EU to impose multibillion-euro tariffs on Chinese electric cars (thread bans see post #1)

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262834#Comment_122262834

Affordable? Depends on what unit of measure you are using to do the costing. Solar panels, wind turbine components and EV's are all made cheaper in China than almost anywhere else, and a good part of that is because their energy is cheap and abundant with 70% of it coming from coal. If your unit of measure for this 'affordability' includes CO2, they mightn't be as much of a climate bargain as you assume:

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265533#Comment_122265533

They're up at about 60% renewable or nuclear nowadays and less than 40% coal. Still too much coal to be fair though

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/013124-coal-still-accounted-for-nearly-60-of-chinas-electricity-supply-in-2023-cec#:~:text=China's%20cross%2Dprovincial%20power%20transmission,contributed%20by%20relatively%20stable%20hydropower.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270311#Comment_122270311

That's doesn't appear to be what is stated in your link:

Coal still accounted for nearly 60% of China's electricity supply in 2023

If you meant capacity:

China's total power generation capacity reached 2,920 GW in 2023, in which coal's share dropped to 39.9%, while the share of non-fossil fuels, namely nuclear and renewables, reached 53.9%

Then that's a different thing and since renewables have such terrible capacity factors, it doesn't mean much.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270707#Comment_122270707

Ah yes I see the mistake I made there

Woodie40

The Chinese produce cheap poorly built **** so they should be charging under 10 K for them in the first place.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276223#Comment_122276223

Completely agree. Many Audi parts are made in China yet they still charge Ze German premium for them 😳

BMW use China parts, infact they used parts from a company banned by the US due to slave labour along with Land Rover, and Jaguar.

Like the movie Armageddon, American space ship, Russian space ship…..all made in China!

To have this holier than thou complex is laughable when you own cars with Chinese parts is very hypocritical.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276251#Comment_122276251

German quality isn't as good as it used to be. 2 and 4 least reliable according to ..

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/10-least-reliable-brands-consumer-reports/70983/

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276223#Comment_122276223

If you're only buying 100% non-Chinese stuff then you're not buying much at all.

Padre_Pio

I don't like these comparisons.

1. They don't take population into account. Comparing a population of 1.3 billion with one of 0.3billion is not a fair comparison
2. They don't take development into account. India is largely under-developed. Half of them don't have a toilet in their house.
3. They don't take industrial output into account. China is the workshop of the world, of course their emissions are higher. Other countries are carbon offsetting to China.
4. They don't take other forms of energy into consideration. Oooh China bad! Look at the graph. What about the US oil/nuclear power which is just as harmful in other ways?

I could just as easily throw up a similar graph of annual CO2 from turf with Ireland in the top spot.

We're already third in the EU for CO2 emissions per capita.

Woodie40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276280#Comment_122276280

I said it is cheap **** so should be reflected in the price. Bargain basement brands should have bargain based prices. Yellow pack brands have a place but should be cheaply priced. Same as bargain based retailers like Aldi and Lidl.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276310#Comment_122276310

Every country makes good stuff and sh*t stuff. Plenty of top quality coming from China and plenty of sh*t coming from europe/ US and others.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276276#Comment_122276276

Ohh I agree. It just seems certain posters can be very hypocritical when slagging off Chinese cars from their German built Audi made with Chinese parts 😂

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276304#Comment_122276304

China has factories that supply the world. Each country should take their share of Chinas emissions, as they should do for our data centres which supply Europe

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276377#Comment_122276377

"German assembled" cars.

Remember that the "Made in.. " applies to the process that adds the most value, which is nearly always assembly.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276251#Comment_122276251

The Chinese will make the part to spec. It's up to the purchaser to define the quality. If Chinese parts are junk it's because the OEM didn't want to pay for quality, not because they can't do it.

China has a problem as it has a massive oversupply of EVs and EV manufacturing capacity and it's slowing domestic economy is proving to be saturated.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279805#Comment_122279805

Perhaps they don't want the process to be top quality and give away too much information?

