Is everybody broke?

Geuze

The data I have presented so far is mainly about earnings and income.

Here is data from a different survey, on assets / wealth:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hfcs/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey2020/

Geuze

Here is net wealth data by decile:

Geuze

Here is wealth data by type of household:

Median net wealth is 193k, but the mean is 354k.

Mrs OBumble

I do get the feeling that some people have gone a bit celtic-tiger-ish, spending up on cocktails etc because they cannot spend on property.

At the same time, it's early July and in weeknight evenings, many Galway city pubs are unusually quiet for this time of year. There are very few "staff wanted" signs up around town (unusual for July), and those that do appear are taken down quite quickly.

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334743#Comment_122334743

Yes I think having a budget planner / spreadsheet is hugely important, especially if money is a bit tight. It takes a bit of time to get on top of spending patterns but after a while it becomes quite predictable and most things can be planned for month to month and year to year.

We didn’t do this for a couple of years after we got married and it came to a head at one stage when we were trying to juggle rent, childcare etc etc and basically ran out of money. I had to take a term loan to get out of that hole and vowed never to let it happen again so that’s when I started to plan and take more control.

If anybody is finding things tight it’s the single biggest step you can take in order to improve your situation IMO.

lisasimpson

Wwould kind of agree with the above prob some feel well what's all the hard work for if it'll never afford a house I might as well enjoy myself.throw in the lock downs some probably feel they are making up for thing.

There will be others no matter how much they earn will always be broke as they just don't have financial disapline. Overheard a guy at work complain recently he can't get a mortgage cos he I'd on his own while had freshly filled lips and botox done. Same guy on a decent wage living on home.

I think more people are beginning to feel a pinch now. I know some teenagers starting to find it harder to get parttime work compared to recent year

AndyBoBandy

I put together an Excel spreadsheet to monitor spending on groceries when Covid happened as prior to Covid, we would randomly share paying for the groceries when we went shopping.. When Covid kicked in, I exclusively went and did all the shopping, so I was paying for it all so we decided the fairest way to split things 50/50 was to use a spreadsheet to note all joint household expenditure.

It was actually eye opening as before the spreadsheet I was probably paying for 70-80% of the grocery shopping! We've kept it going now on a monthly basis and everything is split 50/50 down the middle..

When we started doing the spreadsheet we mostly shopped in Tesco, and for the most part would have been always buying branded goods (pasta, rice, cereals, cheese, ham etc…), but over the last 2 years or so have mostly* transitioned to own brand goods, and also started doing a weekly 'big' shop' in Lidl (actually find their meats superior in quality to Tesco), but because we have the spreadsheet, I can see that we aren't really spending much less than we were since 2020, so I guess thats the measure of inflation, and I understand that had we not changed our shopping patterns, our spending would have increased a lot… - I'm just pi$$ed off we didn't start doing this sooner, not because things were tight and we needed to, but rather toavoid paying over the odds for essentially the same products.. (switching from Roma spaghetti to Tesco/Lidl spaghetti - absolutely zero difference once it's seasoned right (pinch of salt and a vegetable stock pot)

*there are certain things where only the branded item will suffice for us

csirl

The squeezed middle are really getting hammered. Have taken cost of living increases, inflation etc on the chin with no support or relief from government. In tandem, there has been a noticeble decrease in the availability or standard of public services they rely on. They are also subsidising everyone else - the low or unwaged and high earners who can avoid tax.

Im going to give a couple of interesing examples of how government policy has hit them with the wealthy benefitting.

The fuel crisis has seen petrol/deisel rise in price. Government reaction is to subsidise electric vehicles, with a focus on company cars. So squeezed middle person in a 10 year old hatchback's taxes are subsidising the new Tesla company car given to the company executive. This also reduces the company executives outgoings- electric cars are cheaper to tun.

Example 2. People are being hammered by gas prices. So the squeezed middle person who cant afford to refit their house is having their taxez subsidise retro fitting of wealthy peoples houses - which reduces their heating costs, while the squeezed middle person cant afford their gas bill.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337707#Comment_122337707

Well theres budgeting and there is taking it to the extreme! I assume you are part of a couple. Splitting the groceries 50/50 is taking household budgeting a little too far IMO. But if it works for you fair enough.

