First Secretary 2024

lucat

Thought I'd start a thread for this. Can anyone tell me if the test provider has been confirmed? Is it SHL?

Circular: https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/2c473-circular-062024-interdepartmental-competition-for-appointment-to-first-secretary-in-the-department-of-foreign-affairs/

SheevPalps

Brilliant. What do you mean by SHL?

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269168#Comment_122269168

SHL is one of the psychometric test providers the Public Appointments Service use. AON is another one but there may be others. I want to know which provider they are using for this competition because we don't have long to practice.

countyireland12345

There is an open competition too if you want to change the title.

SpringThing

I'm wondering about the missions abroad, It says regularly but how often would you be travelling? I doubt I have much chance of getting far in the competition anyways but might still apply on the off chance.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271342#Comment_122271342

You have to live abroad for 3 and 4 year stints regularly during the career.

exitstageleft

Are there definitely going to be standardised testing? There was talk that there might not be.

licayal

Linking the previous discussion on Comp for info. Looks like initial progress after the submission of applications was 1 month after comp closure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215472/open-first-secretary-dfa-2021

licayal

Table of Hardship Allowances.pdf

The hardship allowances for last year^^

Got this through an FOI because I was curious haha

SpringThing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273245#Comment_122273245

Oh Jayzis, I was thinking a long weekend here or a week there kind of thing. I'd miss the Kerrygold and Tayto sandwiches too much, So be one less competitor for all you applying.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273750#Comment_122273750

Many thanks. Interesting that there were no tests, I've never come across that before! On a related note, could someone PM me the Information Booklet? I'm guessing the various stages were listed in that but I can only find the Circular.

sohara00

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274648#Comment_122274648

That info is in the circular document, page 6

Selection Process
9. The selection process for this competition may comprise a number of elements. These may
include one or more of the following:
• Completion of an online Assessment Questionnaire.
• Online and/or paper-based assessment test(s).
• Shortlisting of candidates on the basis of the information supplied in their application.
• A competitive preliminary interview(s).
• Interview(s) / Online Video Interview(s).
• Presentation/Analysis exercise.
• Group/Team exercise.
• Work sample test.
7
• Any other tests or exercises that may be deemed appropriate, including language
proficiency tests.

sohara00

Revenue always had it that when you were going for AP level it was 2 interviews and never a test so not that unusual when you get to the higher grades.

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274648#Comment_122274648

The various stages were not listed. Just what things might be used for selection. I'm going to guess - shortlising and then two rounds of interviews. Those tests are more for 3rd Sec level.

lucat

It would be really nice not to have those tests but I won't hold my breath, I've definitely seen them for the higher grades too.

lucat

Thank you

exitstageleft

Guess the shortlisting results should be out this week. Maybe Friday?

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273245#Comment_122273245

I worked in Foreign Affairs for a short while and got some exposure to how it works.

Career diplomat is a tough gig and it’s not for everyone. Regular postings of 3/4 years, alternating between home and abroad.

A bit of glamour attached perhaps with various functions to attend etc but you’re always at work and you have to watch your Ps and Qs more than you would in other public sector jobs.

Might suit younger people with a taste for travel but as you get older it’s different. Not easy to move your family every few years away from their friends and relatives.

Those who I worked with were extremely dedicated and good at their jobs but they paid a price in terms of their home life. I certainly wouldn’t envy the life.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302054#Comment_122302054

Have you worked in other areas of the civil service since? If so, how did the workload compare between departments?

I have heard that the Department of Foreign Affairs asks a lot of its staff, especially those in the diplomatic stream.

Doesn't seem to lighten the competition for those roles though!

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302054#Comment_122302054

I worked in that sector for a few years so I know the lifestyle well. It is a young man's game if you're not interested enough in the work. But if you really enjoy the work, nothing else matters and you're happy to make a lot of sacrifices for it.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303333#Comment_122303333

I worked in several government departments over decades. Foreign Affairs’ culture is unique given the nature of the work.

The workload can be demanding in all departments depending on the area you’re in and how comfortable you are with the work.

With diplomatic work, you’re always “on” particularly when you’re posted abroad. For example, you’re invited to (and expected to attend) various functions involving the Irish diaspora. While there’s a lot of respect for your position, it’s quite demanding, especially if you have family to consider.

As @lucat has said though, if you really like the work, nothing else matters. It’s a very rewarding and important role for those willing to take it on. It’s more like a vocation than a job. It’s not really comparable to other CS departments.

countyireland12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303826#Comment_122303826

Always "on" is not unique to the DFA. I know many non-DFA civil servants who are always "on" because they are making huge decisions and effectively running the country. They travel abroad on a regular basis given how international and EU-focused policymaking and Departments have become. They attend events with business and other stakeholders, and accompany the Minister to his engagements.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304288#Comment_122304288

There’s a difference between the regular basis you describe and the full time basis of DFA diplomatic staff.

The non-DFA equivalent of First Secretary is an Assistant Principal. While they may occasionally be “on” at certain times and/or when traveling abroad, it’s not at the same frequency as diplomatic staff. I say that as someone who’s worked at that level both within DFA and in other Government departments.

exitstageleft

At this rate, this conversation is going to thin the candidate pool quicker than the shortlisting. 😁

I imagine First Secretary has a lot of positives going for it too, not least in travel opportunities. While the salary is fair, I understand there are additional per diems or top-ups when abroad which makes it more attractive.

Ted222

When posted abroad, you get a rental allowance which in most cases covers the full cost of the expense incurred. Over a career, you’ll get to do a lot of travel and see a lot of places but it’s in a work capacity which is obviously less fun.

lucat

This weekend will be a month since the application deadline, so we should hear something today. Also the odds are good because today is Friday. Here's hoping…

licayal

No word yet so most likely Monday at this point?

adwickham

I emailed PAS this afternoon and they said it would be a few more weeks

licayal

That's a very tight turnaround for interviews and offers etc. if majority of us need to give one month's notice for the internal competition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122315048#Comment_122315048

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325232#Comment_122325232

This is only to get to the next step, probably interviews. Nothing to do with offers etc. The final step will be months and months away.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325232#Comment_122325232

What exactly is the one month notice for?

Is the internal competition seperate to the inter-departmental?