of the will it's all up in the air.

Padre_Pio

I suppose children have no rights to their family home if the parent/owner dies. What would they be considered as? Licensees? Maybe not even.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122238990#Comment_122238990

They are licensees of the mother. When she dies and the executor tells them to get out, they will be trespassers. They should have bought a house long ago.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122238970#Comment_122238970

Be aware that this may have been true at the time the mother told them.

It is also possible that the mother may have changed her mind in the intervening period.

nodrog2013

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241684#Comment_122241684

Adult 4 IS the executor ie the adult child living in the home with her adult children (the grand children of the widow)

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242398#Comment_122242398

Adult 4 will have to resign as executor if she intends to squat in the property when the mother dies. She will be utterly conflicted.

loyatemu

could be tax implications for the non-resident 3, though only if it's a particularly valuable house or there are significant other assets.

If I were one of the non-resident 3, I wouldn't be making any plans for the inheritance money, it could get very messy.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122237580#Comment_122237580

It should be emphasised that if you take a case these days, it’s not at all automatic that the legal fees come out of the estate- you could be left with a legal bill yourself - this is to stop the practice of siblings challenging wills where they end up having no financial penalty if the case doesn’t go their way - especially in cases where they were left little or nothing ie nothing to lose in taking a case in the past as costs came out of the estate - it’s not like that anymore

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244861#Comment_122244861

There will be no question of fees being taken from the estate unless there is a challenge to the validity of the will. If the house is split 4 ways and one of the 4 want to say the will was invalid because it failed to make adequate provision for them, there is a possibility the costs could come from the estate. The problem with this is that the house will then have to be sold to discharge the costs.

If there is no challenge to the validity and one refuses to consent to the sale and the others take action the costs will come from that persons 1/4 share.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282325#Comment_122282325

But if that challenge fails, isn’t the person taking the challenge then personally liable for the costs of that challenge ie it no longer comes from the estate which happened in the past

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122237928#Comment_122237928

"I've a feeling the widow will make an allowance for adult 4 who lives with her, as all the others have their own homes, adult 4 looks after the widows daily needs."

This is kinda key point. Adult 4 has not just lived in the family home but has cared for their widowed mother on behalf of all siblings. It would be very odd if that commitment of time & work was not recognised in the will. The idea of leaving the house to all 4 to split evenly would not recognise the value of that commitment on it's own. The mother would hopefully be leaving all her other assets to Adult 4, which would be sufficient to either buy out the others or when added to the split, sufficient to get suitable accommodation elsewhere. If they are not, the will will be perverse.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282417#Comment_122282417

The court has a discretion.

Claw Hammer

That would go to a moral duty but there are a lot of factors at play. Adult 4 has been living rent free for years as well. Some parents believe that equality is equity.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282570#Comment_122282570

I would consider living rent free for life is recognising the value of the commitment.

Furze99

I wouldn't. Watching out for and eventually caring for someone elderly is a very significant financial contribution. If you want to crassly monetise it, look up the costs of this sort of care provided by commercial carers. The rates per month far exceed rents many times over.

In fact traditionally, this was exactly the arrangement many entered into. One family took in the elderly parents and other elderly relations, minded them till death and then benefited from the legacy.

MakersMark

Widow would be advised to leave something small at least to 1, 2 and 3.

Otherwise, they have stronger grounds to contest any will, arguing they were forgotten.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282809#Comment_122282809

 'you want to crassly monetise it,'

I would suggest that is what you are doing, by expecting the widow to leave all her assets to that one child.

The person caring for their parent, is rewarded by living rent free for life.

Either way, the widow really should clarify what she wants to happen in the event of her death. And the adult in the family home, should be planning for their own future.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282809#Comment_122282809

There is a big difference between caring for someone who has dementia and doubly incontinent and living in someone's house and helping them haul in the coal from the yard and bringing them to the church and the occasional doctor's appointment.