Expired passport as proof of age

cathodrays

I lost my passport this week. I don't have a Garda age card but have my previous passport which is expired (got it when I was 16, ten years ago). Would it still be accepted in off-licenses and pubs/clubs?

Richmond Ultra

Driving licence?

Request a new passport, sure you will look way different to 10 years ago.

Peregrinus

It's up to the pub or club. Logically, they should accept an expired passport; your date of birth cannot have changed merely because your passport has expired. But bouncers are not noted for the rigorous application of logic, and are not easily persuaded by argument so if they say "sorry, this has expired, I won't accept it" there isn't a huge amount you can do about it.

Victor

I think "sorry, this has expired, I won't accept it" is legally dubious when using a passport other than in the context of border control.

"I don't believe this is you" might be.

Claw Hammer

A passport is evidence of age, not proof.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355393#Comment_122355393

How would it be 'legally dubious'? What law says that a doorman outside a pub has to accept specific proof of age ID? With all the fake IDs that are out there, he would be on solid legal ground to refuse any document.

I accept the principle that you don't cease to be the person named on your passport on the day it expires. But that doesn't mean that an out of date passport can be used ad infinitum and it must be accepted by all and sundry as proof of age.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355996#Comment_122355996

If I'm correct, licencing laws only insist on age cards being appropriate ID for age purposes. If a licenced premises demands age ID and are shown an age card, they must accept it.

Licenced premises are obliged to not serve persons under the age of 18 and in parallel to not discriminate. Demanding age ID and then saying "Meh, your not coming in anyway." is hoop jumping and indicative of discrimination.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355996#Comment_122355996

I think the point is that the fact that the passport has expired has no real bearing, one way or the other, on its value as evidence of age. If you're going to reject a proferred ID document, then do so on relevant grounds — "I think this is fake" or "I think this is a real passport; just not your passport". But the fact that the passport has expired doesn't suggest that its fake (if anything, it makes it less likely to be fake; why would anybody fake an expired passport?), and the question of whether it's the passport of the person proffering it is answered by looking at the photograph more than by looking at the expiry date.

Tl;dr: It's not rational to reject a passport as evidence of age solely because it has expired. But it's also not unlawful to do so. The only risk a publican would run in rejecting an expired passport is the argument that this is so manifestly irrational that it can't be the real reason for refusing admission, and the publican is using this as a fig-leaf to mask a real reason that is unlawful. And, absent some fairly unusual facts, that would be hard argument to make out.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355996#Comment_122355996

a Garda Age Card is accorded beneficial status under the Intoxicating Liquor Act to whit possesssion one is taken As proof that the licenced premises has conducted sufficient due diligence with respect to the age of the person concerned. A passport, driving licence etc can also be used but they are not expressly accorded the same status. With an expired passport, different interpretations or decisions can arise. I could understand if a licensor chose to insist on a current proof of ID/age - that’s their entitlement. They could have a reasonable policy not to accept expired ID.