Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his commanding officer, avoids jail.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286254#Comment_122286254

Fully agree with you!

He should in Prison, but for some reason he's not. And there are ALOT of people who should be in prison in this country and are not.

And what it boils down to is having somewhere to put them.

Example: There's a well known little scrote in D2 who at the age of 16 had racked up over 116 convictions for burglary, assault, theft, etc. (This was pre covid). A judge sentenced him to 5 years for something he did at the age of 16 citing "You're going to kill someone". Garda rang Oberstown, who said they had no space for him. He stayed in Jail at Pearse Street station for a week and they had to let him go, because they don't have the facilities to keep someone long term.

As a Victim fighting for justice in our legal system, that's what you're up against.

It's not just judges making poor calls or character references, it's the whole damn thing. The legal system is effectively part of the infra in Ireland and as with the rest of the Infra in Ireland, it is inadequate.

Edit: Just to add to this. the DPP do not lead the prosecution in cases like this. For cases like this it's the arresting Garda who leads the prosecution. so you effectively have a Garda up against a senior legal expert (Solicitor/Barrister - probably paid for by the taxpayer) in court…. like it's wonder we get any convictions at all, let alone proper sentences. Ireland is the one of the only countries in the world where this happens. The DPP only get involved very serious cases (murder, etc)

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286357#Comment_122286357

that was one minor detail of the media coverage i was seeing; several stories referring to crotty as an officer; a term i had previously assumed that journalists understood the meaning of, but clearly not.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286193#Comment_122286193

I’m not sure why you are so agitated about Togher’s choice of words. I think that “exceptionally disappointed” sounds like a professionally worded description of his feelings on the matter. The lasd thing you need is trained military personell to lose their composure and give way to emotive displays. I think you are angry at the wrong person here.

well24

Hopefully some vigilante kicks the sh*t outta him, that would be justice..

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286461#Comment_122286461

Not agitated at all. Just observant.

And why exactly is the last thing we need for a member of the defence forces to be too “emotive?” Would our National security become vulnerable or something?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286174#Comment_122286174

So he has to report back to his senior officers, grand.

Why did he have to address the court? What has that got to do with reporting back to the defence forces?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286486#Comment_122286486

No, but you don’t want them to make decisions based on personal feelings, do you? The same way you want a surgeon to remain detached and keep a cool head.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286276#Comment_122286276

On the face of it the mitigation in this case is quite high.

Guilty plea, his young age, first time offence, his background and work history. It wouldn't be unique that a suspended sentence was handed out in these circumstances.

The judge was correct when he stated the case could drag on for another year or 2, but the claim that the victim was spared the hassle of a trial is an assumption. She could have welcomed a trial to get every detail of what he did on the record. She seems a very strong person. It's not clear in the article but she appears to suggest she would have welcomed a trial, that she was traumatised anyway.

There was multiple witnesses and the attack was recorded, so the Judge should have gave him zero for a guilty plea. Even considering the cost and timing. Guilty pleas should definitely be rewarded, but this isn't one of them.

The aggregating factors in this case are immense. Young lady walking home from her job attacked. That is about as serious as it gets in terms of circumstances. The sustained brutality of the assault and the resulting physical and mental injuries pushing this again into the higher bracket of seriousness.

But what certainly pushes it into a custodial sentence is 2 factors. The fact he grabbed her hair, effectively held the back of her head as he punched her, that's how you kill someone, your head cannot go backwards to at least minimise the blows.

And the icing on the cake for me was gloating on social media "hours later". What sort of fúcking cretin gloats about beating up a girl to his friends?

The DPP should definitely appeal it if they actually have grounds to do so.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286479#Comment_122286479

It wouldn't be justice at all - the judge in this trial is still free to go on making horrendous judgements like this as he has in past and will likely continue to do.

At this stage it's judges who are denying justice to victims. The untouchable legal caste

SeanW

I think we need a mechanism to impeach judges in this country over madness like this. It's absolutely insane. As to the Army - WTF? Are they trying to emulate the Russian Army or something? Giving cover for violent sociopaths is something I'd expect from the Russians as they need bodies for their insane war of aggression in Ukraine, but what on Earth are officers of the Irish army trying to accomplish here?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285055#Comment_122285055

In Fairness you are doing a daily Mail on it .

