EU to impose multibillion-euro tariffs on Chinese electric cars (thread bans see post #1)

positron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315771#Comment_122315771

Sounds like exactly what someone who has never lived or worked outside of "the west" would say.

China is excelling in certain areas - and that's just a fact. Blocking the good things that's coming out of China for the sake of protectionist ideals - is alright fair enough your choice etc, but it might hurt you more than it may hurt China, that's all.

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315738#Comment_122315738

Unlikely that none of the pc parts have a Chinese component and assuming you're talking about Samsung, they only recently moved their manufacture away from China due to of all things, high labour costs…

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316558#Comment_122316558

Speaking of which;

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/china-issues-rare-earth-regulations-further-protect-domestic-supply-2024-06-29/

China has unveiled a list of rare earth regulations aimed at protecting supplies in the name of national security, laying out rules on the mining, smelting and trade in the critical materials used to make products from magnets in electric vehicles to consumer electronics.

Timing is unlikely to be coincidental.

Red Silurian

I suppose it all boils down to if you want China to excel at battery production or the Arabs to continue at oil production, destroying the environment with every liter produced and using the money to buy world cup hosting rights etc etc

liamog

Always funny that people have started worrying about rare earth materials now that they're being used in electric motors for EVs. Somehow, they don't have the same worries when they're used in catalytic convertors or as catalysts in the refining of petrol and diesel.

Some of the major end uses for rare earth elements include use in automotive catalytic converters,
fluid cracking catalysts in petroleum refining, phosphors in color television and flat panel
displays (cell phones, portable DVDs, and laptops), permanent magnets and rechargeable
batteries for hybrid and electric vehicles, and generators for wind turbines, and numerous medical
devices. There are important defense applications, such as jet fighter engines, missile guidance
systems, antimissile defense, and space-based satellites and communication systems.

https://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/pdf/R41347.pdf

John arse

When do the tariffs kick in,is it tomorrow July 1st or July 4 th(think I read that somewhere?).

MakersMark

Funny how when Trump talks about tariffs on Chinese goods he's an isolationist, but when Europe bows to the will of the German VAG group, to the massive detriment of millions of Europen citizens, it's OK???

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323210#Comment_122323210

The German automakers including VAG have pushed back more against these measures than any other European companies. They have far more to lose due to direct tariffs on their Chinese made cars that are imported to Europe and have more exposure to reciprocal measures than other EU automakers.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323210#Comment_122323210

You think that millions of jobs should be put at risk from heavily subsidised competition?

MakersMark

No, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of Eu tarriffs on China being good, while US tariffs are bad for some reason.

From my point of view, I have no wish to spend an extra 10k to keep Peugot or Audi workers turning out overpriced cars.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323391#Comment_122323391

Who exactly is being a hypocrite here? Has the EU Commission been calling Trump an isolationist? Or maybe UvdL? or maybe an EU parliament member like Mick Wallace?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323391#Comment_122323391

Its clear you don't understand the interrelationship between those European based manufacturing jobs and this Country's, nay your own, prosperity.

It is Europe's interest for many and increasing reasons, to reduce our dependence on distant imports and to back our own manufacturing, energy generation, technologies and natural resources exploitation.

No country, or no block of countries, should ever be allowed to hold Europe's economic fate by the bollix again, whether that is in gas supply, or microchips, or telecoms software, or agricultural produce, or cars.

