Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515861#Comment_122515861

We are going to have to take your word for that, but frankly I don't buy any of it.

That's the beauty of the internet - you live or die on the strength of your arguments and yours have been hollow and unsubstantiated.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515861#Comment_122515861

smells like session chat

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515949#Comment_122515949

Dont worry i wont. Which argument specifically had you an issue with? Its only necessary on this thread to state you have not taken the Covid vaccine to be met with screams and rants about anti vaxxers, low IQ, conspiracies etc. My reasons for not taking it were
Novel vaccine technology.
Not in at risk group
Evidence emerging at the time of a very mild mutation becoming dominant.
Evidence at time emerging of little protection from infection or transmission.
And except for mRNA which seems to be well accepted and no blatant issues I was bang on correct.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517507#Comment_122517507

How did you get misled by the Norway study? Where did you find it and how did you conflate it with vaccines being dangerous?

jsd1004

I presume you are referring to the deaths that occurred after the vaccine was administered to elderly/infirm patients in Norway. I stand by that. It is not exaggerating that side effects of the Covid Vaccine can be quite severe. It is not unreasonable that very infirm patients would pass away after administration of the Covid vaccine. My best friend a hardened Covid vaxx advocate had to go to hospital after his first Covid vax with breathing issues. Under 50. And went on to take numerous others thankfully none as bad as the first.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517761#Comment_122517761

It was an early piece of anti-vax propaganda due to its conclusions being misunderstood by anti-vaxxers, why did you feel a need to bring it up as part of your anti-vaccine stance?

Was your friend elderly, infirm and expected to live only for a few days? (sorry for your loss if that was the case).

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515861#Comment_122515861

I see you reported me

__________________________________

Warned: Off topic. Irrelevant.

thereiver

I know 2 people did not get the vaccine they say COVID is like a cold not a big deal these are over 40 years old well educated .

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518076#Comment_122518076

I know 2 people that died from Covid.

One of whom was an anti-vaxxer and was begging for funds for treatment on a Gofundme at the end.

I know 2 other people that had Covid (pre-Vaccine) and it was mighty suffering for weeks.

So, have you got a point beyond an anecdote? Are you ashamed for getting the shots?

Shoog

I got Covid before it was officially recognised. Very bad and very debilitated.

About the same time a friend nearly ended up in hospital with the same suffering with sever difficulty breathing.

Lots of elderly people died in the area around the same time from a mysterious bronchitis. Lots of wakes.

Both and my friend were very debilitated for months after, in fact I can say I haven't been totally right ever since, we talked about it only a few days ago. I would imagine the economic impact to national productivity will be very substantial from people suffering from long COVID.

I don't regret having the vaccine and just wish it had been available earlier and maybe I would now be in better shape than I am.

Igotadose

Also, as long as we're dealing anecdotes, the people I know that had covid badly and recovered were young, under 40. The ones that died probably in their 50's.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517761#Comment_122517761

Covid vaccines can be quite severe indeed. It has been shown in many publications that safety of those vaccines has been very much batch dependent. Most recent research suggests that not only they did not have 'no apparent benefit" they are now found to be a very significant contributor to excess deaths: https://www.worldtribune.com/researchers-study-of-125-countries-finds-no-evidence-covid-vaccines-provided-any-benefit/

The study was done on the population size of 2.7 billion, considered 93 countries for which sufficient data was available in a the period of 2020-2022. The excess deaths calculated were 30.9m with three plausible primary causes of death associated with the excess all-cause mortality during (and after) the Covid period:

• Biological (including psychological) stress from mandates such as lockdowns and associated socio-economic structural changes
• Non-COVID-19-vaccine medical interventions such as mechanical ventilators and drugs (including denial of treatment with antibiotics)
• COVID-19 vaccine injection rollouts, including repeated rollouts on the same populations

They calculated a figure of 16.9 million as covid-19 vaccine-associated deaths. which makes them, according to the authors, responsible for almost 55% of all excess deaths.

