The decline of SF?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509457#Comment_122509457

The problem is that SF continue to display a lack of leadership on these issues. Only yesterday, senior party spokespersons were refusing to say that they supported the housing of immigrants in Thornton Hall. The crisis of leadership in SF is real, unfortunately for them, it is only one of the major problems. Without decent leadership at the top, they won't be able to address the hordes of conspiracy theorists in their ranks.

Even their supporters on here dream up crazy CTs about the government.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509457#Comment_122509457

Progressive to me means having the ability to see what you said or did was wrong and apologising for it and altering your behaviour.
Regressive is sticking with beliefs that have been debunked and policy that is evidently wrong and making things worse - immigration, housing and health being the headline repressiveness of the current government.

I have never claimed any party in Ireland is a perfect model and I have voted for most of them.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509515#Comment_122509515

Ok so, why are right wing beliefs stronger in SF voters compared to all the other main parties? My theory is the influence of a significant cohort within the party that believes in various conspiracy theories such as anti vax, Jews using a lazor from space behind 9/11, the Brits microwaved Catholics, Great replacement theory etc.

Bobson Dugnutt

Said it before, SF’s incredibly negative and confrontational social media strategy from 2010 to 2018 is coming back to haunt them. Those Facebook groups they created or were behind, the Shinnerbot phenomenon, the failed State narrative, Doherty literally screaming in the Dáil. Whipped a lot of people into a frenzy, and they’ve now gone rogue on SF.

Not sure there’s the vision or capability within SF to try and fix that though. It certainly won’t happen while Adam’s, Kelly, Murphy (Conor, not Slab) and the other auld men behind the wire sorts are still in charge.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509556#Comment_122509556

I think those who believe those things are floating voters, willing to switch to differing parties if it suits. The rise in support for Independents and FF and FG as they harden stances shows that.
Not worth chasing tbh.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509767#Comment_122509767

Hopefully they stop chasing that vote soon but Browne (space lazors) is going for election again. Stanley , Daly and Conway Walsh too i assume.

Still a lot of people in SF that would appeal to that cohort.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509814#Comment_122509814

It's 'a lot' now, not 'plenty' anymore.
All very vague really.
And I still don't see the party leadership or policy 'chasing that vote'.

xxyyzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509613#Comment_122509613

Yes, and it went on far longer than 2018. On Reddit they made r/Ireland unusable, any discussion of SF whatsoever would be downvoted into oblivion within minutes if it was deemed negative. This was going on up until last year, it seems to have eased off this year. I guess it wasn't a good look for the party when some absolute apes were throwing their weight around in discussions most of whom had some romanticised notion of the troubles and were born in the noughties.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509831#Comment_122509831

The succeeded in harvesting the CT votes hence their supporters being the biggest believers in that sort of nonsense. They got the Gemma cohort votes by recruiting Browne, Holohan and Violet into the ranks and people like Pa Daly supporting her presendential push. I'd imagine the leadership had some say on who was allowed run for the party and who Pa Daly could publicly support.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510491#Comment_122510491

They are still at it, voting for Paddy Holohan for Deputy Mayor of South Dublin, sitting on the ditch over the use of Thornton Hall until they see which way the wind is blowing, the same in Dundrum, where they are using "consultation" as the reason to ensure that refugees are not looked after.

It will be interesting to see the next opinion poll.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510491#Comment_122510491

Holohan who was kicked out, Browne who apologised and Violet who lasted a wet week in her position?

Yeh, great 'harvesting'.

A small, secret group of people is responsible for making all major decisions in world politics

25% of FF and 23% of FG voters believe the above statement.

What about this one?

Viruses and/or diseases have been deliberately disseminated to infect certain populations

15% of FF and 11% of FG believe that one.

Tell me this, how did FG and FF 'harvest' these supporters who believe these conspiracy theories?
People in glasshouses…etc etc.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510679#Comment_122510679

The point that was made was that SF attracts far more of the people who believe such rubbish than any other party, because SF plays up to that agenda. The facts back up that opinion. Your response is deflective nonsense and doesn't in any meaningful way refute the point made. It would get zero points in a primary school debating competition.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510679#Comment_122510679

What are the numbers for SF for the same questions ?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510698#Comment_122510698

38% for Q1 and 25% for Q2.

You avoiding the question?
How did FG and FF 'harvest' and keep happy their percentages of conspiracy believers?

Had you looked with an unjaundiced eye you would see that survey shows they all have a percentage who believe this stuff.

Therefore the only time it becomes a major problem is when it influences party policy or actions and I don't see that happening in any of the major parties.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510695#Comment_122510695

So if support for these theories are played up to, how did FF and FG attract so many?

