Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279412#Comment_122279412

close to zero id say - although with multiple flights to Heathrow, I’d say it’s the safest route, even if flights get cancelled, there is more scope to move you into a different flight.

Lockheed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278546#Comment_122278546

Why would the Labour Court call Aer Lingus unrealistic for accepting their own recommendation?

NewApproach

What is the position regarding EU261 compensation for flights which are delayed or cancelled due to the strikes? Does it apply if the flight is cancelled in advance and you are reaccomodated on an alternative service?

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279773#Comment_122279773

You'll get d!ckhead pilots with every airline, just like any other occupation across the land.

Persoanlly, i think they are well within their rights to ask for what they feel they are worth.

BA pilots did the exact same, and IAG resolved the industrial action fairly sharpish. The same will happen here

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279649#Comment_122279649

https://x.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1803169824559845869?s=19

Might be worth a watch. If you end up reaccomodated on an alternative flight you might still be entitled to compensation based upon how long you were delayed.

Trampas

So EI says there’ll be cancellation due to actions. How about saying how many pilots they need to work in a normal work practice but I guess that work only make them look bad on how under staff they are.

Not say it is like for like but like having a team of 10 and between them they do 35 hours on average a week extra without OT because some like it looks great to management than I’m working a few hours extra and he’ll give me a well done Mary or Paddy. Company are delighted that they save paying an extra employee for the same output. I guess EI do something similar here with the number of pilots.

It just seems with what both sides are coming out with than it appears a bit way.

Tenger

MOD POST

Multiple low value posts have been deleted. I've also edited a couple of posts to remove references to deleted posts.

As this goes on the mods will/may delete post without warning and without explanation.

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TheDriver

Im curious about the claim that the negotiating team can't meet because they'd to work. And now EI saying there'll be cancellations but you won't know until the day. Sounds like both sides are giving the cages a good rattling.

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280016#Comment_122280016

they should know what’s cancelled or not. Only thing on the day is if someone doesn’t turn up to work. Are pilots on standby or whatever is called or is that gone also. So if someone calls in sick then it’s tough and I can get a fr flight or ei put me on another one

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280016#Comment_122280016

EI/IALPA team will be drawn from and including line pilots who are actively flying. To attend a meeting they would have been covered by swaps or overtime. As neither is now permitted by IALPA they won’t be able to attend a meeting unless they cancel a flight or flights or they are on rest days.

One side will say is that not proof the union are unwilling to attend and negotiate, union can and would issue a derogation here and organise someone to cover if it was a genuine meeting and not a management stunt.

Other side will say it’s absolute proof that EI don’t have enough pilots to cover their schedule as sold. Currently 22 trips across 4 days are scheduled to be flown on European flights with widebody hire ins over the coming week or so.

TheDriver

I thought swaps and overtime ban was from Wed onwards?

From an IR perspective, it seems a building of catastrophe type talk as expected, I wonder when the interventions will start. Don't want to peak too early or blink before the eleventh hour deals.

NITRO95

This is a genuine question but if AL are such awful employers why do so many pilots want to work for them? Surely anybody going into pilot training and investing 100k+ into starting a career will be aware of AL reputation

Astral Nav

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280048#Comment_122280048

Completely wrong. Pilots give up some leave to create a pool for union reps to be released from flying duties. They can be replaced by reserve pilots. Why are you posting inaccurate information?

Brendan Bendar

Eventually it will boil down to relativity among the IAG group.

Aer Lingus cannot be an outlier amongst BA, IB, and Vueling.

When they will get to that point is another question though.

lintdrummer

This is true, and another bone of contention among pilots because every pilot gives up 2 annual leave days per year to permit ialpa reps to do their Union business, yet it seems to be difficult for the union reps to take these days most of the time. So the pilots are rightfully questioning where are their leave days actually going?

Kiss my Axe

Are you entitled to get a refund now for a state side flight that obviously hasn’t been cancelled yet but the trip is of significant importance so you can book to travel with another airline to be safe?

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280400#Comment_122280400

Absolutely not. EI aren’t going to refund you on the off chancee your flight may be affected

Kiss my Axe

Thought as much. Hoping it won’t drag on for 4 weeks.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280400#Comment_122280400

No.

Flight must be actually cancelled in order to apply for a refund or accepted re-routing options from Aer Lingus.

For clarity, the work to rule does not commence until next Tuesday.

Aer Lingus are already putting plans in place to minimise disruption. (Irish Times earlier made reference to hire-ins) No-one knows if any particular flight a week away (or more) will/may be cancelled except the crewing section in Aer Lingus.

