Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

Tenger

To prevent the Aer Lingus thread being de-railed I'm opening this up.

Tomorrow, all posts relating to this ongoing situation will be merged into this thread.

AIRLINE OR AIRLINE STAFF BASHING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

If your post is deleted it's because the Mods decided it was a low value post, trolling or airline bashing.

Posters are going to have different opinions about this unfolding situation. It's a messy situation. We are going to have conflicting views on this. Whether you are EI ground staff, EI passenger, an EI pilot, a friend of a pilot, a potential EI customer.

This thread WILL NOT SOLVE the ongoing situation. That is between the employer, the union and the WRC.

Any confidential info will be deleted without warning.

Jamie2k9

Aer Lingus management and the pilot union have agreed to meet next Tuesday in an effort to seek a pay deal as balloting continues for industrial action at the airline.

In a letter from the airline to pilots at Dublin and Cork on Friday, Aer Lingus has accused the Irish Airline Pilots’ Association (IALPA) of pursuing a strategy of exerting pressure on the company as the key summer season gets underway.

And the airline has warned pilots that the ballot for industrial action will likely see them make the “most critical vote” of their careers at Aer Lingus.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-and-pilot-union-to-meet-next-tuesday-as-strike-threat-looms/a2051608177.html

Prehaps a new low cost branch is on the way, surly that's what they warning is implying.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233393#Comment_122233393

Any strike will be at least 7 days in advance. And the ailrine will re-route/rebook customers.

kevinandrew

Pilots vote in favour of industrial action.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0612/1454255-aer-lingus-ballot/

Looks like neither side is willing to budge, IALPA has rejected Aer Lingus’ request to return to the WRC, and Aer Lingus isn’t willing to increase its offer without productivity changes.

breadmond

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0612/1454255-aer-lingus-ballot/

Fairly unanimous result as expected. I suppose we'll have to see what comes of the last minute talks being held today

zone 1

7 days notice if going on strike

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251872#Comment_122251872

Or not up in the air, as the case may be.

Captain_Crash

And don’t quote me, but if it’s work to rule that can start immediately!?!

Poland2020

Work to rule counts as industrial action - 7 days required

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252153#Comment_122252153

Im not so sure!?! 330 crews are already work to rule and have been since last summer, and there was never a ballot on that. Work to rule is just doing your job to the letter, by the book if you will!

I’m no expert in industrial relations mind.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-claims-unofficial-pilot-action-led-to-cancellations-and-cost-it-2m-last-week/a1993318273.html

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252427#Comment_122252427

As far as I'm aware IALPA up to this point have not directed any pilots to work to rule. If individual pilots don't want to work on their days off, that's their prerogative.

breadmond

Full work to rule would be much harsher than not working on days off, it would be refusing to go into captain's discretion and things like that that would really slow down the operation

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252490#Comment_122252490

They haven't no that’s correct, but I'm essentially asking what’s the difference in pilots who weren't already engaged in such action starting now vs the pilots who have been engaged in it since Sept? (WTR is a great deal more than just working days off tbf) if a pilot decides tomorrow to operate to the absolute letter*, what can the airline do?

*I’m not saying EI crew skip anything regarding the safe operation of any flight, but both flight crew and cabin crew do a great deal of unthanked tasks to ensure the schedule runs smoothly! 99% of which is unseen by the casual passenger.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252817#Comment_122252817

My understanding is that for some time there has been a lack of enthusiasm amongst the pilots to step outside their agreed working conditions. Demonstrates the state of IR in flight ops when they have been doing this without union direction.

I guess the answer is that a directed work to rule would be a lot clearer and more organised in terms of what tasks pilots will and will not perform. For example: entitlements to meal breaks which cannot practically be taken in flight may be taken on turnarounds which would cause delays all over the schedule. Like you say, passengers don't realise that pilots are often shoveling a "meal" into them on the ground in Amsterdam or Heathrow whilst simultaneously getting weather updates, programming the MCDU etc. If you take your legally mandated meal break and don't perform any other tasks it's going to delay the flight.

