I drive 40,000 km/year: Is an EV a bad idea

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337782#Comment_122337782

I think thats his point. You've paid basically nothing to service the car

I'm about to pay €525 for the "4 year/60k" service on my Ioniq 38, and that was the lowest quote I got off 6 different dealers (some quoted €1000 for it). The 4 year/ 60k service is especially expensive because they replace the battery coolant

To maintain the warranty on the Ioniq it needs to get serviced every 15k KM or 1 year (which ever comes first).

I would imagine the 4 services required in 60k or 4 years of driving the ioniq costs the guts of €1000 if not more. (I don't know the actual figure as I only got the car this year)

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337782#Comment_122337782

There have been examples of high enough servicing costs posted on here. I'm pretty sure I've seen €500 quoted and iirc this was Hyundai. Not 100% on that and the search function here is so bad, it's hard to find them, but that's my (hazy) recollection.

On the other hand, some brands include free servicing in the first three years. Volvo springs to mind, but again would need to check.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337525#Comment_122337525

Definitely a better choice as a diesel replacement, it's a balmy 11° outside, just after dropping the kids to camp.

Red Silurian

I think the main reason for low mileage EVs is because 2-3 years ago they were much more expensive and only really available brand new, so tended to be bought by people in more affluent areas of the country such as the Dublin leafy suburbs. These drivers didn't have the same long commutes to work as other parts of the country so were only used for the school runs or the weekly shops

Fast forward to today and EVs are much more accessible to the regular Joe so in a few years time that will be reversed

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337782#Comment_122337782

other makes than Tesla, they all require "servicing"

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337782#Comment_122337782

So no warranty related serving required

byrne249

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058358291/i-drive-40-000-km-year-is-an-ev-a-bad-idea

I bought pre reg last year. Given a 6k discount on new it's still down 8k in places and trade in is even worse. The trade off however is huge savings on petrol. I've done 28k kms in a year. Overall outlay is already down at worst 3k and at best 5k over keeping the old one. Based on 1k to get through NCT(keep it roadworthy), tax, measured fuel savings of 2k+ and the scrap value of the car etc.

In this case I think the more driving I get in the better my return. If these cars do the 1000-2000 cycles expected before serious degradation takes hold we're talking 300-600k km cars(on a conservative 300km cycle range) with little work, That's the theory I'm going to aim to test anyway.

People are acclimated to the endless nonsense and problems that ICE cars produce and so sometimes the obvious solutions are lost to unconcious biases. ICE cars are always getting repaired is my experience

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338310#Comment_122338310

I never had my Leafs serviced 😁

in 7 years of ownership of the 2014 Leaf, I had the shim-kit done for the rear wheel issue on the early Sunderland cars at no cost to me. I had the brake fluid flushed at about 120k klms and the original pads were on it when I sold it earlier this year. Tyres and wiper blades and a couple of LED fog bulbs changed in that period. No normal servicing whatsoever.

Similar on the 2012 Leaf we had for 5 years. I think a set of pads, but not sure. Nothing else apart from rubber. The heater never worked though. Never bothered with the horrible job of changing out the resistive heater, because it may have needed a fuse replaced in the DC-DC converter. Not a serviceable item either.

Megastreisand

Here are my thoughts as someone who has done c 34k p/a. If you can charge at home on mostly cheap night rate electricity you will save anywhere from €2.5k - €4k in fuel bills. Your daily longest journey is under 300km otherwise you're going to have to deal with public charging which could negate alot of fuel savings. I would be looking for an efficient EV with the biggest battery you can afford.

slave1

We had our Leaf "serviced" for 4/5 years as it was only €77 at main Nissan dealer, just peace of mind for warranty

Happy_Harry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338310#Comment_122338310

I honestly didn't know that.. I guess you learn something every day. It baffles me though.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338684#Comment_122338684

Well EVs have brakes, suspensions and also cooling systems. Other basic stuff like wipers and cabin filters that have to be changed from time to time.

And then having a checkup for any errors or warnings.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336807#Comment_122336807

curious, what happens in 7-8 when you’ve a car with useless battery. Will it be worth anything?