EG. I read an Irish Times article earlier with passenger voxpops. 1 guy stated he will never fly with Aer Lingus again. His flight is in mid July. Nothing has happened to him.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280427#Comment_122280427

Regardless, your flight may not be affected. I’d imagine long haul would be prioritised. But please don’t take my word on that

Kiss my Axe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280439#Comment_122280439

Selfishly hoping that’s the case! I won’t start fretting for another 10+ days over it. Plenty time for them to get an agreement before July 25th for me. Feel sorry for the travellers in the next 2 weeks.

Kiss my Axe

perhaps another stupid comment here but I’m ignorant on these matters. Would Shannon be for example be less effected in terms of cancellations do to less flights etc than Dublin, or would it be pure hit and miss.

lintdrummer

I'm speculating here, but I'd guess it's more likely to be affected because there are no pilots based in Shannon so they have to position them down by road. With things likely being delayed in general, it's possible the pilots will be tight on their allowed duty hours for Shannon flights.

That's just a wild guess, we won't know until next Wednesday.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280201#Comment_122280201

Are you sure I’m posting inaccurate information ?

The pool of leave will compensate the union reps for when they have to work a day off. It doesn’t miraculously magic up a pilot just sitting around waiting to be called in to cover a union meeting.

You can only replace a pilot on a flying duty with a reserve pilot if you have a reserve pilot available to cover.

Or

You can only cover a pilot on duty with overtime if there is someone available and willing to work for the appalling overtime rate being offered. Unsurprisingly there are flights being cancelled because very few want to work for this amount.

or

You cover it with a swap/change if someone is willing, available or able to swap or change to cover.

Am I right with this ? Or does IALPA indeed have pilots sitting around waiting to cover union meetings only on reserve.

donkey balls

Anytime the company i work for is in the WRC reps from each department go, And depending on what department they work in we try and plan for cover etc. No one losses a day's holiday etc.

Roughly the employees in my company since 2019 to present have got 2/3 pay rises last one agreed was prior to inflation from memory to present its around 20% give or take -/+3%.

The EI Mgmt team be only there for a few years get in grab what they can from the actual full time employees and ride off into the sunset with the bonuses and go to another IAG op.While the people working there pick up the pieces.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280855#Comment_122280855

similar to my place. Overtime to get people off work. Bosses ask for us to change duties etc etc.

If they work a day off for a meeting, prep for a meeting, have an internal meeting or any other work for the union on their day off our pool leave is used to cover that.

faceman

Jaysus this thread is mad. It's more entertaining than the time the Russia bots started posting in the Ukraine thread. 😂

This whole situation isn't going to end well. Let's say management caved and gave pilots what they wanted. Is that the end of it? Absolutely not…

"Because if the pilots can get that much, why can't we?", says everyone else at AL..

Also the argument about inflation and pay increases in other sectors has to stop. It's not comparable.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280954#Comment_122280954

Too right and more power to the other groups to chase better pay and conditions too. Engineers left Aer Lingus in their droves over the last couple of years because they were outrageously underpaid. That has improved, but they still earn a good bit less than Ryanair and as a result they're struggling to attract new joiners.

I can't understand why anyone would take the view you have. Why support the handful of people at the top who are happily lining their own pockets with millions in salary and bonuses whilst making life harder for the thousands of employees? Not to mention most of them will only spend a few years in Aer Lingus before moving on, they don't care about the long term viability of their cost cutting.

The company is very profitable and predicts to improve it's margins year on year. It can afford to improve the salaries of it's staff. If the pilots getting a good increase provokes other unions to seek better pay for their members in other departments, I think that's an absolute win for workers in general. It's not going to have a huge impact on fare prices, the company will still be in exceptionally good financial health and the staff will be happier and probably more productive (not to say they're not absolutely flat out as it is, considering how under resourced most departments are).

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280954#Comment_122280954

Other sections in Aer Lingus negotiated and agreed on salary changes last year. Those deals have a timeframe (usually 3-5 years) on which no further requests/demands can be made.

Thus the pilots deal/no deal shouldnt affect them. (Maybe why EI Mgmt left them to last?)

As an example, the EI engineers got a big increase last year. They were paid approx 2/3s of Ryanair mech before that. Which mean there was a lot of them jumping ship to FR.

corkman123

not actually true, if pilots manage to eventually get an increase greater then cabin crew or ground staff then those departments can also go into negotiations straight away also. It was part of the deal they agreed.