Why are the government intent on forcing through the EU Migration Pact?

Jim2007

……

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284299#Comment_122284299

You will never get that because there is no constitutional basis for it. Making up the rules and then getting up when reality does not oblige is a silly game.

On top of which the recent local elections strongly suggest the government parties continue to enjoy the broad support of the people.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285731#Comment_122285731

They only hold a mandate because there is no credible alternative.

Backstreet Moyes

The elections will be a big difference, I know several people who voted for people in established parties because they know them.

They are all going to be voting for independents.

I think as skimpydo said at this point their is no credible opposition.

I mean only for Sinn Fein are determined seemingly not to get into goverment they would have got in.

Looking at them now, jesus they would have done so much more damage than the current ones.

It will be very hard for people to trust any new party because we don't know a lot about them.

I mean one of the independents in the locals I know from school and he never worked a day in his life, I know that but others probably don't.

We are a decade or two behind countries in Europe who have far right governents now.

We have polls showing the vast majority of the country is against whats going on.

Trying to use the local elections to pretend everyone is happy is childish.

We are not some unique country and we will go right unless things change.

We are a country with a population less than cities in other countries.

We are full currently, we are signing up to take them in and also burdened with scammers from the UK, making it worse for us.

I don't expect to see a change in government, I do in a few years but at that point the country is going to be ruined.

These people are coming over here illegally and getting housed, while I work to pay for it.

We are putting off having another child because the spare bedroom is fine for a kid but not for an adult and emigration or living at home will be the option.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285095#Comment_122285095

They don't want to know, most are so woke and concerned with virtue signalling they are totally incapable of balanced thought.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285030#Comment_122285030

Yeap and when everything goes pear shaped in a few years (it's already begun) they will have their excuse to blame someone but themselves.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285752#Comment_122285752

The government parties got a combined share of the vote of 49.5% in the local elections, not even a majority of the population.

The same government were also defeated in both the family and care referendums that they heavily promoted a few months previously.

To suggest that they have "broad support" to enact this piece of legislation that will have important and long-term implications for the future of this country is fanciful to say the least.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285041#Comment_122285041

I oppose the pact but theres no way I'd vote for the likes of Daly, Wallace and Ming just because they oppose it too.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284136#Comment_122284136

So what should their position be instead I wonder? What is so bad about being "good Europeans" (minus the little) anyway?

Sarky comments like this sound good and fire off the right jingoistic brain cells in some people, but it is pretty hollow, esp. on this issue.

The EU/other member states were not stopping the govt. from dealing with migration differently + letting fewer people in. Esp. the non EU/non Ukrainian "asylum seekers" who are basically economic migrants trying to get a way into a rich country with high living standard via a back door. That has been going on for decades here, long before invasion of Ukraine and I think the pressure only eased off (oddly enough) when we in an IMF programme and our economy went down the toilet.

Why do people think opting out will somehow mean Irish govt. will start tightening up? IMO, it is more likely a more restrictive attitude which is developing now across the EU could feed in here via EU level policy which will be a good thing e.g. if it forces Irish govt to deal with the applications promptly, and deport.

There must be some reason why migrant "rights" lobby groups and parties on left have been squealing loudly about this pact, criticising the EU and politicians that supported it, implying it is inhumane and cruel + unworkable etc.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122287300#Comment_122287300

Which bit of the pact will force this government to deal with cases promptly and deport?

All the pact does is create a legal obligation that sets a floor on the minimum number of asylum cases that Ireland has to take in. How those cases are dealt with is entirely at our discretion.

We deported less than 1,000 people in 2023. Which politician do you think is going to do a complete 180 on their current asylum stance and go hawkish on deportations? Who's going to defy the NGO's and their well funded legal campaigns that block and obstruct deportations at every step of the way? Who's going to run the gauntlet of the media and the inevitable accusations of being "far-right"?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122287479#Comment_122287479

Haven't read details of it (bar few news articles). I thought it was setting out unified processess and procedures for dealing with migrants and asylum seekers, the blurb off the Europa website calls it a "common asylum system").

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/migration-and-asylum/pact-migration-and-asylum_en

As said, the policy era of "refugees are welcome" + "we can do it" etc. is finished for the political centre right and left in the rest of the Western EU countries, even if Irish politicians, esp. on the centre left, have not woken up from their dream yet.

As with all things EU the govt. can to an extent ignore these parts of it and continue as they have been doing + keep the lobby groups happy. I mean, if we don't opt in, they could (and probably would) just do that anyway, so what is the difference?

No other EU country will be taking them off us, and if system remains completely lax and feckless here we will eventually suffer action for (edit: flouting) the new regulations.

I expect pressure on the govt. to act in line with others might rise quicker if we opt in, vs if we don't.

creeper1

They can bat off any journalist's question with the reply that they have no control over it anymore.

They can't wait to be fully justified in uttering their favourite line.

That line being

"We have a legal and moral obligations to help desperately vulnerable people"

creeper1

The right to opt out needs to be exercised imho.

We need to emulate Denmark.

End of.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284291#Comment_122284291

You don't understand the purpose of a referendum.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122288426#Comment_122288426

Oh explain it to me, Pleeaaassseeeeeee

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122287300#Comment_122287300

Each person can decide if our eager adherence to every EU directive is a good thing ,I would prefer a more nuanced approach,especially when we demure from opt outs available to us.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122288843#Comment_122288843

If we opt in, this will be regulation(s) rather than a directive I think.

Politicians here that will oppose this (likes of SF, PBP/far left independents, and now these new right wing independents /microparties) have always opposed everything and anything done at European level.