Full report: https://correlation-canada.org/covid-excess-mortality-125-countries/

There are now scientist and medical professionals who claim that the net effect of vaccines on population has been very negative and that we have not seen the end of it yet. Of course more research and work is required to establish an outright causation but that would need access to data that pharma and the governments are not willing to share right now.

There are two main problems. One that medical knowledge is in control of commercial interest and the new research that contradicts a well forged narrative finds it difficult to capture attention. The second issue is that it is easier to fool people than to prove to them that they have been fooled.

I wish you all the best with the latter. Good luck!

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518286#Comment_122518286

Posting a none peer reviewed study referenced in a crank publication isn't achieving what you imagine it is.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

ohhvey. still going on about vaccines.

Dano650

Why are people still arguing over the covid? The same people at it for months. Get over it folks and move on with your lives. A majority of people don't care about it anymore

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518197#Comment_122518197

My experience similar to yours, I got it when the news was saying there were officially 30 odd cases of COVID in Ireland. That hospitals were not testing for COVID if you presented at the time makes me think there were probably more.

Nasty few weeks, with after effects for years, now mostly mitigated. Got the vaccine as soon as I got the invite.

There seemed to be more cases over the summer with friends and family going down with it.

This thread reminded me to look into getting a booster now.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518286#Comment_122518286

This 'batch dependent' angle was misinformation you posted previously to the vaccine thread.
Some very dubious claims were made, in an interview with John Campbell on Youtube.
The claims in the video were thoroughly discredited.
So no, that has not been 'shown', and to assert that it has is anti vax disinformation without foundation.

These researchers listed on World Tribune, what's their PHDs in?

This is one of the experts you are citing for authority, Denis Rancourt.

Rancourt is widely known for his confrontations with his former employer, the University of Ottawa, over issues involving his grade inflation and "academic squatting", the act of arbitrarily changing the topic of a course without departmental permission.

In 2024, Rancourt made statements expressing support for various fringe views regarding COVID-19, including suggesting that the virus did not exist and that the symptoms were due to "psychological stress"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Rancourt

This is a standard angle we often see in anti vaccine disinformation. Focus on an outlier report, bonus points in this case the outlier report comes from someone in a total different discipline - physics.

So we have a report from a physicist, thrown out of his own university, who suggests that Covid does not exist, and we're expected to treat it seriously? Nope. Denis Rancourt is a anti vaxxer peddling absolute nonsense and disinformation about Covid.

Why would anyone pay any attention to the nonsense being peddled by a physicist about covid vaccines?
Why would anyone even cite them as a source?
Amazing you found this bunch of cranks isn't it, out of all the experts and sources you could have relied on, you just happen to find this lot?

Meanwhile, in the world of actual evidence and real experts, this is Paul Hunter, a Professor of Medicine:

COVID vaccines saved millions of lives… we can be confident that the excess deaths seen in recent years were not a consequence of the vaccination campaign.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/covid-vaccines-saved-millions-lives-181306787.html

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517507#Comment_122517507

"Evidence at time emerging of little protection from infection or transmisiion"

An extrodinary statement from someone who has gone to great pains here as regards their level of intelligence imho.

Vaccination status of laboratory confirmed cases of COVID-19 in those age >12 notified in Ireland 27th. June - 4th. December 2021. Risk of severe outcome during the month of November 2021.

Unvaccinated were 4 times more likely to be hospitalised with laboratory confirmed COVID-19 than those fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated were 11 times more likely to be admitted to ICU than those fully vaccinated. Source: HSE HPSC Epidemology Team 13/12/2021.

