Would you agree that "Golden age" of Irish rugby is over?

FrannoFan

No , we are still in the Golden Age

The golden age according to thornley was bod, Darcy, poc etc and yet we built back better.

Biggest threat to rugby would probably be outside political forces messing with the private schools system.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272676#Comment_122272676

No It wouldn't. The sport would evolve and in many ways be far far better if not so dominated at top level by a small number of fee paying schools past pupils

ELM327

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266154#Comment_122266154

It was a different game then. Players playing the full 80 especially up to their early 30s and later if a front row, was the norm. Nowadays rugby is almost a literal game of two halves, where the replacements come on half the team comes off. Lack of depth in the 90's was almost a non issue, in the 00's it started to creep in, in the 10's it became an issue and now it's a game changer on its own merit, talk of tactical 7:2 benches etc.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272676#Comment_122272676

No idea why a thread about golden age has anything to do with private school, do private schools get mentioned on every thread on boards now ? :-)

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272982#Comment_122272982

Only when it's agenda driven

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272565#Comment_122272565

Leinster got to the top of Europe 3 seasons in a row and in terms of consistency since Leo took over have to be the most consistent side in Europe, they might not have the trophies but they are nearly always in the semi/finals. Sarries/La Rochelle and even Toulouse over that period haven't been as consistent.

We just had a hugely successful period of U20 rugby, I remember the U20 games when Ireland would be hammered by France/England because we just couldn't compete with them, now we are winning 6 nations regular and getting to World Cup finals.

Munster/Connacht/Ulster seem to have got youth development in shape with Munster for instance having a great group of young players coming and some already in the team. Connacht have a number in the U20 squad which looks like real gems

Ireland will never be able to be a France or England, we don't have the amount of pro clubs. Leinster can never be a Toulouse and just buy the best young players from other provinces in Ireland like they did when they bought DuPont off Castres.

One thing we are missing in Irish rugby is raw speed, without Hansen this year it was a very slow backline. Even when we get speed like Bala we couldn't get him into the international team because he had had issues in other areas.

sydthebeat

we wont reach our "golden generation" until we win back to back RWCs.

everyone before that are pretenders

Ben Bailey

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273540#Comment_122273540

Nah, It'll have to be (at least) 3 in a row RWCs. Then we'll talk about the 'Platinum generation' 😊

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273005#Comment_122273005

Agree, Leinster have been consistently at the top end, but I don't see that continuing unfortunately. It will be a while before we have another top level out half and I think we need that to get over the line.

We have some good players on the way up, but reaching the heights that Jvdf, jgp, ringrose etc are at and have reached, will be difficult. We need the stars to align to have players injury free and on top form. As the players get older it will be harder to compete with a resurgent England, and France.

Hopefully I am wrong and a full season with a full coaching ticket will bring both Leinster and Ulster on a chunk next season, and the transition of coaches at national level won't impact too much, but IMHO we will have a season or two of rebuilding before reaching a peak, hopefully for the world cup

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275734#Comment_122275734

"top level out half" a phrase fired out lots of times and then people can't actually answer what it is

Ross Byrne has got them to two European final

H Byrne has shown he has great potential but next year is a huge year for him

Predergast behind him looks good

In terms of another Sexton, no I doubt we will have another on of him anytime soon

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275759#Comment_122275759

I don't think Prendergast is behind Harry Byrne anymore…

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275773#Comment_122275773

Didn't say he was or wasn't, was just listing the players

Sorry *behind him was age wise

El Vino

No , we are still in the Golden Age

It's as good as it's ever been, we look back fondly at the Drico era as it was so much better than what came before it. Our top class players like POC, Drico and SOB were close to the best in the world in their position. I think we have more strength and depth now but hardly any best in the world players. Maybe Furlong from a couple of years ago and Dan Sheehan.

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275759#Comment_122275759

Absolutely. Won't be another Irish out half of the level of sexton for a while

For me, top level are players that any club, and most countries would want. if you look at the best international teams and clubs, how many would have taken sexton in a heartbeat, even up to a year or two before retirement ? How many would take RB? RB is solid, mostly dependable, but isn't in the top tier of out halves.

Without doubt RB would be first choice at a lot of clubs in Europe. But most clubs aren't at the level of successive finals and play offs. I think having an out half that is in the discussion for being in the top two or three in Europe is a huge step towards trophies. Not essential, but in the Irish system, without the ability to buy players to fill gaps like others can, and important piece of the puzzle.

Hopefully HB and Prendergast will reach the heights we want them to, and soon.

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275810#Comment_122275810

There may well never be someone of the level of Sexton ever again. It would be a silly bar.

RB is not and never will be a "top level fly half" but he is also clearly not in the Irish picture anymore. We have had literally one year so far of a promising fly half in Crowley and some middling choices behind him and now we are already turning the page to another very promising young flyhalf behind Crowley. We are doing fine.

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275825#Comment_122275825

A silly bar but a good target.

Crowley is doing well, and long may that continue. He has done some clutch things, (spit, semi final drop goal, spit!!) and hopefully will continue to build control, nerves of steel, and game management. Hopefully himself and Prendergast will drive each other to great things.

RB has been dropped and brought back in before.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275810#Comment_122275810

The way ROG talked about Ross im sure if he was available he would take him

Ross Is looked down on in Ireland like many many other 10s that have come and gone

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275865#Comment_122275865

Perhaps it is a timing issue. Whoever came in to replace sexton was always likely going to be looked down on.

theVersatile

Jesus, looks like Bernard has been reading boards.

https://twitter.com/bernardjackman/status/1804770601170563196?t=W6HCIpQCP42jVnPNS3Ayjw&s=19

I wonder if we started a fake transfer rumour would he pick it up...