Your post gave me a little giggle. I cannot imagine splitting everything 50/50 in our house and saying to my husband every day what he owes me and vice versa. I think it would get very annoying.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337734#Comment_122337734

Well it's not as bad as that…. at the end of the month I populate the spreadsheet, and send it to herself… it's hard to track cash transactions, but probably 99% of spending is done by card, so easy to track and record… and there'll always be the odd random bits here and there that don't make it onto the spreadsheet, but by and large most of our expenditure does, and yeah, it works for us…

It was actually herself that was more up for it as she earns more than me and when we discovered that I was paying a lot more than half for groceries she insisted we manage it better so I'm not losing out…

Never underestimate the power of a spreadsheet… I had another that was monitoring our mortgage balance (which we were overpaying), and if ever any motivation was ever needed to continue overpaying (by almost 150%), looking at the balance reduce as quick as it was reducing was all the motivation we needed…

This is it

Would you not be better with a joint account and a card each. Transfer X amount each month into the joint account, all joint expenses come from that. Mortgage, shopping, bills, etc.

Obviously you'll have times where one will pay for a take away, or the other pay for a night away, but a joint account for day to day expenses is best for us at least.

AndyBoBandy

I guess we're happy enough without a joint account (it's just another card that needs to be held, and another account that needs to be maintained/paid for)… mortgage is paid off (it was solely in my name), bills are in my name and I'm happy enough to pay them… when she receives the spreadsheet, she'll deduct 50% of whatever she's bought the previous month from the final amount..

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337722#Comment_122337722

The squeezed middle are also paying for the upgrades on houses for lower income and social welfare recipient's, through the free upgrade scheme, squeezed from all sides

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337624#Comment_122337624

Sensible advice. It’s amazing how much you CAN spend over the course of the year on ad-hoc purchases - even if you like a drink and drink at home more so than the pub, just to save money-even 1 bottle of wine less a week is 500 squid a year straight away.

Eating a vegetarian pasta dish at least once a week instead of choosing to eat a meal containing meat can save you a few hundred euro a year - looking at your weekly spending habits (we all have them) and multiplying them by 50 can show you just what you can save with a little behavioural adjustment

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337816#Comment_122337816

Nuts to me, but if it works for you that's the main thing!

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337823#Comment_122337823

…this is a perception of being free, low waged and the unemployed also pay taxes, via consumption related taxes, the squeezed middle are indeed getting hammered though, particularly in relation to property, rent and mortgages, financialisation of our property markets has been a monumental failure, its also important to note, most tax revenue is via corporate tax receipts at the moment……

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337771#Comment_122337771

Fair enough, but if she is earning more than you its not fair that you are paying 50% of everything.

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337847#Comment_122337847

Yes I think we can all make savings, how many of us have unnecessary entertainment subscriptions, haven’t moved utility providers in years, don’t meal plan or shop around for groceries etc.? These costs all add up

That is not to make light of the fact that many people are finding things very hard and are genuinely struggling

The biggest issue for a lot of people now and in to the future is housing as somebody else said earlier in the thread. Anybody who is spending a disproportionate amount of their income on housing is going to be having a very tough time, and no spreadsheet will fix that

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337949#Comment_122337949

Totally - I don’t at all envy people starting out or indeed in the midst of a large mortgage or monthly rent agreement - I see over in the motors forum people are scratching their heads wondering why more people aren’t buying new EVs - well, considering the rate increases and general cost of living over the last few years along with the increases in the price of basic new cars, no less EVs, a lot of people who managed to achieve a new car purchase can no longer do so- and since new car purchase rates dictate secondhand values, even second hand cars are now stupidly expensive

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337917#Comment_122337917

With couples it’s often swings and roundabouts and it generally works out ok (for me anyway)

My best advice for couples is commit as much as you can to long term savings and maximise your pension contributions where possible- even if it’s a 70/30 split in terms of contribution based on different salaries/income- in the long run a properly managed investment fund will be worth it to you both.

This means that even if you’re left with very little discretionary spending you know you have savings growing in the background - there’s a lot of temptation out there to spend unnecessarily

This is it

We're comfortable at the moment but that'll change pretty quickly with twins on the way.

We're both on decent salaries, have decent savings, have a manageable mortgage, but we definitely spend far too much on things we don't need, or for convenience.

The next year or so will be fine but once childcare comes into it things will be tight. The plan is to reduce spending now and have ourselves "trained" by the time childcare becomes a factor.

I have a spreadsheet ready to go, we just haven't started on it yet, but I think it's a good approach.

Creamy Goodness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337734#Comment_122337734

we split 50/50 groceries too, but it's more a; you get this week, I'll get the following week. If there's a week where we need to replenish expensive things like dishwasher/washinng machine stuff, I'll pick that up.

I pay all other bills (bins, tv, subscriptions, life assurance, serious illness cover, electricity (no gas)) and mortgage as there's a disparity in our salaries, it works out well in that it spreads the cost but without having to go down to the exact cent.

