Emmanuel Macron dissolves French parliament and calls snap elections

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324595#Comment_122324595

I never said anything about France invading Eastern Europe that’s ridiculous.

France has a colonial empire in Africa in everything but name and minus the outright brutality of the 18th and 19th centuries. Maintaining that empire is popular within France hence Macron taking a tough stance with Russia who were threatening that.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324595#Comment_122324595

France has kind of shot themselves in the foot. Look into the CFA franc and how they use it to get beneficial trade deals. The reserves of these countries also has to be kept in France. It’s a mess of their own making.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324939#Comment_122324939

Yes basket case African countries essentially pegged to the Euro.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324980#Comment_122324980

I don't know that much about it, but was listening to a podcast a while ago where it was mentioned (think it was an episode of "The Red Line").

The person speaking (can't remember who I am afraid) said there was a tradeoff involved in the African countries who persist with it. When the world economy is bad, it can stabilise these economies and control inflation. They are more protected from attacks on the currency. So there is a benefit set against a reduction of control over their own monetary policy/economies.

You will note that Ireland itself has never really had complete freedom as regards our own monetary policy. I think it is a preserve and advantage of the largest and richest countries to set it as suits them best, that small countries just never have in reality.

Staying inside or outside association with the Euro, the African countries involved are not that at the moment, will possibly never be that??

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324750#Comment_122324750

It's a fair point. Also, I don't think Le Pen is anywhere near as extreme as the AfD in Germany - they are a genuine bunch of headbangers / racists.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324939#Comment_122324939

France doesn't force any of those countries to do that though? They choose to profit from a perceived stability in the Euro, which they also had when they pegged to the French Franc. Same as when the Irish pound chose to be aligned to the pound sterling - was that "British Napoleonism" or a new British Empire?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324842#Comment_122324842

So what was your point about Ukraine and Napoleon then? Was Boris Johnson also being Naoleonic when he landed up in Kiev?

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325207#Comment_122325207

Taking a robust posture against those who threaten France’s overseas African empire is a very Napoleonic gesture and should play well to the gallery of French national pride.

I was not suggesting that macron had any territorial ambitions in Ukraine.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325247#Comment_122325247

That's not what happened though. France doesn't have an overseas African empire. It lost long ago, like the British.

That's just your determination to put that reading onto it, when you don't do the same about the UK or indeed Ireland sending UN forces into Africa.

And you specifically linked Macron and Ukraine to Napoleon - so what exactly was that meant to imply?

Soc_Alt

I think it's right for France to change direction so I'm not surprised with the result, Germany will follow in the next Election.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325158#Comment_122325158

Yes - they are mostly former French colonies who, upon independence, chose to continue to use the French Franc for its relative stability compared to any currency they could have put in place. When the FF disappeared in favour of the Euro, those countries requested to be allowed to keep the same relationship with the Euro. By definition, they are now as dependent on Germany and Italy as they are on France. If it's an "African empire" it's now a European one, and Ireland is part of the colonisers.

(I think that poster reads too much xenophobic British media. He should see what they think about Ireland!)

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325357#Comment_122325357

Yes, ultimately France can attempt to influence + pressure these countries and perhaps wishes them to keep currencies pegged to Euro, but it is no "Empire".

If they have coups/"regime changes" and new dispensations prefer to grow ties with Russia, tell any French troops previous govt. invited to gtfo and bring in loads of Putin's charming mercs instead, they are free to do so and France (or any other EU country) is not exactly going to send in the gunboats to try and stop them!

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325297#Comment_122325297

Yeah but the left are so desperate to cling to power they'd prefer to form an ineffective and directionless government than to see what the other side can do. It's almost undemocratic what they are up to to keep out the most popular party. You could kind of see the same happening here until SF blew themselves up.

Europe is going to become like the US. Red and blue and nothing in between.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325385#Comment_122325385

new dispensations prefer to grow ties with Russia, tell any French troops previous govt. invited to gtfo and bring in loads of Putin's charming mercs instead, they are free to do so

I think that's pretty much what happened in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger. And France withdrew its troops despite the previous adminstration sometimes begging them to remain to help them get back into power.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325480#Comment_122325480

Europe is going to become like the US. Red and blue and nothing in between.

Huh? Sounds like you've never looked at what's been happening in French politics over the last thirty years. It was - used to be, past tense - Red and Blue and nothing in between … until the electorate got a taste for shades of the same and other colours.

And yet, having forecast a return to the bipolar past, you also complain that

 the left are so desperate to cling to power they'd prefer to form an ineffective and directionless government than to see what the other side can do.

