Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

notuslimited

I don’t recall anybody begrudging the pilots their salaries. Good luck to them. I want my pilot to be financially secure and not having to worry about putting food on the table or for that matter wanting to live in a nice house and driving a nice car. They have a very responsible job and I have complete respect for them.

I too am also ex EI and in my experience the race to the bottom has been going on for over 20 years. I don’t think the outcome of this dispute will benefit any non pilot staff in the industry in terms of pay or conditions. In fact, I would argue that if the pilots get more, there will be less flexibility from IAG for other EI staff if terms of their own pay aspirations.

Finally, there has been a lot of talk about the wealth of shareholders etc, but in my book they will be OK. The real losers when it comes to paying out what a lot would consider as a very high pay award, is the fare paying passenger who will see fares increase. So it’s not the shareholders who will be worse off, it’s people like you and me who travel on EI. We will end up paying for the pilots pay award. I’m not adverse to this, but a pay award of 23% over 3 years seems excessive in my humble opinion.

CoisFharraige

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271047#Comment_122271047

A bit far fetched if you ask me. Why do you think the pilots should even have the public's welfare in mind - Aer Lingus management certainly don't! It's a private company in a free market and the pilots have a right to do what they're doing, whether or not it affects people's travel plans. Unfortunately that's collateral damage that comes with this as tragic as it is.

The Aer Lingus pilots have always been relatively well paid. Aer Lingus/IAG seem to be trying to chip away at this and bring it to a "new normal" slowly over the years. Looking at it very black and white - if I was a pilot in Aer Lingus I certainly wouldn't stand for that given the company is recording healthy profits and shows no signs of any financial weakness - especially if they (publicly!) showed nothing but contempt for me. If you were in their position and somebody said you could get a significantly higher salary but you had to strike - would you do it? Unfortunately economic theory would say yes.

TheDriver

Where's the post gone from the poster who heard from their cabin crew friend that 26th is possibly a strike day? (Or am I imagining seeing it?)

Kiss my Axe

was me that wrote it, I didn’t remove it anyways. That’s what a cabin crew member told me.

fael

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271047#Comment_122271047

Industrial action is a right enshrined in Irish law. However, we as a country should be a bit more French and stand up for ourselves.

TheDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271466#Comment_122271466

Thanks, thought I was imagining things. Sounds like they're going to hit hard and fast and I suppose who can blame them.

LubaDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270880#Comment_122270880

Nope, one day strikes for the likes of a airline will leave aircraft out of position. It will take a day or two post strike for normality to resume, possibly longer?

One day strikes at airlines typically cause maximum disruption for minimal outlay - it's a very effective tactic.

Kiss my Axe

for what it’s worth as I said it’s a cabin crew member that told me as I’m flying to the states myself with them July 25th, they’re hoping the company will rethink their strategy after 1 day of disruptions, she can’t envisage it going on too long in the height of their busy season. That’s the hope anyway.

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271474#Comment_122271474

I have been to Paris and other French cities during periods of industrial unrest. I would hate to see the level of violence, assault and smashing up of cities which can be a feature of French industrial action arrive here in Ireland.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271504#Comment_122271504

Hopefully if the flight crew decide to ruin peoples plans then Aer lingus management will let them picket away.

dash8q400

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271567#Comment_122271567

Now that's just a bitter comment

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271591#Comment_122271591

Strikes are bitter. Its a bitter move this time of year to strike.

Gusser09

They obviously wont get 24 percent. I assume they are looking to meet in the middle of that figure and whatever was offered? 16 or 17 percent. Some payrise if you can get it.

Re the strikes dates. If they give 7 days notice from tomorrow it'll probably be from mid day Tuesday next week.

Highest paid captain will get close to 260k per year.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271214#Comment_122271214

so that is your perspective. The pilots will form a small part of the workforce of any airline. Unfortunately success for them will mean the opposite for you. Except for those in regulated roles (engineers, mechanics etc), airline staff don’t have high barriers to entry. As a result, success for the pilots will absorb additional costs which could otherwise have been spread over other airline staff who are more replaceable than pilots (harsh but true).