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338733#Comment_122338733

8 year battery warranty.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338733#Comment_122338733

You won't have a useless battery, a cell might need replacing not the whole thing. They'll get a lot cheaper as time moves on https://evshop.eu/en/batteries/1064-24kwh-6s2p-ioniq-5-battery-module.html

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338733#Comment_122338733

Same thing that happens to a 3-year old car when the engine becomes useless

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339457#Comment_122339457

Worse. A 50% degraded 24kWh battery could run your house for a day.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339754#Comment_122339754

Oh yes, very easily, assuming you have the tech know-how to fit it the only real problem is finding a car battery with that much degradation. Closest I've seen is a 2014 Nissan Leaf with 75% degradation for example

AndyBoBandy

I've a Model 3 with a 49kWh battery (which is tiny by todays standards), 93,000km done in just over 4 years, and have noticed no discernible difference in the car now to back when it was new.. There will have been some battery degradation as it does happen, but it mostly happens early on in the batteries life, so at a guess I reckon mine is at 95% capacity* now, but after that initial degradation, the rate of degradation slows massively (I might lose another 5% over the next 150,000km)..

*I don't have the means to accurately measure battery degradation, nor do I care to do so as the car still feels as good as it did when new, and might only ever get charged past 80% a few times a year, so it's not something that ever concerns me.

Essentially, all that stuff about batteries needing replacing etc is all b0ll0x.. a 600km range car today, even if it lost 40% of its capacity (which would be extremely unlikely, but lets assume it's had a horrid life), is still a 400km car in 10-15 years… and if serious degradation ever does kick in, all its gonna really mean is a few more charging stops on those really long journeys, but day to day, you'll never notice it.

If my Model 3's battery degraded by 90%, it would still cover about 85% of our needs..

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339754#Comment_122339754

yea but I’d need it to run a car. What’s the life expectancy of a battery?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339919#Comment_122339919

Depending on chemistry anywhere between 1,000 and 3,000 cycles. Roughly speaking multiply the usable range of the car by 1,000 and that's how long the battery should last. 3,000 if it's an LFP battery.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339930#Comment_122339930

and when they’re done what’ll the resale be?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340302#Comment_122340302

Hmm, considering you're talking about 1,200,000 km on the clock I'm guessing a resale value of **** all

Which is about what you'd expect from a car with over 1 million kilometres done

The diesel equivalent, meanwhile, is on it's 6th engine rebuild, 12th DPF filter change and 400th oil change 😜

It's also burnt 39 tonnes of diesel over that distance

MojoMaker

After - give or take - 900,000 kms and say 40 years (at average Irish driving levels)?

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337575#Comment_122337575

It is but it’s not €10K-€12K nicer. If you’re mostly charging at home on night rate, 800v won’t be any advantage unless you’re on a bar stool trying to impress the ladies…

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340302#Comment_122340302

I'm not really in a position to predict the resale value on my cars battery by the time it reaches 3,000 cycles. Based on my first year of mileage it should be in about 42 years. I suspect 40 year old former automotive batteries from 2023 won't be worth very much in the 2060s.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340632#Comment_122340632

I’ve heard loads of people saying the batteries only last 9-10 years. Is there any truth in this?

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340636#Comment_122340636

None, pub talk

Admldj

Have had a Jaguar I-pace for 2 years now, in that time I've ran up 80k on it and it has been faultless, serviced 3 times since I bought it at €220 a time in Jag dealer and a set of tyres that have 50k on them and are all at 4mm at the minute.

I'll keep the car for at least another 3 years partly due to crazy depreciation and partly due to the fact I've yet to find an EV to match it (for me that is) by that time it will be around the 250k mark and I'm as confident of its ability to get there as I have been with any car I've ever had.

A used EV like this can be had at a serious markdown from the new price and should give you years of effortless motoring, as others have said, max range is less important than daily range, when you start to think about "refueling" your car in the same way as you would your phone, you'll wonder how you ever bothered with diesel.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340636#Comment_122340636

It's much more complex than putting a simple timespan on a battery.

If you look at a 2011 Nissan Leaf it had an NMC based battery (1,000 cycles) and a usable range of 125km giving an expected life of 125,000km. With that I think it's fair to say some of those cars will have a battery that has "worn out" within 9 to 10 years.

Now compare that to Kona from 2020, similar battery chemistry so also 1,000 cycles but now the battery is bigger so can go further each cycle. It's battery had a usable range of 390km giving it an expected life of 390,000km. Not many people will be doing 39,000km a year to wear that out in 10 years.