We're not joint account people either, we both felt strongly about that for various reasons, we are joint account holders in terms of savings and mortgage etc.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337917#Comment_122337917

For us it's fair… She put down a €20k deposit for our car 4 years ago, she also gave me €10k towards buying a boat 2 years before that, and she pretty much paid for the attic conversion 10 years ago (~€20k), and now she's also paying for a house we (she) bought in her home country in Lithuania 2 years ago… though we jointly dropped about €10k each to furnish it…

On the flip side when we bought our house in Ireland (for €250k), we only needed to borrow €165k as I put in €85k up front (savings) as well as furnished the house.. so given whats gone before, we are perfectly happy splitting everything else 50/50..

It works for us… but I'm under no illusions as to how lucky we are to have decent paying jobs where we bring in a combined ~€150k (though we fcuking work hard for it), and we fully understand how extreeeeeeeeeeeemely lucky we were to buy when we bought (2014), as house prices in our estate are north of €500k again (with our upgrades (solar PV, attic), coupled with the sea view, I would expect at least €550k if we sold tomorrow).

(as I type this now she's across the hall in her office deducting her spend from the sheet I sent her).

We have 1 son (and plan to have no more children), and the long term plan is we retire off to Lithuania and he gets this house (but hopefully Russia don't fcuk up that plan)….

El Gato De Negocios

Not broke but not exactly flush either. I'm on an 6 figure salary but my wife is on a career break so mortgage, loan repayment, insurances, utilities, groceries etc are all on me. I have a 5 and a 7 year old too so summer camps and other activities need to be covered. I have about 8k in a savings account but that's earmarked for landscaping that's going on at the house currently.

My car is 14 years old, hers is 8 years old, no foreign holidays this year or last but we will go to centre parks in December.

Averaging around €200 per week on groceries for the 4 of us.

Everything has gone so effin expensive and even earning the salary I earn, more often than not I'm using the credit card the week before pay day.

Genuinely don't know how people on low salaries are managing tbh.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338008#Comment_122338008

We're both on decent salaries, have decent savings, have a manageable mortgage, but we definitely spend far too much on things we don't need, or for convenience.

I would highly advise anyone in this position to use the below calculator to see how much you could save, even by making a modest overpayment… (Of course I'm aware that not everyone can do this, but for anyone that can, its a no brainer)

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/money-tools/extra-mortgage-payments-calculator/

Example, 20 years left and €200k outstanding with an interest rate of 4%, by simply overpaying by €100 per month, you take 2years & 3 months off the remaining term, and save €11k in interest!!

When we took out our mortgage the projected interest over the 20 year term was €80,000 but in the end it was only €31k, so we saved €49k by paying off early.

so less than €25 per week and look at the dent it can make in your mortgage…. (probably less than the cost of your weekly takeaway).

pay an extra €200pm and you take 4 years off the term, and save €20k in interest!!

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338125#Comment_122338125

Absolutely! We're on a fixed term at the moment (only bought last year) and ptsb won't let us over pay, but we throw a few €€ by each month so we can make a lump sum payment when the fixed is up, and will continue to over pay after that.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338125#Comment_122338125

I wouldn't advise people to look at paying off the mortgage early to be brutally honest. It's probably the cheapest loan you will ever get and it's an investment. That takeaway, those couple of pints or an ice cream for the kids are what makes life worth living. the little things. Usually by the time someone reaches a certain age an extra couple of years on their mortgage won't make a difference to them anyway because the big ticket items like raising children will be off the books.

I'd certainly advise people to cut out or slim down on stuff they don't really need that won't affect the quality of their lives. Then spend the savings on holidays or days out with the family.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338165#Comment_122338165

We only ever went variable as the idea all along was to overpay overpay overpay…

Initial rate was 4.3% (Bank of Ireland), then when the LTV was down below 60%, I got them to reduce the rate to 3.9% (their lowest published variable rate at the time), then in 2018 I called them and told them I was going to move to AIB (who were offering 2.65% variable for >50% LTV + €2k moving fee's) unless they did something for me as I knew I was a good customer (regular overpayments), so the next day they put me on an unpublished rate of 3.4% which I was happy enough to stay on with BoI…

If you don't ask, you don't get….

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338037#Comment_122338037

We have a household bills account which is easy to manage - we’ve agreed amounts that each contribute every month- then the grocery and utility bills just all come out of that - there’s usually a bit of a float going in summer that then covers the increased winter bills so we don’t tend to go near it from one end of the year to the other.

We try and keep the weekly grocery bill steady every week - any additional ad hoc items like bread or milk are just paid for ourselves throughout the week

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338172#Comment_122338172

…so maintaining a high level of debt as you age isnt really a problem, and the health of those involved wont change with time, possibly requiring one or both to temporally leave employment in order to deal with such issues!

…pay off your mortgage asap folks, age can sometimes radically change circumstances!