Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

seanin4711

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721127#Comment_122721127

i agree,if you are happy so am I!

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721074#Comment_122721074

I would not have had any great sympathy for them.

They showed they cared about nobody other than themselves, and when their bull manure theories were proven wrong and they became infected, they were more than happy to disproportionately take up hospital and ICU beds.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721405#Comment_122721405

It was known extremely early (early 21) that the jab didn't stop transmission, so getting it had nothing to do with caring or not caring about anyone else.

Of course it was always unlikely that an injection in the arm would block something that infects rapidly within 2 days via the nose.

But you guys all know this, after all, it was never claimed that it would stop transmission, was it? Just lessened the symptoms supposedly, that's what we now hear….protected against severe disease they said, protected against something vanishingly rare for 99% of the population?

The arguments for inject everything moving as many times as possible are so incoherent and yet the smugness is dripping of the posts, talking about 'dumb anti-vaxxers'. Who, exactly, is dumb?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721651#Comment_122721651

Can you show us this information from early 21?
Is this going to be semantic games about 'stop' versus' significantly reduce'?

Because the information during vaccine rollout showed significant reduction in infection risk to those vaccinated.
IF you're not infected you can't transmit it on.

There are also studies showing that vaccinated people were less infectious even if they did pick up covid.

This was important in the period of vaccine rollout in summer of 2021, as hospitality and travel opened up.
The number one thing you could do to reduce the risk to yourself and others was get vaccinated.

So there is abundant evidence discrediting the claim that "it had nothing to do with caring or not caring about anyone else."

And you're a million miles away from justifying the claims in your post.

Also, there are anti vax claims on the thread that the vaccines did not reduce risk of severe covid, and that the stats on ICU admissions from Covid should not be believed.
I don't see you correcting them as you only ever seem to challenge pro-vaccine claims. Do you agree with them also?

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721713#Comment_122721713

The initial data regarding 'breakthrough' infections was from Israel. They had the first big roll out right, Jan 21, and then they had a summer surge in 21, despite that.

You can do studies to prove almost anything and find the answers you want, you've just said there were studies to show reduced transmission, but then we had our biggest peak when practically everyone was jabbed-I know, variants right? The variants that were always conveniently one step ahead of the jabs-the opposite of the norm.

Did they reduce 'severe' covid for some, possibly, probably for the small cohort susceptible to 'severe covid' but there is simply too much patent nonsense in all of the data, advice and strategies to believe any of it 100%.

Did they reduce severe covid in 20, 30 and 40 year olds to the point where it was worth taking a brand new type of drug with indication again early on of potential heart/clotting issues? No.

The incentive was to drive on the fear, not to dampen.

Any death numbers are affected by the Healthy Vacinee bias.

ICU numbers could have been biased by positive people being put there for isolation purposes to not transmit.

Pregnant women who weren't jabbed being put there as a precaution.

Any hospitalised kid with a broken leg say, would be down as a unvaccinated hospitalisation if they happened to (and it was 50/50 at one point) test positive in hospital, because they simply had no jab available to them.

People who got infected at the super spreader events that were the vax centres were still classed as unvaxed for 2 weeks after.

Like there was so much going on, so many variables but people like yourself just see it all as hunky dory.

Lockdown/Vax/Solved, weren't the authorities fantastic? Nothing to see here. I am, fortunately or unfortunately I don't know, more skeptical than that.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721975#Comment_122721975

Didn't take long for the pretence to be dropped in favour of the standard anti vax conspiracy theory nonsense ("drive on the fear") we've heard time and time again, refusal to engage with the facts and scientific evidence and cop out answers about: You can do studies to prove almost anything and find the answers you want

Why would there be more people with broken legs ending up with severe covid unvaccinated versus vaccinated?
Your claim doesn't make any sense.

You accept data from Israel, when it suits you, rejects the rest. An entirely self serving stance.
What exactly did the data from Israel show? That a breakthrough infection was possible.
Again, that doesn't alter the fact of the statement that the #1 thing you could do to reduce your risk of severe covid, risk of putting strain on medical service and infecting people around you was get vaccinated.

Real world studies from multiple places showed the reduction in infections.
If you aren't infected you can't pass it on.

Over the entire study period, fully vaccinated individuals had an adjusted vaccine effectiveness of 73% (95% CI 72–74) against SARS-CoV-2 infections and 90% (89–92) against COVID-19-related hospital admissions (appendix pp 6–7). Stratified by age group, the vaccine effectiveness against infection of those who were fully vaccinated was 91% (95% CI 88–93) for those aged 12–15 years and 61% (57–65) for those aged 65 years and older (appendix p 6). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362102183-8/fulltext

Similar findings in Israel: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00471-5/fulltext

Similar findings from Qatar:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2203965?query=featured_home

There's no scientific evidence that could be presented to you that would change your opinion, you have left the realm of science. I present here in case there are people open to scientific evidence.

Your claims have been completely discredited and all you have in response is long discredited anti vax conspiracy theory dog whistling.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722046#Comment_122722046

'Why would there be more people with broken legs ending up with severe covid unvaccinated versus vaccinated?

Your claim doesn't make any sense.'

I said if a kid went to hospital for a broken leg or any other routine procedure for that matter, and they tested positive in hospital as was highly likely given high hospital transmission, they would go down as an unvaxxed hospitalisation because there was no vax available to them. It makes perfect sense to anyone capable of thinking. This would affect hospital numbers.

The rest of your post is loaded with the same old tropes and copy and pastes. For someone so caring about others, seemingly, your condescending tone isn't of someone who is particularly nice, throughout this thread.

You mention Real World Data, yes, the real world data is that everyone got Covid, multiple times and the biggest Covid surge was after everyone had been jabbed. That was the real world.

