Bus drivers and cyclists

Patrick2010

Saw an interesting exchange between a bus driver and a cyclist while walking home through Kimmage yesterday evening. Few passengers at a stop signal the bus to stop. Bus driver indicates to pull in , meanwhile a cyclist in the cycle lane (its a painted on road type) arrives from behind shouting at the bus because he believed the bus driver pulled into the cycle lane. Hard to tell if he did, looked like he was just on the edge. Cue a heated argument between driver and cyclist that went on for a while. Eventually passengers got on and cyclist took off, cycling at a snails pace in the middle of the road in front of bus causing a big tailback of traffic. What is the correct procedure here?, should the cyclist have stayed behind the bus seeing it was pulling in?. Would be interested to hear from bus drivers and cyclists.

Smee_Again

Devil is in the detail.

Did the bus overtake the cyclist and then pull in or was the cyclist gaining on the bus who then indicated and pulled in?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342198#Comment_122342198

Exactly.

Bear in mind - 'exactly on the edge' of the cycle lane does not leave much room. Cycle lanes are only a metre wide. Cyclists are in the middle of them. Exactly on the edge is 30 cm away. The wing mirror maybe closer. Horrible experience for cyclist.

Good practice is 1.5mn gap - and when I say good practice, really to avoid accidents.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342198#Comment_122342198

Bus was about two bus lengths ahead of the cyclist when the indicator went on

bk

The answer to this is proper infrastructure.

Cycle lanes should always go behind the bus stop, so there is no interaction between cyclists and buses at stops.

TheChizler

Was the bus driver just after overtaking the cyclist?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342311#Comment_122342311

Not possible here

https://maps.app.goo.gl/6zSafMbXa8djsSdk7

o1s1n

As a cyclist you can't undertake a bus as it's pulling into a stop in front of you.

If there's a bus indicating to go into a stop and you're behind it, you can only stop and wait or overtake.

Sounds like the bus overtook the cyclist and then immediately pulled into the stop, meaning the cyclist has to act fast and unfortunately undertook which is really dangerous.

Bus drivers should know better not to do this but it happens to me fairly regularly on my cycle commute unfortunately.

Tombo2001

There is a bit of a contradiction with bike lanes, or they can send a mixed message - it being "if I am not in the bike lane, therefore I am entitled to over take".

The problem is that a lot of bike lanes are barely the width of a bike handlebar, and just because you are not driving into the bike lane - it doesnt mean its safe to overtake. But drivers dont see it that way.

Having said that - its really not quite clear what happened here. 'Bus was two meters ahead of cyclist when it indicated'….margin for error there is pretty low.

BeerNut

I do that whole stretch from Harolds Cross Park to KCR by bike every day and you just need to be careful. The minutiae of the rules of the road aren't very helpful when you have cycle tracks running through bus stops, parked cars and narrow streets. When there's a bus that's two bus-lengths ahead of me indicating in, I'm checking if it's safe to go out around it and if it's not I'm stopping behind it and waiting for it to pull out. At that stop, I'm assuming that every bus ahead of me will be stopping, whether it's currently indicating or not.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342459#Comment_122342459

Wasn’t two meters

SteM

Imho 2 bus lengths is plenty of time for the cyclist to adjust their road position to keep themselves safe. It's a situation they could easily have avoided and then they acted like a twat cycling slowly and holding the passengers up. I say all of this as a cyclist that did Tallaght to the city centre for years before covid.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342545#Comment_122342545

Yeah, very much sounds like the cyclist is at fault, but coming that close to having an accident as a vulnerable road user is unsurprisingly likely to cause your hackles to raise even if it is largely your own fault. Just an adrenaline thing.

extra-ordinary_

It's not clear from the OP what the argument was about or if they're even sure what it was about. Could it have been a cyclist complaining that the bus hadn't given it enough room on the road as it overtook it previously, and now with the bus stopped, was the opportunity for the cyclist to catch up with it and give the driver a piece of his mind?