Former Former Former

The thrust of that article is more that the Ireland players will be wrecked and we should have rested some of them.

Interestingly, he says we’ve failed to find a backup to Cian Healy in 15 seasons of trying, which must come as a surprise to Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne and Andrew Porter.

Shehal

No , we are still in the Golden Age

Wonder would he have written this if Leinster/Munster won the URC yesterday?

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293987#Comment_122293987

Ireland has no depth and even Farrell knows this by he’s team selection at the WC

bilston

No , we are still in the Golden Age

No question that we need to strengthen in a few areas.

We need better back up to Porter at LHP , back row is interesting, on the face of it we have a lot of talent, but there is a rebuild on the horizon at 6 and possibly even 7 and below the surface not as much proven test experience as you'd think.

Scrum Half is a problem, but only because JGP is so good that there is always going to be a drop off to the next guy. This will be a huge two tests for Casey.

Crowley is comfortably out on his own at 10, hopefully Prendergast (or whoever) can emerge to give him competition.

We're generally fine at centre, although Osborne becoming a test quality centre would be timely given the age profile of Aki, McCloskey and to a lesser extent Henshaw.

Our first choice back three is well established, but beneath that there are real issues IMO and this is an area we need to develop one or two players.

I'd love a real game breaking back though.

Those are the issues, we can debate the candidates to step up, but it's a big 12 months for Ireland between SA, the Emerging Ireland Tour, the Autumn Internationals and next summers tour when the Lions are in Australia. The squad and team may look quite different come November 2025. Given all that I wonder if Andy's appointment (hugely deserved as it is) as Lions coach next year may be badly timed in some respects for Ireland.

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297036#Comment_122297036

Given all that I wonder if Andy's appointment (hugely deserved as it is) as Lions coach next year may be badly timed in some respects for Ireland.

That's certainly possible, but you could make the argument that having a new eye for selection and development for a year might bring through players that otherwise would not have made it. Or just freshen things up for everyone for a bit.

I'm on the fence about the whole thing really.

Shehal

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293605#Comment_122293605

I havent read this due to the paywall but I listened to the 9 minutes YouTube clip on the 42 where he talks about these issues and it all just seems very reactionary, I really wont if Leinster/Munster hadn't got knocked out last week would he be saying any of this?

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297477#Comment_122297477

Right, if Leinster had won a few CCs over the last few years it would be a different conversation. They didn't so the conversation revolves around things that need to happen for Irish teams to win competitions. Not directed particularly at you @Shehal, there are often comments like this suggesting that commentators or posters would say different things in response to different facts. I guess I hope they would!

Downlinz

Reasons in favour of the golden age being over:

• Project players have played a huge role in the success of Irish rugby over the past 10 years and it's a recruitment device we can no longer rely on.
• The gulf in squad depth between ourselves and South Africa, New Zealand and France is growing. It appears to be IRFU to concentrate caps on fewer players with fewer central contracts rather than build depth and as such we've seen the likes of Frisch, Kleyn and Ben Healy ignored by the system and leave. A lot of eggs in very few baskets
• Budgets for Munster, Ulster and Connacht have been cut this year. Squad sizes are reducing and quality of players being signed are worse than those leaving.
• The financial gap between the provinces and Top 14 is growing rapidly to a point where a player exodus feels inevitably on the horizon.
• We used to have 3 teams consistently in the quarter finals in Europe, now it's usually only 1.
• We're still hugely reliant on a handful of private schools for most of our elite players. Rugby has failed to spread across demographics in the country.

Reasons to think the next years can be as good or better:

• Our under 20's performances have been consistently excellent and better than at any point in history.
• The IRFU manage the sports financials prudently in a time when so many other unions appear to be heading towards collapse.
• We now have a better league than ever both for competitiveness and revenue.
• Leinster at least are still able to attract some of the best coaches and players.

Overall it's a mixture of signs though I feel Ireland and Leinster have a group of ageing players there that'll need transitioning away from in the next 3 years which may affect results from both but they'll both be serious teams and win silverware for long term, just probably not quite as good as recent levels.

The picture for Munster, Ulster and Connacht is much more bleak.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305868#Comment_122305868

At work and on phone so can't address this in full but think you're wrong on a few of those reasons and saying thwyŕe why golden age is over

I think the gap between some provinces and France is closing. It certainly isn't with leisnter. By their signings, taking into account central contracts etc etc

RuRugby has not in any way failed to spread across demographics across the country. More coming through at pro level across clubs. New areas and people who didn't go to fee schools.

Shehal

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304782#Comment_122304782

I was referring more about this season than the last few seasons tbh. I just found it interesting how this was only brought up by Jackman this week but not the week before when it was looking like we'd have an all Irish URC final.

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305868#Comment_122305868

I really disagree the difference in depth is growing between Ireland and SA, NZ and France.

To a certain extent we've always had a depth disadvantage just by virtue of having materially fewer pro players (especially v France and SA), but I can't see the logic behind the gap growing. SA & NZ also named relatively settled squads for the summer series with relatively little rotation.

Even since the RWC, Jack Crowley, Joe McCarthy and Calvin Nash have proven themselves as really capable players at this level, and hopefully Jamie Osborne might get the chance to do similar this summer.

Our underage production has been excellent in recent years, and we're really competitive at that level now. I think that's a major change versus the c. 2011-2015 period, and should mitigate the impact of no longer relying on project players.

I don't get the argument around the players being signed for the provinces (presumably the NIQs?) being worse than the players they're replacing?

I don't see this doomsday player exodus scenario to the Top14 - players are still very well paid and well looked after here. There will always be a certain amount of it for players at a certain point in their career, but I don't see any real evidence for fears of it happening en masse.