FF/FGs "celebrity" election candidates.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258763#Comment_122258763

You realise there are also lots of people who have eh "guts" and an education. As timmyntc pointed out it takes a lot more then "guts" to be a politican. Guts is the sort of ill defined term that I have noticed people whos policies are "common sense" like to throw about.

If you think Carberry is a great representive and not just a big name parachuted in. Make a proper case for it. Post examples of her working and representing her community. Give examples she has used her "guts" to stand up to the racing industry or acted against her own best intrests for the sake of her constituents.

Right now all I have getting off her are rural Maria Walsh vibes. With horses instead of tamagotchis.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258646#Comment_122258646

What party were these canvassers from?

This thread is just more sour grapes from SF supporters. If the candidates weren't strong enough to be elected then they wouldn't have been elected, claiming they were only elected because of celebrity is another Mary Lou like swipe at the electorate for being thick.

If the SF candidates didn't get elected then that's solely their issue, they selected candidates in MNW based on 'the cause' and got their answer that people in the South don't care about that.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260376#Comment_122260376

Well, she was a parachutist, and a celebrity, and probably selected for name recognition. I am not defending that, but she is obviously a fighter. However, we will see if she does actually perform as an MEP.

Other candidates are selected for name recognition, such as Biffo's brother, Mullooly, Billy Kelleher, plus a few others.

You need name recognition in such a huge geographical area. There should have used four constituencies - 3, 3, 4, and 4. THat would have cut a chunk off the length of the balance sheet, and made the loonies think twice at trying to get elected in a three seater.

Notmything

Would you be making the same complaint/whine if they ran as independents and not as members of a party?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260590#Comment_122260590

Does it matter which party they were from? Lets actually answer the question I asked and forget about the Whataboutism.

They were FF. I have no love for SF or sour grapes. I would just prefer that qualified candiates are sent to Europe and not someone who has a bit of a profile. Running candiates because they are a sports person or on TV. Is a slippery slope I would rather no go down.

Instead of talking about Mary Lou and SF, or FF. Tell me what has Carberry done for community before being selected. She active in her community. Has she helped out with community groups in the past (excluding those related to horse racing). None of her canvassers came to my door. Sell her to me. Explain why she was an amazing candiate. Why she will be a fantastic MEP.

She is elected now, and is representing me in Europe. I really want her to be a success. Tell me why she will be. Tell me how she is genuinly invested in representing me in Europe and she isn't just there for kicks. Or the lack of anything better to do.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261224#Comment_122261224

If she ran an Independent, I would still be asking the same questions. More so, if she ran as an independant. I would have written her whole campain as some sort of ego thing.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261140#Comment_122261140

She is in there now. I really hope she will be an amazing MEP.

I do agree about the constituancy. It is far to large. Dublin should be extended up the east coast. Then the rest of the constituancy sub divided. Very hard for anyone to mount a succesfull campain without a party behind you. I admine how Ming is able to do it.

Sam Russell

Perhaps we should limit candidates for MEP to former or current TDs or Senators.

Perhaps include those who stood as TDs who got at least 50% of a quota, and perhaps LA councillors. (But not too sure that last one would be a good idea.) Doing so would eliminate the loons and wingnuts that get eliminated in quick order.

Not sure if restricting candidates would be a good idea, but worth thinking about. Is it democratic, or anti-democratic?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261838#Comment_122261838

Why? It's definitely anti-democratic and I'm not sure what problem it is solving. You could potentially somewhat increase the barrier to being listed on the ballot (more signatures or something) but it is a fundamentally different role from a TD.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261470#Comment_122261470

I think this is as much, if not moreso, a question for the 70k+ people who voted for her though

breezy1985

We live in a country where some vote for people because their father had the job before them so celebrity candidates are not that controversial in comparison.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355854/ff-fgs-celebrity-election-candidates

Do you have any actual experience of local party (cumann) work, any experience of selecting a candidate, anything at all beyond repeating what a reporter said to backup your post????

And while you are at it you could explain why you think celeberaties should not be entitled to stand for election like everyone else….

Or is this more likely one of the usual excuses rolled out when your preferred candidates did not make the grade….

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261473#Comment_122261473

What about everyone else who runs for office with no previous experience. Are they all on ego trips?

I hope she's a success. And fair play to anyone who decides to step up whether a "celebrity" or not.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262292#Comment_122262292

Is it, according to some posters here she is more then capable for the office. I am asking them, aside from having "guts" and name recognition what she is bringing to the table. Do you know?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262374#Comment_122262374

Honestly. Yeah, most of them are.

If you have no experience working in your community. As a community activist or in some other capacity. Why else are you running. It is a lot easier to directly help your comminity as local organiser. Then in the Dail.

I give Sean Gallagher as an example. Some might argue that RTE scuppered his chances in 2011, and that he should of won. He ran again in 2018, what did he doing between elections in terms of helping the community or making things better for society. I would argue nothing. The whole thing was an ill guided ego trip.

