Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311546#Comment_122311546

In most operational intensive companies a ‘strict work to rule ‘will gum up the works seriously.

The staff up to then have been working normally and getting paid for it.

The company seem to think extra productivity can be achieved?

Spanish Eyes

I am impartial at the moment, since I don't travel anywhere during the school hols anymore thank god.

However, I notice the Indo today interviewed some passengers at Dublin Airport. Each of them had something negative to say about the pilots action. Is this kind of brainwashing us or bias or what?

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/ive-packed-the-work-laptop-just-in-case-aer-lingus-passengers-describe-anxiety-over-flight-disruption/a1554661065.html?

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311634#Comment_122311634

I think Aer Lingus has referred to "work practices" and existing agreements which they would like to review. That sort of territory is fairly standard in terms of what any management side would wish to discuss, especially if certain issues or practices are longstanding.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310893#Comment_122310893

You really should edit your post as it is wrong and full of misinformation.

Top of scale EI captain who was promoted prior to Covid is on just over €200k. That equates to about £170k. So your figure and assertion that BA are catching up to Aer Lingus is absolutely incorrect.

A top of scale captain who was promoted after Covid will be on just over €160k. So nowhere near BA.

Your pension figure is slightly off, it's 21%.

You post as if you know what you're talking about, but I don't think you do.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311724#Comment_122311724

And no doubt they interviewed many who agreed with the pilots actions.

That story isn’t as dramatic though.

Rag of a paper anyway

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311753#Comment_122311753

like a few on here.

So much incoherent nonsense from a few posters

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311620#Comment_122311620

there are probably other factors that EI want to get rid of. Maybe some legacy practices etc. I’m sure a lot of the posters on this thread know what they are that EI seem to be so eager to remove. They can’t be just minor things if they are worth the difference in the pay dispute.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311529#Comment_122311529

not really; it can often be a tactic to delay negotiations to not have a formal mandate at the outset. Thing is I think they should not have engaged in strike action until they had a full mandate. the EInmanagement team likely also does not have free rein to negotiate.

Marcusm

Mightn’t be an issue of total hours but perhaps spread of hours etc. EI seems to be particularly season compared to say BA or IB within IAG’s world.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311929#Comment_122311929

you can be sure the management don’t have any kind of reign.

They are being advised of what the boards stance is, and that’s what they have to go on

moonshy2022

In terms of mandate, yes it can be very deliberate. A good strong membership will instruct their executive NOT to negotiate on stuff they don’t want to lose. If EI management have to include that then they have to go back to their membership for approval. It’s not unusual, it saves the staff from getting f*cked over with a crap deal.

The membership here will be very focused on the fact they are owed pay rises and that they shouldn’t be tied to other stuff. For instance inflation over the last 3 years cumulatively is around 16-17% and still rising let’s not forget. Why should that be tied to productivity ? I mean jeez when you just look at inflation alone they aren’t far off the 24% they are asking for. 16-17% is just to match the increased costs of everything these days. Running to stand still.

I’d love to know what productivity senior management gave for their 66% increases. Because wow it must have been a lot to get that….right, or will it have been a reflection of how well they negotiated recent staff deals and how much they saved the company and IAG versus what they should have given the staff in those deals ?!

EI negotiators are equally hamstrung. 12.5% is a lot, they are likely told there is more available but that’s all you can do with X, Y and Z happening. If you do then you can offer another x amount. But you come to us first.

Bad PR and losses will unlock the bank vault for the unions. No matter what, EI and IAG don’t want bad PR days and a failing airline.

moonshy2022

It will be far more complex than hours, there’s only so much that can be done that’s compliant with EASA and fatigue rules.

Like most airlines the pilots will have complex deals on stuff like Emerald using props and not jets etc. There will be so many deals done over the years that are potentially on the table, EI will want blood for their money. Pilots will get most of their pay but expect them to lose a decent amount in return, it’s about how much they are willing to give for it. That’s what EI mean by ripping up deals.

knobtasticus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312319#Comment_122312319

You’re talking about a group of employees who learned to budget on 50% pay for close to 2 years and the last group in the airline to see their pay (almost) restored. I’d bet many would rather no pay rise at all than give up a single working condition. There’s a reason IALPA doesn’t have a mandate to negotiate giving away T&Cs - the pilot body won’t accept that. The whole point is to recover T&Cs that were lost when the company rammed through changes in exchange for pay restoration post-Covid. Giving MORE away isn’t on the table - particularly when what EI are demanding will disproportionately affect junior pilots and pilots the airline hasn’t even hired yet. No union worth its existence would make such deals as it irrevocably weakens the future strength of the union. Divide and conquer is standard corporate play.

bartkingcole

is a possible business decision to dissolve the company, transfer slots in Heathrow to BA and aircraft to the other operators in the group?