I'm sure there are many other examples which would have a similar effect.

Gary walsh 32

Aerlingus have asked for 15 days notice to strike action so they must be expecting them to say no to the deal

Trampas

Feels like industrial action will happen. Now it’s what will it look like.

I assume mol is looking on closely to strike with some planes if allowed

kevinandrew

Does Ryanair have the aircraft available? With Boeing’s troubles they’re well behind their previously expected fleet numbers for this summer.

Although I can imagine the temptation of the publicity win would be too much for him to resist. Then again I wonder if Aer Lingus would actually be very willing to use Ryanair aircraft in the event of all out strike, would send a strong message.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255522#Comment_122255522

They've used FR before, plenty of pics on A-N,other👀 known aviation site of Ryanair 737’s at T2.

I’d imagine a lot of utilisation of Privilege Style over the summer.

fael

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255021#Comment_122255021

The cynic in me sees the 15 days and is then reminded of the following: "If you were informed of the cancellation less than 14 days prior to the scheduled departure date, you have a right to compensation."

There is an exemption to this in case of extraordinary circumstances, which is also covered: Situations which are not considered as extraordinary circumstances include:strikes by air carrier staff (internal strike action)
(this is part of the EC261 rules, source on https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm#cancellation )

Sounds like EI management want to cancel the flights without paying the passengers compensation. At least if the pilots give 7 days passengers will be compensated.
Do EI feel sorry for the passengers or for their bottom line only?

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255712#Comment_122255712

Surely they’ll be negotiating every hour to avert the strike. And not just going to cancel their scheduled 15 days in advance.

Unless they’re happy to let the pilots walk off and leave them off…

Maybe there is a bigger plan at play.

Welcome onboard Aer Lingus Malta …

Trampas

Are Aer Lingus flights treated the same as Ryanair that its two single flights than a return flight if just point to point?

shamrocka330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256096#Comment_122256096

Your question is difficult to understand - are you talking from a pilot or passenger perspective?

Trampas

passenger. Let’s say my outbound flight is effected by strike and cancelled. Is my inbound flight gone also? So could I just booked a single flight to my destination

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256375#Comment_122256375

If there is a strike and your outbound is affected, the airline has to offer a rebooking/rerouting to get you to your destination. Inbound flight will be unaffected. (Assuming any potential strike only affects the outbound)

FR738

I’ve got a flight on EI Tuesday week, what are my chances? Unfortunately it’s over seven days away but is within the 15 that EI management requested. I wouldn’t mind but the direct Ryanair alternative is €350!

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251879#Comment_122251879

In Germany strike notice is 48 hours. Goes to show how weak laws protecting workers are in Ireland.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256375#Comment_122256375

If the flights are on different days, it's unlikely both would be affected by strike action, unless you're unfortunate enough that strike action is called on those two dates.

Phen2206

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257069#Comment_122257069

Its difficult to say for sure at this point but I would strongly suspect the pilots would only give minimum notice (i.e. the 7 days), so I wouldn't rely on there being 15 days' notice. If they're in the middle of a spat with the company why would they facilitate; especially if the company's ultimate aim is just to wriggle out of having to cough up for EU compensation for it's passengers. Hopefully for you if they do announce action which might affect your flight, it may initially only be work to rule which might not mean a cancellation at all, maybe just a delay. Hopefully you won't be affected!

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257446#Comment_122257446

Family holiday so getting away is my biggest concern. Hopefully they can sort this out as many families who’ve saved for holidays don’t need this extra stress of will they get away or not.

15 days and eu compensation does make you think what management like when it comes to things

Reputable Rog

it’s clear that Aer Lingus management are trying to provoke a strike. Part of a long play to move Aer Lingus operations to another jurisdiction and blame Irish working conditions

Kilteragh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257122#Comment_122257122

Or how much better our consumer protection laws are…