SA vs Ireland First Test 2024 - The World Champions vs The Best Team in the World

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356267#Comment_122356267

It doesn't really matter if you (or anyone on this forum) consider him a potential international though. And if the coaches didn't see him as one, he wouldn't be in the squad.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357831#Comment_122357831

Also you will find, if Predergast put in a great defensive game but couldn't hit a barn door the accusation will be thrown at him that his primary role is to kick goals.

It's a vicious circle

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358030#Comment_122358030

Absolutely. There are some folks who really seemed rattled by his selection in the squad, very strange altogether. Would love to see him make the 23 for this weekend, though I'd say it's likely Farrell & co just want him in the squad environment for now.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358082#Comment_122358082

Werent you literally calling Casey and Crowley “AIL level” earlier in the thread??

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358089#Comment_122358089

I don't want to get warned again for mentioning things that happened in the game involving Munster players so whatever you say.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358089#Comment_122358089

He said what 😂 thats a phenomenal take the ail level urc players player of the year.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358126#Comment_122358126

A "Yes, that was me" would've sufficed.

Even a vague defence of that stance might've yielded some interesting back and forth discussion.

But no :/

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358126#Comment_122358126

They are Irish players in this context, not Munster players and you know full well that mentioning players from Munster is not why you were warned.

Anyway, I highly doubt Prendergast will be anywhere near the squad this weekend. I also think he is a good bit off even thinking about competing with Crowley. And I say that as someone convinced that in two years time he will definitely be our starting 10.

He also wasn't in the first test mind you, so it seems a bit off topic for the thread.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358126#Comment_122358126

There absolute is room for criticism for all players, Munster or otherwise.

But calling them AIL level players is leagues from a credible argument.

I don’t think Prendergast is remotely likely to start, but at least there is some semblance of logic behind his inclusion.

The point is, they’re not remotely comparable positions. Yet you’re calling the criticism of the latter as “strange altogether” yet are happy to run with the former.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358151#Comment_122358151

Plus it means the current World Rugby coach of the year is picking AIL level players…

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358740#Comment_122358740

I look forward to you being completely consistent when you criticise/question the selections of AF and other posters respond with this blanket argument that he is 'the current World Rugby coach of the year' so cant be wrong.

Should keep a lot of discussions quite brief.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358993#Comment_122358993

Which was not at all my argument.

The point is about the degrees involved here.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358993#Comment_122358993

We had days of posting about Coombes, seemingly we could have just shut it down at source with that information 😂

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359141#Comment_122359141

You think suggesting Coombes should be in the Ireland squad is equivalent to suggesting Casey and Crowley are AIL Level?

Or are there degrees involved?

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358574#Comment_122358574

I have no interest in discussing this or any other topic with you.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359133#Comment_122359133

Complaints that Haley should be starting on this tour when 'the current World Rugby coach of the year' doesn't believe he deserves to be in the squad despite multiple other FB options being unavailable.

A never ending drum of moans that 'the current World Rugby coach of the year' for several years mistakenly completely ignored a 'world class' level lock.

Those aren't minor quibbles, those a huge gulf in the opinion of certain posters versus AF.

You either give deference that 'the current World Rugby coach of the year' knows what he is doing or you don't. You certainly can't trot out that argument for points scoring purposes only when it suits you without looking like a complete hypocrite.

Podge_irl

This wasn't about Haley though originally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122347495#Comment_122347495

Let's be honest, this is a far worse comment than anything said about Haley. Now it was said in the heat of the match, so personally I wouldn't be referencing it again, but it's obviously way over the top.

Anyway, I think we all need to just mellow a bit in general. Our halfbacks were decent but not outstanding, the fullback was good and I don't think we missed Haley for sure. Prendergast is an exciting inclusion though I don't expect to see him this weekend (though I would be thrilled if we did and I think it would be the right call).

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359461#Comment_122359461

I was impressed with Casey, had a question mark over him personally and I felt Doak was potentially the future.

But Casey had a good game and as I said I was impressed, it was a pity he is missing this week

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359398#Comment_122359398

Haley should be in the Ireland squad.