It is all been terrible acc. to them, the Irish membership of the EEC/EC/EU, and probably very existence of the EU itself.

When something at EU level gets agreed and is going to be implemented here in Ireland and then actually works/is successful they just memory hole all of that (fact they opposed it, were wrong, and that it would have been bad for Ireland if they'd been in power to veto it for everyone, or opt out). Then they move on from it to bitterly oppose the next EU thing.

Try and name something done at European level over last 30 years that they have supported. It is hard. I can't think of anything. Maybe they will get it right by opposing something on a rare occasion like a stopped clock, but mostly they have been wrong.

silverharp

its a joke how bad the centre of Dublin looks now, railings, tents, hobos. Its Dublin not Paris , its nearly funny how people just go for their early morning jogs. Its only going to get worse?

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293858#Comment_122293858

I can't understand how there isn't more protests in Dublin, you guys are getting hammered more than anywhere else in the country and this won't change because these economic migrants all want to live in Dublin.

Its a ridiculous situation handing them tents on arrival and having the council dump the same tents a few days later.

Assuming this migration pact is passed it will be another 2 years before it become live so who knows what the situation will be like by then.

Oxo Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285731#Comment_122285731

The recently elected representatives didn't have a say, even though it was enacted after the elections.

It's all about impressing Brussels for jobs after Irish politics. Also they get to point to Europe if anyone hassles them about immigrants going forward.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122288352#Comment_122288352

Treaties and pacts run both ways. If, for example, 10 countries centralised their asylum processing, then applicants in any of those countries could be centrally decided and the successful applicants pro-rated among them. Without that centralisation, the chancers could go to one after the other.

When the UK left the EU, they didn't sort out things with France regarding IP applicants. Because of the "dur dur, stop the invasion" crowd. They forgot to think that no deal on the topic also means no deal for France to take any of them back………….

animalinside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122294128#Comment_122294128

At this point the tents are the protests. Such apathy at YOUR TERRITORY. What's it going to take, them setting up in their front garden?

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122294159#Comment_122294159

I'm not buying that. Ireland at the extreme west periphery of Europe should by nature of geographical location alone not have such a large problem with migration.

The Greeks and Italians will be sending all their surplus. It will yet again relieve pressure to actually deal with the situation.

Any number of migrants more than zero is too many in a housing crisis. Why TF would we want fines for refusing to take them?!

Detention centres we can build. Deportation flights we can organize with Nigeria, Morocco etc.

I know there's no political will to do that now but in the future it is at least theoretically possible no-nonsense politicians with Ireland's interest at heart could be elected. It's our only hope for salvation.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285796#Comment_122285796

This is it, I abstained from voting because I couldn't vote for the incumbents and I couldn't being myself to vote for a loon. But now I feel I'll have to hold my nose and vote for people that disgust me.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296903#Comment_122296903

Read it again.

Under the current system, a person who fails in their claim for asylum in Italy can come to Ireland and start their claim from zero again. That is why there should be some centralization. Additionally, in order to send such a person back to Italy, Italy has to accept them. You need agreements for such matters.

There is a big difference between a Nigerian fella unilaterally deciding to get on a plane from Dublin to Rome on false papers and the Irish authorities trying to expel the same fella against his wishes to Italy when Italy refuses to accept him.

What you are seemingly in favour of - whether you realise it or not - is a continuation of the status quo of disjointed, never-ending, multiple chances for any IP applicant to chance their arm over and over again in different EU countries.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285796#Comment_122285796

The strongest possible mandate is one to which there is no credible alternative because, well, there's no credible alternative to the mandated policy.

It's commonly the case in politics (and, indeed, in other areas of life) that there is a difficult problem to which all feasible solutions are unpalatable in one way or another. In this situation populist politicians will frequently suggest a solution which is simple, attractive and unfeasible. If the voters look through the simplicity and the attractiveness to spot the unfeasibility and vote accordingly — well, that's a mature civic democracy working exactly as a mature civic democracy should work.

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296977#Comment_122296977

You said it in your reply yourself . A Nigerian traveling on "false papers".

We don't need to accept "false papers" and can fine airlines as a deterrent for not detecting false papers.

There's all kinds of biometrics on passports possible these days. No excuse whatsoever for this.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297091#Comment_122297091

You mean the controls that are in place currently? Sure what are people complaining about if these foolproof solutions are in place already?

Try to work out the logistics of an Irish official forcing Italy to accept the Nigerian (without papers or visa) into Italy if there is no agreement. The Nigerian has no status in Italy. He is standing at the immigration desk in Dublin. He wants to claim asylum in Ireland. Why would Italy just volunteer to take him any more than if he left Dublin and traveled to Germany that Ireland would then decide to let him in?

(BTW, as an aside, it is actually perfectly allowed to travel on false papers if you are a genuine asylum seeker. That is the catch-22.)

creeper1

The day Italians accept illegal migrants from Ireland is the day pigs fly.

That's with or without any migration pact.

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297366#Comment_122297366

I think arrivals through official channels like Dublin airport CAN be managed. They would need to produce passport, visa etc. If the will is there they COULD be traced and identified. After all they've entered and left Schengen and entered the common travel area.

It's the ones coming through the north that Ireland has to deal with that prove more problematic.

Ultimately they may have arrived by dinghy in Dover. It could have been years ago as well.

Far more important is managing the common travel area. Perhaps making sure benefits are not any better than the UK. Perhaps negotiating a border going down the Irish sea. That would be a big concession so I'm not sure what would be offered in return.

I do feel the EU is secondary in this regard and there's the danger Ireland will receive a disproportionate number of AS due to inflated GDP.