What "other side" ? Presumably you mean the hard right? And by "the left" do you mean the Extreme Left, the Hard Left, the Left of Centre, or the Left-leaning Others. In any case, none of those (grouped together into three coalitions for this election) are in a position to "cling to power" because they haven't been in power for about a decade.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324980#Comment_122324980

also rigged uranium prices? the Africans reduced to buying from the company store you could say?

Wanderer78

europe further embracing our aging population, shur isnt this gonna be some craic!

Geuze

Does anybody know any good website to get detailed dats on the election results?

I presume that at the second round, the RN will not do as well?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325790#Comment_122325790

They will still do as well percentage wise, they might even increase their vote, but the big issue for them is that 33-40% in a two horse race isnt going to be enough. There's lots of question.marks over whether the anti RN bloc will actually follow through in the ballot boxes though.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324595#Comment_122324595

This deserves a separate thread, but a quick read about Francafrique would give some insight into France’s neocolonial attitude to their former African colonies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7afrique

Helping to crown “Emperor Bokassa” would be an extreme example.

Going back to the French election Hillary Clinton had some interesting things to say on European mainstream politics needed to deal with the immigration issue, or else cede power to populists: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

Soc_Alt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325480#Comment_122325480

I saw that. It will just push more people to swing more to the right.

I also don't believe voters in Europe support "Far Right" agendas.

The issue currently is that there are no incremental Right leaning political parties.

I know that is massively lacking in Ireland.

I would vote for A right leaning party but not a far right party.

I'm Pro EU as I support free movement of EU citizens which is 1 of 4 freedoms.

I do not support free movement of non EU citizens which is probably the biggest issue in the EU currently which is swept under the carpet at local and European level.

The French want their identity and culture preserved and respected which has been completely erodedby the left.

The same is seem all over the EU.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326391#Comment_122326391

macron is largely centrist, which would have been the more traditional leaning of European politics, we re now moving much more to the right, and im sure it ll be a barrel of laughs, with increasing likelihood of stagnation across the eu, amongst other things…..

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326412#Comment_122326412

But a very large left wing / hard left vote in France too - their politics are quite unusual for one of the major European powers.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325958#Comment_122325958

It's not a two-horse race, though. In my constituency, there are three horses in the second round - Coalition of the Left, Coaltion of the Right and Hard Right. The Centrists have their horse running in some constituencies too.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326601#Comment_122326601

Already 167 candidates have dropped out, and more are expected to do the same, to ensure its a head to head battle. It might not happen in every constituency though.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326391#Comment_122326391

Arguably, the unruly nature of elections in Europe and the US is down to the right-liberal parties failing to perform their vital function of fooling a large bloc of the voters into supporting them rather than a party that would actually represent them. Having tricked the voters, the right-liberal party then doubles down on neoliberalism - economic and social/cultural - which the voters do not want. Look at the Tories in the UK: Brexit was very clearly motivated by a rejection of mass migration. The Tories tricked those voters in the next GE, and then doubled down on even more mass migration!

The capability of the right-liberals to perform their job in the partnership seems to be breaking down recently, across US and Europe. The direction of travel on neo-liberalism is so extreme over the past 15 years makes it harder and harder for the right-liberal party to keep up with what's politically acceptable (for example in 2008, Obama opposed same-sex marriage - that's completely unacceptable just a few years later), while still tricking voters. The impact of mass migration is increasingly hard to hide from voters. Also the constant battering right-liberal parties, and right leaning voters, take in the media must make it very hard to recruit competent, young operators to do the job. Why would someone competent associate themselves with groups or parties whose job is to represent the worst people in society?

That said, as already pointed out by another poster not too long ago people were running around clawing their eyes out in terror at the prospect of the "far right" in Italy and Trump in the US. Nothing happened. Indeed, its possible that over time these "far-right" groups will end up taking on the role of right-liberal parties they're displacing.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326621#Comment_122326621

Sure, but it's not always candidates from the same party that are dropping out, and as well as the 300-odd three-horse races, there are five constituencies with four candidates in the run-off.

So you have the beginnings of a coalition between Left-ish and Right-ish against the Hard Right. Which is not that dissimilar to the last three presidential elections.

silverharp

The Americans should really teach the French Electronic voting……..

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326705#Comment_122326705

I know, it would be pointless have the same candidates from the same parties dropping out. The proposed plan is that if a candidate from the Popular Front came second, the candidate from the Ensemble Alliance would drop out and vice-aversa.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325202#Comment_122325202

Their currency is too unstable for anyone else the accept in trade. The French used that to their own advantage and now that’s backfired. There’s not much alternative though and the governments are notoriously corrupt.