He was asked how was crottys army time up to that, he answered as required, he also said he was extremely shocked, sickened and appalled by Crottys actions that night, as we all are.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286432#Comment_122286432

It just makes a show of the country that this even happened in court. Makes us look very backward. The member of the defence forces doing that in court just adds insult to injury. Everything about the case is just a damning indictment of the judicial system and the defence forces come out looking terrible here too in my view. Horrific stuff all round.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286507#Comment_122286507

Nailed it here with the nuts n bolts of the case.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286499#Comment_122286499

No idea what you are on about.

He's a human, not a fooking robot. So what if he is a member of the defence forces. Does this preclude him from saying he was horrified and disgusted that a man could batter a woman like what Crotty did? No, he was disappointed…….says a lot about the individual who stood up with the glowing words of commendation for Crotty

Your point has no relevance.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286380#Comment_122286380

That is a myth.

Murder is a complete life sentence but rarely does that sentence get served custodially.

A parole board will always take into account a guilty plea, understanding of ones crime and effects on the victims, etc.

jj880

Jaysus this thread would make ye wonder what kind of country we're living in regarding the authorities and people in general. We have a report from a prison worker that says judges have been told not to jail scumbags like this. Another report from an ex army member saying it's optional for commanding officers to give a character reference. Christ almighty.

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286510#Comment_122286510

True, but some form of rough justice for this scrote..

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286539#Comment_122286539

And I don’t understand why you are so upset by his choice of words, just because they are not the ones you’d have chosen yourself. It’s not a reflection on his character.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286193#Comment_122286193

You don't get the whole legal obligations and under oath thing.

So if the Judge or a barrister had asked you to read out Crottys army reviews to date. You would have told him to jump.

Crotty would buy you a pint..

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286563#Comment_122286563

I think it is a reflection. First reflection is the very fact that he made a conscious decision to stand up in court to give a character reference BEFORE a decision was made, and knowing full well what this man did to that woman.

He was not compelled to do this. Then, his reference is all about how good:upstanding this man was as a soldier. The reference has to impact and resonate in the judgment in this case. Oh, but I guess he did add that he was disappointed…

So yes, an absolute reflection on what type person Togher is

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286569#Comment_122286569

Why was he legally obligated to speak in court?

Danzy

When you are called as a witness. You have to go.

When the judge or a barrister asks you to read out the soldiers history to date, you have to answer.

The reason this crotty shi7 is out is that there is no jail places. We have had 25 years of rich progressives talking about no more hang em high Judges, mitigating factors of social oppression and exclusion, that jail is not the best recourse but is "regressive".

As for the person above saying that suspended sentences are not usually given out for such brutal assaults. Where have you been hiding?

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286360#Comment_122286360

Wrong.

Plenty of suspended sentences for assault, of course, but none for an unprovoked attacked which put a complete stranger in hospital. In the case you linked to even the prosecution agreed there was provocation - an earlier argument.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286569#Comment_122286569

Where was it that Togher had to attend and speak in court? As a citizen of the state, what in this case was it that Togher absolutely had to attend court and give that reference? Am I missing something?

Anyway, I stand by my assertion: I'd ether refuse to attend or attend and say I have nothing to say about this animal….and I'd accept the consequences of that.

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285475#Comment_122285475

Sure.

The judge specifically said the €3,000 was "without prejudice to any civil action that may be taken in the future." Which means it will have no bearing on any litigation she may choose to take.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286589#Comment_122286589

Called by defense .

I had to testify in court previously and it was clear on the summons that I would be brought to court if not attending.

I was for the defense and secured a conviction against a drugged up scrote who beat up a neighbour and punched a 80 year old woman.

I have no doubt that he would have killed the neighbour if I hadn't intervened, the guard arresting him said he was the most out of it he had ever seen.

He was already inside at the time of the Court case and is out now. Got out early and didn't serve time for that particular incident

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286603#Comment_122286603

Crotty would buy you 2 pints.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286444#Comment_122286444

I believe this is a mistake by the media, they almost use the word "officer" like you might call a policeman "officer" rather than him actually having a commision.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286617#Comment_122286617

You'll need to elaborate. Why would Crotty buy me two pints for refusing to provide a glowing reference for him, or for standing up to say I have nothing to say about this animal?

Babyreignbow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286461#Comment_122286461

Togher's description of an "exemplary, courteous, professional and disciplined" soldier will echo around the tribunal chambers when it comes to the credibility of the testimony of the DF in response to the allegations of abuse suffered by women at the hands of serving men. Afaic the defence forces have shot themselves in the foot, quite literally.