Crowley and Casey are AIL level players.

Which of these is more reasonable?

Therefore, which of these is more reasonable disagree with.

The only hypocrisy is if you think these positions are equally reasonable.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359469#Comment_122359469

Yeah, he did better than I expected if I'm honest. Doak needs to be slot into 9 or 10, I don't think it is something you can go back and forth between in the Irish system.

Former Former Former

I'd love to see Doak get a run.

Presumably Murray will play 80 minutes if possible but it looks like Doak is going to be a 9 going forward so I'd see more value in giving him a few minutes than Blade tbh.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359469#Comment_122359469

I think Casey must be hugely frustrated. I thought he was having a good game on Saturday, in what was his first start for Ireland against decent opposition. He'd have been relishing the chance for another outing this weekend. I still think he's a better player than Doak (who's form has trended downwards I think over the past year or so), but Doak undoubtedly has potential.

Would rather either of them ahead of Caolin Blade, who had a poor season.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359473#Comment_122359473

Nice ignoring of world class Kleyn, but get off it with that weak attempt to rewrite the comments about Haley a few days ago.

If the only disagreement about Haley was him being in the Irish squad then there was no need for him to be mentioned when Osbourne was named as a starter. Haley's name was only brought up because of a belief he should have been starting instead - it makes no sense otherwise.

You're really floundering to try to defend your attempt to point score using AF's award.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359538#Comment_122359538

I can only assume Blade is there because they never thought they would use him to be honest. They wanted to invest all the training time in Casey and there would have been no point in Doak being there. But maybe I'm having an overly charitable interpretation.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359538#Comment_122359538

Ulster went downwards and majority of the squad as well. I wouldn't hold that against him and hope he improves next season

But as I said Casey was good and yes I agree very frustrated as it was his chance to have back to back games v SA and push his case forward

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359461#Comment_122359461

I'm not sure the need to mellow regarding the halfbacks - a few posters have just gotten incredibly defensive about any comments about them, be it factual statements about his kicking numbers or a few OTT comments in the heat of the moment.

Even when Sexton missed a single kick in a game you had similar OTT comments about him in the match thread, forget about the very few times he had a 40% success rate when he was called every name under the sun. It is completely normal treatment for the Irish 10.

Despite that terrible kicking performance there is near zero calls to replace Crowley and the general consensus post match is that Casey had a solid to good game - brushing aside concerns of any risk in exposing him to that kind of environment, even despite how he had to leave the pitch on a stretcher.

Everything is grand aside from some circling the wagons for absolutely no discernable reason.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359591#Comment_122359591

Calling the halfbacks "AIL level" is kinda hysterical - like I said I wouldn't bring it up again cause people say stupid crap during a match, but it was silly. Crowley's kicking percentage was unacceptable for an Irish international is a perfectly reasonable thing to say (and accurate I think, and not just on this occasion) - which is something aloof also agreed with earlier.

I have certainly never called Sexton "AIL level" though yes I'm sure I've gone a bit overboard during a match. And he had some shockers from the tee at times - doesn't stop him being Ireland's greatest ever player.

We could just acknowledge that calling the halfbacks AIL level was ridiculous hyperbole, and goading someone over that comment is a bit unproductive.

Interested Observer

Lot of bullying going on in this thread, the mods should step in.

hold my beer

This thread is completely ruined with utter, utter garbage. It's a train wreck, and I'd say most people skim over at best. That is all.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359571#Comment_122359571

Yeah, I do agree with that. I'm hopeful they can keep improving, because there's a lot of talented players up there. .

As a guy who is just 22 (doesn't turn 23 until December), Doak has already played a huge amount of rugby. 71 appearances for Ulster over the past 3 years (plus two brief appearances in the covid interrupted season). By contrast, Joe McCarthy, a year older, has played 35 times for Leinster (did miss some time with injury in the 22/23 season) and Jamie Osborne (a month older than Doak) has played 48 times for Leinster.

Definitely agree that Doak needs to just focus on 9 though and progress there.