47% of Greens according to the same survey believe:

The government keeps many important secrets from the public

51% of FG and 46% of FF believe the same and those 3 are the government

22% of greens believe the following:

There are ongoing, hidden efforts to marginalise, control, or destroy certain groups of people through the use of political policies

pureza

This thread is dredging the barrel for ansty tat titting again.

When the elections called SF will solidify and grow in the polls and will certainly improve on 2020.

Voters will do different things in polling booths than what they were asked about 6 months earlier when confused and riled up by racists,it concentrates minds.

SF will reel in the lapsed shinners.

That is my opinion on what will happen.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510825#Comment_122510825

So 38 v 25 v 23 and 25 v 15 v 11.

That's a significant difference in both questions for SF. And there isn't much of a difference between FG/FF.

What's your explanation for SF attracting more of the CT vote considering you don't believe they chased it?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510889#Comment_122510889

There are questions for all obviously, if you are going to start asking questions.

I have and my answer is, if these theories begin to manifest themselves in policy then it is time to worry. Across all parties I would imagine they are beliefs held mostly by the young and that would explain why it is higher in SF, given they attract a younger vote during the period.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.clare.fm/news/wrc-finds-clare-td-pay-e11500-former-employee-unfair-dismissal/

Sweet suffering mother of Jesus, where did they pick this yoke up from at the last election? How she got chosen over the other potential candidate is astonishing. They really elected some total gobdaws and galloots in the last election. Mad stuff. Hopefully Ferris and the lads are taking a bit more interest in the background of their candidates for the upcoming election.
You wouldn’t let a lot of them herd bullocks from one field to another.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510940#Comment_122510940

No, the figures show that there is a baseline number across all parties, but that one party - SF - stands alone and different from the others. The questions are for SF.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511264#Comment_122511264

What questions?
And why would you not ask them of a party that has 51% of it's supporters giving the same answer in one instance?
Or 47% in the case of the party you vote for?

I know why only one party is answerable, but you'll never admit to it.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510864#Comment_122510864

It's your opinion, that's fine. Have you any basis for that opinion or hunch?

Bobson Dugnutt

Anecdotal of course, but back in the 2000’s when SF had only that pompous bald lad from Monaghan as a TD, Adams was threatening that they hadn’t gone away you know, and poor young Paul Quinn was being tortured to death in a shed for falling out with the local Provo crime families then I’d have known a few of the local SF lads from my town.

Mostly harmless sorts; but very much the type of men who were open to conspiracy theories and being influenced online. Men of below average intelligence. Barstoolers. The sort of lads who hung around pool tables in pubs on a Tuesday night.

Obviously their appeal has grown since then, but you wouldn’t be worrying the Mensa Application Committee with them.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511296#Comment_122511296

Ever meet any of the 'bald lads' colleagues on the council locally? Hughie 'Gimme loads of sterling' and your man that fancied himself with a broken glass? You'll find all sorts in political parties would be my anecdotal experience.

Finty Lemon

Boris Johnson contributed handsomely to the SF surge in 2020. His election, not 70 days prior to the Irish election, served to put an anti Brit sentiment in the minds of a lot of Irish people. That, aligned with some frustration with the incumbent govt, came out in the polls.

The corollary is that Keir Starmers election is very bad news for SF

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511346#Comment_122511346

Charlie Flanagan was their biggest vote getter.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511312#Comment_122511312

Whataboutery deflection is boring. It is your default response to everything said about Sinn Fein.

The truth is that SF has more criminals, more conspiracy theorists, more eejits than any other political party in the country. If Walz was here he would call the likes of Adams weird.

FrancieBrady

I compare parties before I vote for them. Isn’t what you and the survey are doing ‘comparing’?
Crimnals? The major parties all had their share.

Conspiracy theorists, they all have their share particularly among their younger support. And at the time of the survey SF had the majority of the you g’s support.

Eejits? Well now I think they all certainly have a share of them too.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508783#Comment_122508783

Just on Gemma, there was only one council voted to nominate her for president (Laois CC), they voted on her not two weeks (Sept 23rd) after her infamous statements regarding Veronica Guerin (happened Sept 6th) so her conspiracys and falsehoods were already well established

13 Laois county councillors abstained, those who voted that Gemma was a suitable nominee were Caroline Dwane Stanley (SF), Aidan Mullins (SF ), Ben Brennan (IND) and Paschal McEvoy (FF)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520669#Comment_122520669

The 'abstentions' tells you all you need to know. Support for Gemma withdrew gradually as it became apparent how far she was going on the conspiracy trail. She still had some currency in journalism at that time. Her investigative journalism blew the lid of abuse in a Dublin Rugby school in 2018 for instance. Not denying it disappeared fairly quickly from that time on but her credibility didn't disappear overnight.