It could hardly be a cyclist complaining that a bus had pulled into a bus stop and blocked the cycle lane?

CramCycle

Sounds like the cyclist was at fault based on the info give. Bus was ahead, indicated, pulled in. Cyclist could easily have overtaken on the right or simply stopped. That's only based on the limited info given.

homer911

A couple of days ago a bus overtook me just before pulling in to a stop. The most he got ahead of me was 5m, well less than a bus length. Thankfully did not enter the bike lane but still beeped at me as he opened the door for a boarding passenger

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342357#Comment_122342357

Of course you can, you just need to want to do it.

Upgrade the road to one way, with just one lane of traffic and build a proper cycle path and upgrade the footpaths while you are at it, they look narrow.

Don't want to do that, CPO some of the front gardens to build a proper cycle lane.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342320#Comment_122342320

Irrelevant.

If a vehicle is indicating, it is wrong to take (under or over) on the side of the indication.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343006#Comment_122343006

Bloody dangerous too!

Patrick2010

One thing I regretted was having to go into Tesco express further along as I would have loved to have seen how far the cyclist was going to hold up traffic for. Could see the bus stopped at lights just pass Tesco, was curious to know if he was still holding up traffic.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342529#Comment_122342529

OK sorry my mistake, misread.

Well to your original question, and from a cyclist perspective

if the cyclist is two bus lengths behind the bus, and the bus indicates ahead of a bus stop, then the correct procedure is that:

the bus pulls in to the bus lane, as it has indicated on time and is free to do so.

the cyclist slows to allow the bus in if necessary.

the cyclist either stops behind the bus (hoping that its an EV!!), or if its safe to do so, overtakes on the right.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342799#Comment_122342799

CPO'ing front gardens was in the original Bus Connects plan for there but the residents successfully fought it and we're getting bus gates instead. It really doesn't look like they're making the bus/cycle interactions any safer but hopefully it'll improve without cars in the picture.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343006#Comment_122343006

of course it's relevant? it's extremely bad practice to overtake a vehicle/other road user if you intend to stop in front of them anyway.

and before you misread my post, i'm not suggesting it's a zero sum game, they could have both been in the wrong. but it might explain the irate reaction of the cyclist.

satguy

The cyclist should know that a bus will need to stop at a bus stop. So the cyclist needs to be ready and watching out.

The cyclist needs to sit downstairs on a bus, and see just how hard it is to drive a bus these days.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342283#Comment_122342283

In that case, cyclist is at fault: should have either waited behind the bus or overtaken it.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343267#Comment_122343267

Yep, my point was more of a general one, without knowing the details of BusConnects plan in that area.

In general we should be building cycling infrastructure in such a way that cyclists and bus/cars/trucks don't mix. The way we do things we be considered criminal in the likes of Amsterdam.

Looking at the BusConnects plan for that area, the plan looks to be to remove the cycle lane completely from this street and instead redirect it parallel down Poddle Park, down a "quiet street".

I don't know the area well enough to say if that is good or bad or if cyclists would like it or actually use it.

I would say that the new cycling infrastructure we are building like the C2CC, while it is better then what was there in the past, still falls well sort of international best practice.

Macy0161

Sounds to me that it was nothing to do with the pulling into the cycle lane/ bus stop/ indicating, and more to do with a real or perceived close pass before then, given the cyclist taking primary position once ahead of the bus.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343445#Comment_122343445

I think the parallel quiet route might attract people who wouldn't cycle otherwise, but I certainly won't be using it and I doubt many of my fellow cyclists on the route will either.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343612#Comment_122343612

Yes, I thought that might be the case, same with the ridiculous quiet route near me on Malahide Road, no cyclist will use that!

And worse, on this section of Kimmage road, it looks like they are going to remove the existing cycle lane and replace it with parking spots and trees!

FFS!

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343612#Comment_122343612

Why is that?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343823#Comment_122343823

Quiet routes tend to be longer, have worse surfaces, are full of parked cars and then dump you in an awkward position to get back on main roads.