It is very likely that we will find ourselves betwixt and between an isolationist US and an increasingly belligerent China, with BRICS allied to them. On that basis, fortress Europe needs to be real and it needs to be ready.

halkar

So it's ok to buy usb cables from China but not the cars. What was Europe thinking last 30-40 years when they were outsourcing most of manufacturing to China, textile to Bangladesh and Pakistan, IT to India? What will Europe be ready for taxing EVs from China? Most Chinese government's subsidies to EV makers was for domestic use to reduce their own carbon footprint. After all most EU governments are subsidising EVs at the forecourts one way other. In a different way they subsidy their own car makers too in the expense of buyers since most car makers increase their prices once some form of subsidies in place.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323582#Comment_122323582

Have you any links to these car manufacturer subsidies?

halkar

Weren't vrt relief, free electricity, free tolls, free parking, low car tax subsidies too which kept EV prices high for many years? What is the difference between directly (China) or indirectly (EU) subsidising car industry? To me Chinese government's directly subsidising EV makers to innovate and improve their car manufacturing has worked while EU governments subsidies of tax relief only inflated price of cars for their greedy manufacturers. While EU car makers were too busy how to cheat on diesel emissions China was busy how to make better and cheaper EVs for masses. Make no mistake 40k VW would be 60k if it was 100% EU made without Chinese parts.

halkar

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/21/1068880/how-did-china-dominate-electric-cars-policy/

Here is a good read about what happened in China last 20 years which should have also been done in EU if they really cared about green technologies and environment rather than worrying about how to tax and screw the public.

NIMAN

Is there a date when Chinese EVs are going to be 30% dearer to buy?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324312#Comment_122324312

Yes.
Do we know it?

No!

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324312#Comment_122324312

It's far from a done deal, China isn't taking it lying down they'll hit meat exports from Europe and one of the funniest things they've come up with is giving a levies break on Europen big engined cars, so China will take our BMW V8's at a discount and give us cheap BYD's in return.

Yay we're saving the planet again.

MojoMaker

Model 3 still 38k this morning. How they haven't been swamped with orders I don't know.

Can't think of a better value new car sold in Ireland at the moment - EV or ICE.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324936#Comment_122324936

In fairness they have been. So many waiting for collection but Tesla delivery process is stupid. They need a bigger supply but RHD is in short supply unfortunately.

redlead

They seem to just get random cars in and look to match them with orders. Its very frustrating not having any idea of when you'll actually get a car as the estimate times on the app seem to be mostly BS.

slave1

That's exactly what they do, fill a ship with cars then match to order, if you pick an exotic mix of interior and colour with tow hitch etc you'll be waiting.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325328#Comment_122325328

Similar to BYD. Some guys are still waiting on their seals because they picked one of the paid paint options.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324296#Comment_122324296

All of the subsidies you mention are available to incentivise the purchase of a car that is made in Germany, Spain, Slovakia, South Korea or China. The Chinese production subsidies are only available to incentivise the purchase of a car that is built in the particular factory that received the subsidy.

The EU isn't anti subsidy, for reason's relating to internal market competition it's anti subsidy at the point of production instead of the point of sale.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325328#Comment_122325328

Yes I can confirm this, somebody I know personally had an 8 week wait from order to collection, white RWD with nothing else added.

Sometimes they get cars on the ship not linked to an order and these go into the "inventory" section so watch for that too. These cars can be as low as 2 to 3 days from order to collection

With regards to the date of implementation it was widely believed to be the 4th of July but wouldn't affect existing customer orders. It's also been rumoured that the EU and Chinese authorities are in high level discussions about the tariffs because nobody on either side of the argument wants a trade war.

The claim is that China is selling cars in the EU below production costs (termed "dumping") but in actuality the cars are about double the price here so it's questionable if they can prove it

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326243#Comment_122326243

I assume by 'here' you mean Ireland. The BYD Seal is 46,990 in France and Spain and 5k cheaper in Italy. The car is about 23k in China, but there are all sorts of claims about the level of quality the domestic cars are built to. Some suggestions that the body panels are not galvanised nor do they have the same level of safety. Very hard to establish what the actual price should be or how much subsidy is applied.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326305#Comment_122326305

By "here" I mean Europe, which your point proves. I would take any such claims with a pinch of salt. The Chinese market needs a charge port but I'd be surprised if the cars were much different after that

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326305#Comment_122326305

it’s €46,0dd here too.

Exiled Rebel

Tariffs are being applied from tomorrow.