Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

jsd1004

This is getting tiring. Where is my statement of fact? I asked several questions and suggested a study as we have a large cohort of unvaccinated individuals in Ireland that could act as a control group to show a real world result of the vax campaign against Covid. Get off your high horse. Tempted to do a study myself but no matter what the result, I would be bullied and badgered here that it was not peer reviewed. Not representative misleading etc. Might ask Pfizer for funding. Yep that will be granted. No problem..

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122529181#Comment_122529181

What a load of bull…. The vaccines were 100% designed for the original strain. They had enough to deal with without factoring in possible mutations.

odyssey06

These are statements of fact:

"Vast majority not vaccinated against Covid 19 to any extent."

"You would expect such a large population of unvaccinated individuals to be disproportionately in our ICU's, hospitals and presenting to GP's with severe Covid symptoms... its not happening."

Zero evidence provided on the vaccination breakdown of Ukrainians here.

Zero evidence presented of how many presenting so that it can be proportionately compared.

And posters have provided reasonable explanations in relation to the loaded questions asked.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537056#Comment_122537056

If you want those exact stats I trust you are good at Google. I should not need to link obvious information linked to my anectotal or personal experience. ICU admissions and Covid deaths are freely available. As is amount of Ukrainians in Ireland and their average Covid vaccination status. This screaming for stats and evidence is laudable but if we had stats and evidence to the contrary we would not be having a debate. Unfortunately with 95% of the adult population after taking the drug and the amount of reputations, money and personal pride tied up in the vaxx campaign, it is a brave person in the fiscal and vocal minority who will dare to speak against the consensus.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537074#Comment_122537074

They are your claims, they are statements of fact despite earlier claiming you were only asking questions and speculating.

You have already been caught out on the thread making false statements about vaccines.

Obvious "anecdotal or personal experience" is unverifiable and it is a well known social media trope used to spread misinformation and fake news. It can be abused, and other posters have no way to establish if the information is valid or not.

Entirely reasonable therefore to expect you to support any further claims you are making.

You dont get the benefit of the doubt.

If its all so freely available it should be easy for you to get it and support the claims you making.

In its absence, your claims have no credibility. And my experience on this site is that when someone makes specific claims, and then when queried tells someone to google it... their claims are without foundation and their argument hasnt got a leg to stand on.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536828#Comment_122536828

Ukrainians make up roughly 1.8% of the population here. Of that 1.8% you have no idea how many were vaccinated originally in Ukraine. Ukrainian refugees are entitled to free COVID vaccines here, same as national, and you have no idea how many have recieved booster shots, or how many were vaccinated here since they arrived. As per usual nothing from you except supposition without a single verifiable fact, and attempts to side-track when your suppositions are shown for what they are.

If it`s an interesting case study you are looking for, then address the one that shows your assertion of " evidence at time emerging of little protection from infection or transmission" was completely and utterly false, where those unvaccinated were 4 times more likely to require hospialisation and 11 times more likely to require ICU admission compared to those vaccinated.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537054#Comment_122537054

Correct… and Delta wasn't the original strain, which you asserted it was.

Re: Ukrainian's.. what do you deem to be the age range for high risk?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537054#Comment_122537054

I've lost count of the number of false statements you've made.

Anyway, do you think delta was the original strain or was that a mistake on your part?

Let's figure this out (again, I'm happily backing this up with facts and data, that has already proven you entirely wrong, but we can explain why you're wrong in detail and maybe, as a rational, intelligent and successful person, you will be able to draw different conclusions).

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537380#Comment_122537380

Have you now. You should keep a log. Again a question opinion or anectotal evidence is not creating a statement of fact.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537917#Comment_122537917

But you stated them as if they were facts.

Don't be surprised if people ask you to support such statements when you frame them as facts.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537941#Comment_122537941

No I did not. You stated them as facts. Twisting my comments to try and make me out as ill informed or a spoofer/liar is Trumpian stuff. Like it or not this is an amateur forum and opinions, questions and anectotes are allowed and welcomed AFAIK. Yourself and others like to go the dictatatorship route and bully and harass any poster who dares question any aspect of 'The Haloed Covid vaccine'.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537941#Comment_122537941

No I did not. You stated them as facts. Twisting my comments to try and make me out as ill informed or a spoofer/liar is Trumpian stuff. Like it or not this is an amateur forum and opinions, questions and anectotes are allowed and welcomed AFAIK. Yourself and others like to go the dictatatorship route and bully and harass any poster who dares question any aspect of 'The Haloed Covid vaccine'. Any slight dissent in the camp and the 'anti vaxxer' slur is thrown in as well.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122538017#Comment_122538017

You tried to get people to engage in a made up story as if it was factual.

You must really think we are as dumb as you appear to be.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537917#Comment_122537917

The log is on the thread, scientific papers with facts and figures provided refuting each of your anecdotes.

Are you willing to engage on real data or just spin yourself out like the other anti-vax loons? Are you able to discuss in good faith?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537054#Comment_122537054

And just in case you try and wriggle away again.
Your claim that the vaccine was based on delta:

Comparing the COVID-19 Vaccines: How Are They Different? > News > Yale Medicine

Your claim that Omicron rather than vaccines ended the pandemic:

Comparison of control and transmission of COVID-19 across epidemic waves in Hong Kong: an observational study - The Lancet Regional Health – Western Pacific

Your claim that the vaccine was ineffective against different variants:

BNT162b2 vaccine protection against omicron and effect of previous infection variant and vaccination sequence among children and adolescents in Singapore: a population-based cohort study - The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health

Each of your lies is easily refuted. A lie is not an opinion, an anecdote is not a fact.

My guess is you'll spend the time doing anything but engage on facts but here is your chance to prove otherwise.