In November 2021 roughly 90% had recieved at least one vaccination shot, so unless you somehow believe the Health Protection Surveillance Centre was lying then I cannot see any other way your claim can be given any credence.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520663#Comment_122520663

Ah now come on. 3 years later with 95% of the population vaxxed and there is still significant Covid Waves. As big as the pre vaccination days. Rose tinted specs and all or else its the unvaxxed doing the spreading. Just to emphasise as the poster seems to have missed the point. Im talking about infection and transmission. Nothing to do with severe outcomes hospital admissions etc. And the usual he is not as smart as he thinks he is. Even though the same guy or girl missed the point completely. I would never infer they are not as smart as they think they are. I'm not that shallow. And the spelling mistake we will let that slip as well.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521615#Comment_122521615

Vaccinated people less likely to be infected and even if infected less likely to transmit:

https://hselibrary.ie/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-sars-cov-2-transmission-and-infection-among-healthcare-workers-with-specific-consideration-of-the-b-1-617-2-delta-variant/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10975059/

The protection wanes and is weaker against later variants.

But in the context of the vaccine rollout in summer 2021 and opening up high risk activities this was important from public health perspective, as well as for those individuals engaged in the activities.

This is the period of time when vaccines were rolled out to those outside the vulnerable cohorts to lower risk groups.

So I dont know what evidence you are referring to when you speak of 'evidence at time'. What time exactly are you referring to?

Bearing in mind you have made vague , dubious and false claims already on the thread about information on the vaccines.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521869#Comment_122521869

The evidence at the time was vaccinated persons getting infected with Covid when they were told they were protected and vaccinated. This was the early stage of the vaxx campaign when there was a surge of Covid amongst a party of vaccinated persons in the US. Its black and white. They got vaccinated thought they were protected and they were not. End of story. Where are these false claims you are referring to? Please link one.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521615#Comment_122521615

LOL come on yourself with your "… but but but, look over there" attempt at distraction when your grandiose statement of "evidence at time emerging of little protection from infection or transmission" has been shown to be patently false. Unvaccinated were 4 times more likely to be hospialised and 11 times more likely to be admitted to ICU.

I don`t remember any guarantees by vaccine manufacturers or health authorities that vaccines would provide 100% protection from COVID-19. I do remember assurances that by being vaccinated it would greatly reduce the risk of hospitalisation and ICU admission, which contrary to your statement, is exactly what the Health Protection Surveillance Centre data shows.

Personally I would have thought that anyone with even a modicum of intelligence on seeing that data who believes we now have waves of COVID as big as the pre vaccination days, would have considered the very strong possibility that the reason for the greatly reduced numbers in hospital and ICU beds now is due to that 95% vaccinated rather than ramblings about rose tinted specs.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521897#Comment_122521897

Again, what evidence at what time making what specific claim?

What you are saying now is miles away from what you were challenged on which was: "little protection".

So nope, no end of story. That is the obvious deflection when misinformation is challenged. What you are saying now is not what you said earlier.

Your claims have no credibility when you make grand claims with zero evidence and then shift the goalposts when challenged.

This is one of your earlier dubious claims discredited. Another claim you made with zero actual evidence that was false.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508872#Comment_122508872

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521898#Comment_122521898

Ridiculous. People take a vaccine on the basis that they will not contract the virus. End of. You dont take the Polio/Measles vaccine on the basis that you might get a less severe version of the disease. You assume you are protected. The Covid Vaccine was sold at enormous profit as a way out of Covid And it has failed miserably. Hence the ongoing Covid situation. Untold damage done to future vaccination campaigns if the answer is it wont stop transmission/infection but will reduce your risk of death only if you are in a high risk criteria.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521952#Comment_122521952

Untold damage is done by those spreading anti vax misinfornation and disinformation.

Noted that you havent challenged any of the anti vax disinformation on this thread despite claiming to be concerned about impact.

And you have posted misinformation yourself about vaccines that it offered little protection v infection, transmission at the time of initial rollout. You provided no evidence for this claim and it is false demonstrated by the evidence cited in my previous post.

In the absence of a "perfect" vaccine, yes of course people got vaccinated with very good vaccines that reduced risk of severe covid and in the midst of a global pandemic reduced risk of infection and transmission. Given the context of the pandemic situation during rollout it is a success story. They are not perfect, they did not provide herd immunity in the long run but that should not lead to 'untold damage' to vaccination campaigns but rather a proper appreciation of covid.