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312416#Comment_122312416

yes it’s possible but it would be beyond stupid.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312521#Comment_122312521

is it though? Is Aer Lingus that profitable?

cson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312572#Comment_122312572

You're talking about dissolving the entire company over an industrial dispute?

Please tell me you're not in a role that involves any decision making in your own day to day life…

Fwiw its very easily Google-able to see how profitable EI is, €225m in 2023, €168m in 2022.

But yeah I guess if you're an unserious person you might want to dissolve a company that's posting those numbers.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312416#Comment_122312416

That’s a ridiculous post, on so many levels

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312685#Comment_122312685

Given that the parent company are saying already that they will withhold investment is it that far fetched? It is fact that at several times in the airlines history the company needed to be propped up by the shareholders.

While you sneer (unnecessarily nastily) at someone saying this, do you actually think that this has not crossed minds? And please don’t mistake someone asking the question as someone advocating. Thomas Cook, British Midland, Air Berlin, TWA, Continental, Alitalia, Pan Am, Swissair, Wow.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312694#Comment_122312694

I can guarantee it has never crossed their minds.

They are a profitable company.. not in the 10,s of millions,but 100,s of millions

LimaRomeo990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312416#Comment_122312416

WTF. What kind of comment is that. Where you drunk posting this?

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312692#Comment_122312692

Wazza, please could you show a little more respect for people who ask questions on this thread. You can either choose to answer it or ignore it. But, can we have less of the personal insults. If you don’t, you will drive people from posting and all that will be left is an echo chamber of people supporting your position.

In other news, I sincerely hope that both IAG and IALPA read Kieran Mulvey’s article (hat-tip to EchoIndia who posted the main part here yesterday) on the resolution of industrial disputes. It was an excellent article.

Edit. I see my echo chamber comment was right on the money. LimaRomeo990…..take a bow.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312844#Comment_122312844

Well said Mr N. good call

California Dreamer

How dare those pesky pilots have a decent pension????

Aer Lingus dispute: Passengers brace for more misery today as pilots’ pensions revealed to be up to €90k a year

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312692#Comment_122312692

That’s not personal, that’s aimed at the post and I agree, it is ridiculous and deeply unserious to suggest a multi billion euro company with 4000+ employees will be dissolved over a trade union dispute over a pay rise. At no point has anyone in EI or IAG hinted that that might be a possibility.

In terms of echo chambers, see Mr BBs response to you, it goes both ways.

flyer_query

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312919#Comment_122312919

Why not link the article you are referring to or at least post something that makes sense.

I also read the same article, my takeaway was the pilots are the only ones in EI still on a defined benefit pension almost non existent anymore in any industry, this was taken off all other EI employees as they were moved onto a defined contribution scheme. Also read that pilots stop contributing once pension pot hits a certain amount but EI continue paying in 21% for them which typically sees a pilot make zero contributions after less than 20 years service.

According to BA (who EI pilots love to compare them selves against)

"Pension. We offer a market-leading defined contribution (DC) pension. Enrolled at 2% employee contributions and 7% employer with an option to increase."

https:// careers.ba.com/pilots#:~:text=Pension,with%20an%20option%20to%20increase.

wazzzledazzle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312844#Comment_122312844

It wasn't personal. Far from it.

But i could give you 10 reasons why it was a ridiculous post. Like come on, think about what you suggested. It's ludicrous beyond belief to even think that IAG would dissolve EI.

A company that made 200mn+. last year.

'll say one thing about this thread, it has been moderated quite generously, and this is not a knock at any mods, mods have given people every opportunity to have their voice.

But others(not necessarily you) are coming on, making insidious claims without foundation or back-up.

This is a quite serious thread and in general posters have remained impartial. I have no skin in the game here and am primarily here to offer advice(have some knowledge of the industry) and in some cases offer what i think is a balanced opinion.

Trampas

Depending on what strike is called today can you move your flight earlier in week to get out

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312980#Comment_122312980

I can’t imagine there are too many free seats to MCO which I could move to. I am using Concierge companions tickets for my wife and two kids to travel. I’d happily travel down the back to get out.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312980#Comment_122312980

Any chance we could have a separate thread for posters with questions about their own flight disruption issues?