Igotadose

Don't bring a water pistol to a gunfight.

jsd1004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122538353#Comment_122538353

Yes obviously there is a multi billion dollar industry that supports and protects the Covid vaccines. People have made immense fortunes on the back of the pandemic. There will never be funding for any dissenting voices or opinions. That is just a fact of life. Money will follow the path of least resistance. Medicine has always been a fight between financial gain and ethics. Always has been always will be. Can be seen with opiods, mental health drugs, oxycontin, abuse and excess prescription of antibiotics, vacines. Cosmetic Surgery etc etc etc. Consultants on a million a year. Modern medicine is around less than 200 years. Edward Jenner would be turning in his grave.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539169#Comment_122539169

You really didn`t need to waste your time verifying @astrofool guess that you`ll spend the time doing anything but engaging on facts.

It`s been clear from a long way back.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539169#Comment_122539169

Does this sound familiar?

Ypu are being sealioned. Pretty standard treatment here in case you do not know.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539169#Comment_122539169

OK, so no rebuttal, just a "big pharma" ploy.

Moderna and BioNTech were startups. Vaccines don't drive large profits and a lot of research is done through philanthropy (see Malaria vaccine as an example).

My guess is you'll spend the time doing anything but engage on facts but here is your chance to prove otherwise.

My guess was correct, how utterly predictable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539446#Comment_122539446

You really don't get what sealioning is, the poster themselves is digging themselves into realms of fantasy, it is fully up to them to either engage with reality or continue spreading lies and seeing them countered while they squirm and spin as much as possible.

Though I think they have fully proven the "intelligent and successful" piece wrong as well thus weakening any further points they make.

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536828#Comment_122536828

Maybe it's the Ukrainians' low jab rates that is stopping them from getting as sick.

I've seen the needle and the damage done.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122538549#Comment_122538549

Good to see Yale medicine are acknowledging that the goal posts have shifted:

Pfizer:

the first COVID vaccine to receive FDA Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) back in December 2020, after the company reported that its vaccine was highly effective at preventing symptomatic disease…

How well it works: The 2023-2024 updated vaccines were approved based on preclinical studies of their efficacy against the latest circulating strains. Some people may still become infected even though they have been vaccinated, but the goal of the vaccines now is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization and death

and

Moderna:

Moderna uses the same mRNA technology as Pfizer-BioNTech and had a similarly high efficacy at preventing symptomatic disease when the companies applied for authorization;

How well it works: The 2023-2024 updated vaccines were approved based on preclinical studies of their efficacy against the latest circulating strains. Some people may still become infected even though they have been vaccinated, but the goal of the vaccines now is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization, and death.

Shifting the goal posts if needs be is not necessarily a bad thing, but gaslighting people into thinking they were always in the same place to start with is pretty moronic. Amazing how many people here are still at it.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539766#Comment_122539766

Shocker that priorities shift when pandemic has ended…

(though I see you have finally acknowledged the severe disease efficacy ;)

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539871#Comment_122539871

I have never questioned the fact that vaccines are effective at reducing the severity of the almost inevitable subsequent infection, particularly in those most at risk.

What I have always questioned is your belief, and many others, that this reduction in severity has since 2020 always been the primary intended benefit of the vaccines, and that is what they were approved for.

That is total nonsense. The specific goal of the vaccines when approved was to prevent infections as I have proved to you time and time again, this is just the latest example.

The great thing is I don't really care anymore, my priorities have shifted now the pandemic has ended, and nobody is foaming at the mouth to vaccinate every man, woman and child in the country, demonising anybody who decides not to.

Sure plenty of people on here are still getting triggered by the discussion and continuing to demonise those who disagree, but out in the real world nobody cares a damn.

If you wish to spend your time arguing black is white, knock yourself out. I'll still enjoy spectating.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480594#Comment_122480594

So your antibodies won't last long, typical covid infection is under a year. Two other things to take from this both on the personal and population level. On a personal level, one mild infection (symptom wise) is no indication of how the next one will go and two, and this was the big thing of the lockdown and vaccination, it isn't for you. You may not suffer but the person you pass it too could.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507832#Comment_122507832

Well that is misleading in the extreme. Trials on mRNA treatments for various illnesses have been happening since the early noughties. In fact, it is the reason it was able to be developed so fast, because there was so much work done before and thankfully people saw the opportunity to pivot from cancer treatment to covid treatment.

The trials were the biggest ever undertaken at that phase ever, they ran several phases concurrently which was unheard of before but had one failed, they would have pulled it.

It takes a fair amount of ignorance to pass comment without doing any research but, to be fair, we all do it from time to time.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122539446#Comment_122539446

they're talking a crap, and not able to back up it… there's a difference.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517507#Comment_122517507

• Not novel technology
• Not the point of a vaccine, that's you call, I didn't take the vaccine because I was in an at risk group, I took it because I know people who are
• Not sure what your point on the mutation becoming dominant is, that is quite common in virology.
• No vaccine protects from infection but most stop it before it becomes an issue. this one in particular reduced symptomatic time and as a proxy reduced transmission time. This is well documented.

CramCycle

Apologies for my misunderstanding, I often make the mistake of thinking that people care about others in the general population, even if they do not know them. I make this mistake all the time. I help people jump start cars, I gave some teenagers spare change when they were short for a bit of food in the takeaway, I help people take their bags down from the racks on the train. The vaccine is less in your face, far less preachy, I don't go round bragging in public that I got it but I get what it does for people I don't know, and who potentially never know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122522568#Comment_122522568

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536828#Comment_122536828

Due to high uptake of vaccines across the EU, due to many of the vulnerable already dying during both Covid 19 initial infection wave and the invasion.

Your made up story actually validates widespread vaccine use.