We are unquestionably in a much better place versus the dynamic threat of covid than we would be without them.

The measles vaccine does not provide any guarantees you wont be infected, you can still be infected even with 90% plus effectiveness.

TB vaccine is another example of one protecting against severe outcomes but not as good v infection.

Every year we have significant numbers taking flu vaccine which again offers no guarantees you wont be infected.

So your claim that is the only basis people get vaccinated under is highly dubious.

I have said it a few times already on the thread but in the period of vaccine rollout the number 1 thing you could do to reduce risk of being a strain on medical.services, of getting covid and transmitting it was get vaccinated.

No credible evidence has been produced to counter that. Just anecdotal claims and semantics.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122522025#Comment_122522025

Running around in circles. You keep trying to convince me I am wrong to not take the Covid Vaccine and am an anti vaxxer. I dont try and convince you you were wrong to take it. So can you give it a rest and respect my decision like I respect yours. Just like I wont be taking the TB one the flu one or indeed the Mpox one. Because I am not at risk and dont see a sufficient risk reward. If a disease emerges that I am at risk from I will more than likely take a vaccine if one available. No matter what I post here I still get bullied and badgered because it is engrained in some posters minds that anyone who did not take the Covid vaccine is some sort of societal misfit of low IQ and a burden on society. Over and Out.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122522568#Comment_122522568

I'm not even trying to convince you with regard to your own personal decision.
If anybody posts that they are "ashamed" of the decision, well it is reasonable to engage with that, because it may be possible to explain things such that they change that view.

What I'm disputing is the criteria you lay down for the decision to take vaccines - this goes beyond respecting your own personal decision. It is not just about the risk to you, that is a key piece of the equation, but it also about the public health impact of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in society, in terms of strain on reduction in medical services, reduction in cases.
This is aimed as much at other people reading the thread as you.

You claim to be concerned about vaccine uptake in future, yet repeatedly make false, vague and dubious claims about the covid vaccines without providing any evidence to support them. You do not challenge any of the anti vax disinformation on the thread.
So your position on this thread has gone well beyond respecting someone's own personal decision when you bring that into its scope.

When presented with the counter evidence which disproves your claims, zero attempt to engage with the evidence, zero acknowledgement you were mistaken in your earlier claims, or to withdraw your claim. Instead the goalposts are dramatically shifted onto a new claim.

Your statements of fact here about the vaccines have no credibility, if you continue to make false claims about them, or make wider points about them - they will be challenged.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521897#Comment_122521897

This is just a totally bogus argument, decades of Flu vaccine use told us exactly how the COVID vaccine would behave in the real world. No one who had the slightest understanding of vaccines or viruses would have expected any other outcome than what we saw with the COVID vaccine roll out.

Only someone who was ignorant of the field would claim it was promoted as a once off shot.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122521952#Comment_122521952

For someone who claims to have a high level of intelligence you really have a very low level of understanding on vaccines and specificly the COVID-19 vaccines.

Where you got the idea that those vaccines were 100% guaranteed to prevent you from becoming infected is anybody`s guess as nobody from the manufactures to the World Health Organisation to the authorities that administered the vaccines ever made such a claim. The efficacy levels of all vaccines from the clinical trials were published and widely discussed on all media, so how you or anyone else could somehow have equated those efficacy levels to 100% immunity from infection is frankly mind boggling.

The claim by the manucturers, the WHO and the relevant health authorities, based on those efficacy levels, was not that by being vaccinated you would have 100% immunity from infection. It was that by being vaccinated you would have a much reduced risk of requiring hospitalisation or ICU admission, and contrary to your "evidence at the time emerging of little protection from infection or transmission" the data shows that is exactly what they did with the unvaccinated 4 times more likely to require hospitalisation and 11 times more likely to require ICU admission.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523308#Comment_122523308

I think we've ascertained these claims of high intelligence (well, with regards to medical aspects) to be false.