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276251#Comment_122276251

"Russian components..... American components......All made in Taiwan!" was the quote, but the sentiment remains

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281068#Comment_122281068

Yeah seen that. 😂

I wanted to make it my own and not plagiarize my post 👀👀

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265533#Comment_122265533

Sure the E.U know antropogenic climate change is BS !

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276304#Comment_122276304

Well, if you believe Co2 is causing the climate to warm then Nuclear is a true 0 emission energy source that is illegal in Ireland, don't knock it, newer Nuclear tech is vastly better than the mostly much older reactors we have today but there is huge investments in Nuclear and there will be a Nuclear renaissance all over the planet, think terrapower just being one example. These reactors would suit Ireland and can be made in 1 Mw to 1 GW capacities.

Nuclear has the potential to meet most if not all our energy needs without wind and solar being true 0 emissions these new reactors are so efficient they produce 1% of the waste or less compared to current reactors and can burn up existing waste.

With Nuclear you can produce Hydrogen which can be burned in ICE or used to create synthetic fuels, Scientists have found a way to extract Co2 from the sea that is 150 times or more efficient than extracting Co2 from the Air and the by-product is hydrogen which can be used to make synthetic fuels. Battery production is not environmentally friendly and it has a carbon footprint which makes synthetic fuels much more attractive.

Once scaled up Co2 extraction from seawater will have the potential to suck billions of tonnes of Co2 from the sea per year.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253318#Comment_122253318

Electric cars won't save the planet and you know it, people here just want electric cars, big difference. They want the latest tech.

The only thing that will save the planet and society is to get rid of politicians.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254484#Comment_122254484

«snip: do not discuss moderation on thread»

You can't say anything negative about electric cars in the EV section of boards, didn't anyone tell you ?

It's not just the Co2 from lithium and cobalt mining it's the amount of fresh water used for lithium extraction in the likes of Chile, the huge quantities of sulphuric acid needed and the fact local ground water is being contaminated, this is before we get to cobalt and the environmental catastrophises in Chinese mining and production , but don't mention this in the EV section of boards.ie they like the illusion that electric cars are the answer to all out problems lol.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281231#Comment_122281231

Yep, my comment was more that most US nuclear plants were built before the 1980s and aren't environmental friendly.

Padre_Pio

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281250#Comment_122281250

I suppose at the end of this process you have a battery with potentially decades of usefulness.

With oil extraction the end result is smoke.

positron

So, is it fair to say that, just like Model 3 prices, MG, Polestar etc will all have to jack up their prices in a few weeks?

And VW and other brands that produce in Europe (like Tesla Model Y etc), may also increase prices due to reduced competition + to cover the loses due to whatever new tariffs they will face in selling in China?

Koreans and Japanese would probably increase a little bit too - just because everyone else is?

Everyone gains - except us, potential buyers?

liamog

Mod Note: There's a thread for discussing the environmental impact of EVs, use it do not post off topic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252347/evs-are-worse-for-the-environment-and-other-ev-related-myths

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281409#Comment_122281409

Yep. The same thing that always happens when government intervention limits competition.

redlead

I wonder what Tesla plan on doing with cars ordered a few months ago but delivered post July 3rd. Looking at the contract it says that a final invoice gets issued subject to changes in tax etc but this tax is a tax on the import and not a tax on the sale. Would also seem unfair to penalise a customer just because they are late delivering a vehicle. Their website says order now for delivery in June to avoid the increase in price but nobody that orders a M3 now is going to get it in June.

liamog

The structure of the tariff means that manufacturers will need to lodge a guarantee for each car sold from July 4th. The money will only be collected when a definitive duty is imposed. Tesla are listed as a co-operating company so are subject to the 21% but the commission press release says they may be given their own rate by the definitive stage. If the individualised rate is lower than 21% they'll get money back from customs. I wonder if they'll refund that to any customers hit by the extra duty.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285216#Comment_122285216

Do not post in this thread again.