Same with Peter Casey and Dana. Ego trips.

There is a lot of Whataboutism in this thread. No one has attempted to make any sort of good faith argument for Carberry as a cansiate and did she actually finish school?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262403#Comment_122262403

Clearly you just have something against her for whatever reason, slyly introducing the suggestion that she didn't do her LC before upping the ante.

As suggested, have your truck with the electorate who actually voted her in rather than engaging in a personal tirade which reflects more on you than her.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262430#Comment_122262430

So now instead of Whataboutism. You are throwing an ad hominem attack and the Bandwagon Fallacy at me. Do you have a list of logical falicies that you are working through?

Are you going go tell me next that you are "just asking" questions and that I should go and do my own research?

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262416#Comment_122262416

Genuinely, does it matter if she didn't sit her leaving cert or whatever?

It hasn't held her back in her career seemingly.

gormdubhgorm

If those "celebrity" politicians align with party polices/culture and are capable individuals I do not see an issue with it. Because if they do not do the work/make mistakes they will be found out.

I remember in the 2007 GE Former Dublin Gaelic Football Keeper John O'Leary ran for FF, along with Graham Geraghty FG also a former Gaelic Footballer, from Meath.

he two lads both had a debate on a political programme they were very nervous and both were inept in front of the cameras. Clueless on policy etc. Not surprisingly both former GAA stars did not get elected.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263062#Comment_122263062

TBH her career is pretty much just piloting a horse. No shade on that. But being good at that does not translate to being a good politican.

It does matter.

• If she did complete her leaving cert.. It means the FF canvassers were lying and both FF, the FF candiate and Ms Carberry need to be made aware of it.
• If she didn't complete her leaving cert. I would question if she is really the best candiate that FG could put forward. A lot of valuable things are taught at leaving cert level. The two most relevant would be critical thinking skills and a second language. Both are invaulable for a MEP. I am not suggesting that they are a requirement. But not having a leaving cert would suggest to me that there are better candiates.

By the way you are using the "special pleading" fallacie.

Bobson Dugnutt

Only people with a degree from Trinity should be allowed become politicians.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263187#Comment_122263187

No one is saying that.

Sam Russell

Was there not some lad from Cork who was brilliant at hurling and football such that he won five consecutive all Ireland medals - the only player of his day to do so.

He was so popular (a celebrity), he ran for the Dail as a TD and was successful. Celebrity being a great passport to elective success.

Of course, he was a good TD and so good he became Taoiseach in 1966 and even got re-elected as Taoiseach in 1977 . He was a TD from 1948 until 1981.

Sometimes choosing a celebrity is justified.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263395#Comment_122263395

This is the classic false equivalence example.

On one hand you have Jack Lynch. He started out as a civil servant in the circuit court. Became intrested in law after spending time in court. Then went on to study law in UCC through a night course. Then went to Kings Inn, passed the bar and went into private practice. Played some sport on the side. Before finally moving into politics.

Then you have Ms Carberry, who canvassers have claimed left school to train as a jockey. Became a very succesfull jockey and then won a reality series. Before being parachuted into the European elections.

It is not really like for like is it?

HalloweenJack

If it works for them then why not? I think its lazy and cynical but if they get elected, the party gets the seat which is all that matters.

The electorate should be demanding better candidates and should not be enslaved to parties. Ireland is lucky in that you vote for the individual (in principle) instead of the party. A list system gives the electorate a lot less choice in terms of preference. The Irish system is more transparent in that you select the preference of your vote.

If you don't trust a celebrity candidate, even if it's your party, you can vote for others. The problem is voters putting party over other criteria and this is what they get.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263738#Comment_122263738

Celebrity is about name recognition. Jack Lynch was known for his significant sporting achievements, not for his legal practice. He was a TD for 33 years and was a minister for most of the time when FF were in power.

Nina Carberry might be very good - we shall have to see how hard she works, but I do agree, she has shown nothing yet except her skill at horse racing.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263139#Comment_122263139

No idea why you have such fate in the leaving cert.

I don't have it and it hasn't held me back, 2 honours degrees and a masters. Working at a high level.

Tbf she would have done more than pilot a horse.

This looks more like a reflection on you, that she can't possibly do the job she's been elected to because of reasons. Will she be any good?, no idea, but I'm happy to let her face a go at it.

Interesting that the op disappeared but you took up the mantle.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264679#Comment_122264679

Are you suggesting, that my account is a sock puppet account?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355854/ff-fgs-celebrity-election-candidates

Calling them a celebrity is one way of looking at it.

The other way of looking at it is that they are people who have achieved something in another career and are now moving into politics. Do you think it is an easy or handy job to be a jockey? Do you think that any old eejit becomes a GAA President? Do broadcasters have an easy life?

What all of those people have is a solid record of achievement in something other than politics. That should stand to them.

What is interesting is the parties that people of that calibre choose to stand for. People with a solid record of achievement don't stand for People before Profit or Sinn Fein. That is an interesting question for this thread.