Emblematic

I got the initial double shot of vaccine as soon as it was available to me because I wanted to travel and, at that time, you could not get on a plane without being fully vaccinated and testing negative for the virus.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721651#Comment_122721651

To each there own. Personally I don`t believe that posting verifiable data is some smug exercise. Ignoring the data and posting vague idea with noting to back them up when they have been repeatedly debunk on the other hand I find moronic.

The claim was that vaccination would greatly reduce the risk, should you become infected,of requiring hospitalization, I.C.U. care and death. The data from Ireland as late as November showed that to be the case where the unvaccinated were 4 times more likely to require hospitalization and 11 times more likely to require I.C.U. care. The Real World Data I posted shows that in the real world the difference in the risk of death for the unvaccinated compared to those vaccinated. In fact it debunks, along with the November 2021 data, your whole attempt at misrepresenting that it shows that naturally acquired herd immunity was having any disernible reduction on infections, hospitalization, I.C.U. care or deaths for the unvaccinated.

But then this is not the first time you have come up with this herd immunity claim despite being shown it was bunkem. Sweden, the primary chasers of acquired herd immunity, own seroprevalance test results showed that from an estimated 33% of those infected by the first wave just 7.3% had developed antibodies. Herd immunity would have required 80% at a minimum.

You were also shown where the Brazilian state of Amazonas, their epicentre of infections and deaths, believed based on the number of those infected in the first wave they had reached herd immunity. They even published a scientific paper for peer review based on their theory. One week after publication their second wave hit and they went back into lockdown. You were also shown where India based on their numbers infected during their first wave believed they had reached the numbers required, until their second wave hit and showed who wrong they were. Yet here you are again making the same old rinse and repeat anti-vaccine pro naturally acquired herd immunity claims.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722663#Comment_122722663

I'm not sure you understand some of the things you are using as gotchas.

Just because a person doesn't develop antibodies in the blood doesn't mean they aren't immune/resistant to a virus which attacks them. The reason young kids always have snotty noses is because their mucosal immunity is knocking things back before it becomes an issue. Young people would be knocking back this virus before it ever required blood antibodies-anyone for a spot of asymptomatic? This is why a nasal vaccine would have been better.

I have never used the term 'chasing herd immunity ', herd immunity was always just an inevitable outcome. How we got there was the issue.

A country going back into lockdown is no proof of anything, lockdowns were a political tool. As has been pointed out, Sweden had the same seroprevalence as Ireland apparently despite very different restrictions, North and South Dakota in the States had exactly the same curves with vastly different strategies. Ergo, lockdowns make no difference.

How many deaths had we pre vaccine in 2020? Was it 4k largely mobility restricted people caught and died with covid.....imagine how much infection was among the fully mobile population. How many had to be infected to achieve that many deaths? We had massive infection/exposure even when we were locked down.

Didn't Sweden have some of the best overall death rates for the whole Pandemic period in Europe? I'm sure they did, lockdowns kill too.

If you keep calling people antivaxxers and morons, everyone will know are a good person.....

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723146#Comment_122723146

Lockdowns were not "political". They reduced the number of cases (disease spread) during spikes.

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721975#Comment_122721975

A post full of conjecture, nonsense, and personal opinions, you are of course entitled to your opinion. Facts, verifiable data, peer-reviewed studies would be a better source, no sign of any of that from you.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723146#Comment_122723146

Misrepesentation and avoiding facts does not make them go away no matter how much you wish them too.

"I have never used the term `chasing herd immunity`, herd immunity was always just an inevitable outcome. How we got there was the issue." From an earlier post of yours " What they call vaccine immunity is actually massively down to unackknowledged population immunity"So where did this massively unackknowledged population immunity come from ?

It certainly didn`t come from anti bodies of those previously infected as in Brazil or India. As to your "anyone for a spot of asymptomatic", when you have seroprevalance results showing just 7.3% with antibodies, the number of asymptomatics in a population would have to be over 70% to reach the required threshold. That idea is so bonkers calling it straw clutching wouldn`t come close.

What point you are trying to make on nasal spray vaccines I have no idea. From a Health Centre Medical Review Dec. 2023 nasal spray vaccines were still only indevelopment then with no date as to when they would be available or how effective they would be. So what was your point, that we should have let the virus run rampant until these sprays became available ?

It has been explained here multiple times that lockdown was used to prevent health systems becoming over run leading to the carnage we saw in Italy and Spain. It`s why Amazonas the epicentre of Brazil`s first wave went into lockdown when the second wave hit and showed that like everywhere else it was attempted, the idea that naturally acquired herd immunity from previous infection was a myth as Annika Linde, Tegnell`s predecessor as Sweden`s state epidemiologist said when their seroprevalnce result became public, a myth with no basis in reality.

On your deaths in Sweden. For 2019 deaths in Sweden were 88,766. For 2020 they were 98,124. 9,358 excess deaths (10.5%) higher than 2019. End of Dec 2020 Sweden became one of the first countries to begin mass vaccinations and for 2021 deaths had fallen to 91,958. A coincidence or down to your "massively unacknowledged population immunity" that you have not a shred of evidence to support ? The population of Sweden didn`t appear to have a problem deciding which. By 2022 they had the 5th highest number of vaccine doses per capita administered in Europe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723146#Comment_122723146

Correct.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725546#Comment_122725546

I think my favourite point is the heart issues in middle aged people, which while more likely than someone who never got Covid, you were still more likely to get those issues with Covid and no vaccine. So if that is the gotcha the poster thinks it is, they are arguing for a Zero covid policy which was unworkable economically and politically.

greasepalm

Well it was that time of year again and got My Flu and Covid vaccine as my immune system is shot.

raniemis

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Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122896105#Comment_122896105

Personally, no. Know several west kerry locals that have in the last few weeks. It's still around.