Why are the government intent on forcing through the EU Migration Pact?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310822#Comment_122310822

You can roll out all the old excuses you want and that what you are doing! The fact remains the our democracy does not require us to talk into account how well failed candidates did in elections over the fact that they did not get elected.

Making up your own rules and getting upset when the voters don't agree with you is the path to disappointment.

SuperBowserWorld

People want house prices to continue to increase.

Nothing else matters.

Even when their kids can't afford the rent and they and their kids are paying tax and increasing the national debt to house people who never contributed anything.

House prices trump everything else.

That's it really.

People will absolutely destroy the country and defer to the EU so long as house prices keep going up. They will talk about democracy, but it's all about the money and pulling up that ladder on the way to heaven. People vote with their wallets not for some kind of Irish Shangri-La.

We've been bought and sold. A couple of times now in the past 20 years. 🤣🤣🤣

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310822#Comment_122310822

You seem a bit confused. One day you're dismissing the election results as being all about potholes. Then when it suits they take on this huge significance. Which is it? Since I'm sure you're more familiar with these anti-immigration candidates than most, how about dividing the number who actually got elected by 949 and multiply by a 100 and tell us the result.

Many of those TDs voting against the bill were doing so for very different reasons than you're suggesting

LetticebCivil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298763#Comment_122298763

He can say it because he shills all day online for FG

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310708#Comment_122310708

That's because the majority of the population do not fall into the three C categories.

Same as it was for the marriage and 8th referendums, some had the hard lesson that the voices in their head and bots do not have a vote.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311064#Comment_122311064

Do you acknowledge the fact that the president can refer any bill to the people? If this government thought public opinion on this matter was important, they could have framed this so as to allow the president call a referendum under Art 27.

But of course, the government would choose to do everything but that, as they know bloody well that it'd be rejected in resounding fashion.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311641#Comment_122311641

Do you acknowledge the fact that the president can refer any bill to the people? 

If over half the senate (a body that is built to have a government majority) and a third of the Dáil ask him to.

why would they ask him to though? It is a process that has never once been enacted. The government won't do it because why on earth would they? The entire point of representative democracy is to elect people to govern and not abdicate that responsibility to referenda which are completely incapable to dealing with inherently complicated matters (cf Brexit).

This is all just raging because you don't like the bill they have passed. Well, tough. This is how the legislative process works in Ireland and has worked for 100 years. There is an existing framework under the Crotty judgement for when referenda are required and absolutely no one thinks that this crosses that barrier.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311446#Comment_122311446

And as part of my training for said shilling I learnt about the history of Irish constitutional issues that provide us with uniquely strong protections which is why we are consistently one of the only, if not the only country to have to have a referendum on various EU treaties.

You can always take a case against the government that this bill violates the Crotty judgement if you are so concerned about the supposed transfer of sovereignty.

"They passed a bill that I think the majority of people probably wouldn't like" is not a constitutional crisis.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311641#Comment_122311641

You don't seem to understand what you're arguing against. I don't know how many more posts would be required for you to accept that. Maybe 100?

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309245#Comment_122309245

And i thought ya couldn’t get into the country without a passport and documents but hey. Rules and regulations seem to mean f all in the grand scheme of things of late. If it doesn't suit this big plan our elites have.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312096#Comment_122312096

Yeah, rules only apply to the peasants who pay the taxes. Want a build a house down a country lane, you'll need jump through multiple hoops, red tape, all taking many many months if not years. Want an ipas centre for hundreds of men , no problem, rip up the rule book and do as you please.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310945#Comment_122310945

They are a sophisticated electorate indeed.

They also chose to vote against the care/family referendums just a few months ago that were almost unanimously backed by both the government parties, and most of the opposition parties as well.

Strange you decided to omit that most recent example, but yet you did.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311700#Comment_122311700

"They passed a bill that I think the majority of people probably wouldn't like" is not a constitutional crisis.

We certainly couldn't have a majority of people turning down laws they don't like, could we?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312096#Comment_122312096

Perhaps "what you thought" and "rules and regulations" are not the same thing?

Tl;dr: what you thought was wrong. Do you think perhaps that you might have any responsibliity for that?

LV-426

Honestly if a referendum did take place what do ye think the outcome would be? At least with a referendum the pact would be debated and understood by people which it is not now.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313120#Comment_122313120

and understood by people

Ya reckon?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311721#Comment_122311721

Maybe you should explain your POV so, instead of trying the patronising patter approach…

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310822#Comment_122310822

Yes, some of those candidates did do better than party candidates but that doesn't alter the overall results and their failure to get elected - and that's what counts as it is the elected representatives that get to vote on proposed measures, not those that fail to get elected.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312284#Comment_122312284

We are a representative democracy for precisely that reason. No one would ever vote for a budget raising their taxes - until there was another budgetary crisis and the IMF were telling us that they wouldn't loan us a red cent unless we stopped messing around and did what we were told.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313120#Comment_122313120

The quality of our referenda on anything EU related is always extremely poor. They degenerate into ridiculous scaremongering about the "EU Army" and other items that aren't in the Treaties - all of which is completely irrelevant since we are never actually asked about the content of the treaty, rather we are asked "Do we agree that the Oireachtas may ratify it?" if the Oireachtas so chooses - and indeed as the constitution specifies they should with all international treaties. Our governments literally use a blunderbuss approach to ratify EU Treaties as they have never bothered to hold a referendum to create a better approach to ratifying EU Treaties.

Angeleena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313120#Comment_122313120

Agree. It's ridiculous that the FG coalition are shoving this through. Then the useless politicians will hide behind "It's our legal obligations …. " blah blah blah, every time they are criticised for too many asylum seekers in the country.

Angeleena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312197#Comment_122312197

Why don't they just build these places to house the homeless? They can house bogus asylum seekers but they can't house the homeless?

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317836#Comment_122317836

How do you know if the asylum seekers are bogus or not? Are you suggesting there isn’t a war going on in Ukraine for instance?

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317830#Comment_122317830

The debate, discussions and democratic votes on the pact’s legislation already took place at EU level.

Our democratically elected government were happy to support the resulting package on behalf of (everyone in) Ireland.

Why would you expect our government to suddenly turn around and vote in the Oireachtas against something they voted in favour of at EU level? You do realise they’d face court cases in the CJEU and/or the Supreme Court, and if they did so, and the resulting fines would be picked up by the taxpayers, don’t you?

Ozvaldo

They left our irish homeless on the streets for years not giving a flying fcuk abt them -what changed to offer free apartments to economic migrants ?

Francie Barrett

https://x.com/LFJIreland/status/1806838942185996734

"Every country is entitled to have its own migration policy but I certainly don't intend to allow anyone else's migration policy affect the integrity of our own one" Taoiseach Simon Harris

Simon Harris lying again.

Ozvaldo

I see irish homeless sleeping in door ways why are they not getting tents and free gaffs ?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318878#Comment_122318878

Utter nonsense. There is nothing in the treaties of Rome nor the Irish constitution to support such a claim.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317836#Comment_122317836

Because the voters have no intention of voting to make themselves poorer. If house prices fall the vast majority of households in the country will find themselves in negative equity facing a call by the banks to inject more equity in their mortgage. So the only acceptable solution for the voters is one in which they all get to own a house, while house prices keep rising.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122319694#Comment_122319694

If house prices fall the vast majority of households in the country will find themselves in negative equity facing a call by the banks to inject more equity in their mortgage

This is not something banks do.

It is very true that people obviously don't want to go into negative equity - though frankly for the majority of people what we are talking about is more slight devaluation of an asset that has already appreciated massively and not negative equity at all. They're still completely irrational about it though.