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271474#Comment_122271474

French air traffic controllers went on strike in protest against a law which raised the pension age to 64. A change from which they were exempt. Anyone who thinks they were right is a moron. The only people affected were non-French resident was the French flights were protected and flights from other jurisdiction were cancelled. Net result - no additional pressure on French government but impact on other working people. A farce.

Marcusm

Out of the hands of Dublin management. iAG will not give in as it would encourager les autres. The pilots won’t win or to the extent that they don’t will be as a result of disproportionate damage.

EchoIndia

At the moment I'm struggling to see where this is all ultimately leading.

The Labour Court recommendation included a recommendation for "…the continuation of engagement, with the assistance of the WRC, on all matters in dispute with a view to reaching overall agreement. That engagement to be concluded by the end of August 2024. In the event of a failure to find overall agreement with the assistance of the WRC, outstanding matters to be referred again to the Court for a final and definitive recommendation…."

It remains to be seen whether this proves possible. Work stoppages or work-to-rule may exert pressure on management, but they are not going to just cave in, or make major concessions just to get discussions going again. The parties are still going to have to re-engage at some point, presumably using the State IR mechanisms, as they seem incapable of making progress bilaterally.

HTCOne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271694#Comment_122271694

To be fair, that was a General Strike in France, ie ALL Civil Service Unions were on strike.

fael

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271702#Comment_122271702

It's been mentioned a few times that the BA pilots got 24%. So if IAG would allow a 24% pay rise for them then why not for the others in the group? That doesn't rhyme with your logic.

Lockheed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271974#Comment_122271974

Lot of factors in it from an IAG angle. Aer Lingus mgmt have indeed already offered to match that figure but as part of the agreement they are looking for improvements in productivity and flexibility beyond what the pilot community/IALPA are willing to accept. IAG as major stakeholders probably need to see some improvement in this productivity to help justify the increase in the cost base.

Summer rosters, as was pointed out here to myself before, are fairly grueling already and these productivity and flexibility "improvements" have never been definitively outlined.

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271974#Comment_122271974

Maybe it’s just me but I always struggle with this comparison. Would a better comparison be what Ryanair pilots are getting in the Dublin base.

VivaLasBegas

No. Different type of airline, different strategy and they do not fly long haul. Fair comparison is to network airlines, BA, KLM, Air France etc and if you look and what they get paid it's not unreasonable what is being asked for. And that's before you even look at the US majors who EI compete with on the Atlantic.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271283#Comment_122271283

The reality, I believe, is that many of the employees groups in Aer Lingus have clauses that they negotiated with management stipulating that if an other group gets a higher pay rise than them, they are entitled to reopen their own pay negotiations. I have heard that this is a major reason that management don't want to give the pilots a higher percentage than anyone else. If true, it's an awful hole they've dug for themselves.

As for paying higher fares, someone worked it out in the other thread at €5 maximum average per fare if the pilots got 24%. Would hardly be noticeable for the passenger if the company wanted to cover it that way.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271672#Comment_122271672

See my previous post. Plus, other groups have already accepted pay increases that they were happy with. That's their prerogative, as it is the pilots to seek what they are asking for.

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272144#Comment_122272144

€5 per passenger actually sounds like a lot. If the average EI short haul fare is say €80/€90 then this would be a decent chunk just to cover this raise, ignoring the base pay and pay of all other staff.

lintdrummer

€5 average. Lower fares wouldn't have as much of an increase.

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272180#Comment_122272180

still - if €5 represents 25% increase, it implies that on average, €20 for every fare is to cover pilot costs. Considering fuel and the aircraft cost, that is higher than I expected.

not making a judgement, makes sense in a way but just higher than I expected.

PTH2009

Never thought I'd say this but 'thank **** I'm travelling with Ryanair this summer'

The anxiety holiday goers must be going through over this. Not nice esp with the price of things

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272155#Comment_122272155

huh?

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272248#Comment_122272248

True, and an interesting way of looking at it. I think what the original poster did to work it out is divide 40m by total passengers carried in 2023 (10.7m) to get approx €3.75 extra per passenger.

Changes the maths a bit, €15 of what every passenger paid goes to pilot salaries. So it's not €15 out of every fare because passenger fares aren't the only revenue at an airline. A lot of freight is carried which is very profitable. All the on board sales, WiFi etc all has a profit margin. Bottom line I suppose is that pilots are expensive!