General Premier League Thread 2024-25

Mitch Connor · 16-09-2024 6:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122619958#Comment_122619958

Kevin Campbell.

Though he was 90s too. But did play with the older generation.

SlickRic · 16-09-2024 8:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122619634#Comment_122619634

Because the great teams manage to ultimately do a couple of things:

Compete on all fronts
Get over the hump of actually winning.

I think it'll happen, don't get me wrong, but there has to be pressure do these things with this set of players at some point.

DM_7 · 16-09-2024 8:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620136#Comment_122620136

He was not a CB, the suggestion was Arsenal played with 4 CBs?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620225#Comment_122620225

If they want win the league I am not sure the domestic cups come into it. In the context of needing to make a 90 (maybe more) points, 90plus goals, 30 wins push in the league then an FA Cup or League Cup have to be well down the priorities. So much so that they are only worth focusing on if a team finds themselves in the late stages of them.

Champions league is different and would be one I am sure Arteta would love to go far in. The latter stages are really difficult to navigate through depending on so many factors and it would be hard to imagine a club that is so strong in the league saying it's time for more.

Maybe my views are impacted by being a Man Utd fan, I would love genuine consistency at the club I support where I see 80plus points 2 seasons in a row and go into the next as a genuine contender.

SlickRic · 16-09-2024 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620266#Comment_122620266

that's fair, and I think you're right. your desperation for consistency in the league for your own club is probably colouring things slightly.

i just believe this Arsenal team needs to prove it's a winning/elite team. it has the components now. it has the system and a manager the players utterly believe in. it has the players. i understand prioritising the league, I do. but if you prioritise the league, you need to win it in at least one of the 3 years your challenging. you can bet that City will be deep in all competitions as usual.

jacool · 16-09-2024 9:32am

Everything that everyone has stated above, about Arsenal, will count for nothing, if they don't win next weekend.

They will need every bit of luck, perhaps a nice referee, all the black arts and skulduggery, to beat Man City, but, as last season proved, a draw is just not enough.

ronjo · 16-09-2024 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620403#Comment_122620403

thats complete BS……. A draw would be absolutely a good result for Arsenal next weekend

allinthehead · 16-09-2024 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122618092#Comment_122618092

There's still no consistency, only minutes before Saliba was booked, both Romero and Bentancur kicked the ball away preventing Arsenal from taking a quick free kick.

McFly85 · 16-09-2024 9:49am

I would say that any team that can get in or around the 85-90 point mark for a few years running is elite. Pre Peps City that would have gotten you at least one league title, and I don’t think it’s really fair to judge a team against a state backed behemoth as failures because they don’t reach an insane amount of points.

90+ points every season isn’t normal, the usual cycle for teams to dip doesn’t apply when you can buy replacements with no issue and never have any trouble with big European clubs like Real or Bayern coming in for your players.

Arsenal are at the stage where an FA Cup or League Cup would be nice to have but they would consider themselves good enough to challenge for the PL/CL. It could happen, they could get one or both, or they might fall short. But even if they do fall short, it’s very difficult to brand them as failures.

tayto lover · 16-09-2024 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620403#Comment_122620403

They don't have to win next weekend. The league is 38 games and to win it you simply need more points than any other team or a better GD. I'd like them to win next weekend though but if they don't they still have more chances to accumulate more points by the end of season. I'd be happy with a draw tbh but a loss is not the end of their chances.

Fitz* · 16-09-2024 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620677#Comment_122620677

A draw being enough was said last season too, and look how that turned out.

To beat Man City to the title, you have to beat them mentally first. The only way to do that is by showing them that you are better than them. Beat them in a head2head game and power through for the next 8 games winning all 8. Beat them into submission. You can't let them be within a shout during the run-in as that is where they excel.

TitianGerm · 16-09-2024 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620677#Comment_122620677

That only works if you think you can get more points than them from the rest of the games. City are so ruthless you just can't guarantee that so beating them gives you a small window of wiggle room should you drop points against the other teams.

*** It's crazy that you have to be worried about dropping a small number of points over a whole season.

tayto lover · 16-09-2024 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620728#Comment_122620728

There are also loads of other things to consider, bad injuries to key players, players not just hitting form, poor refereeing decisions and just bad luck. Those things can effect any team. Over a long season many things can happen to change the course of a team.

McFly85 · 16-09-2024 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620677#Comment_122620677

I agree with this, who knows what will happen over the course of a season, and if City pip Arsenal to the title I doubt many will be looking back at the result at the Etihad as the reason.

But it shows how unenjoyable following a top team can be in the PL now when they could challenge for a title. Every dropped point feels like a disaster which in turn makes every game after that even more stressful to watch as a result feels imperative.

AdamD · 16-09-2024 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620705#Comment_122620705

Arsenal got 4 points off City last season, they literally beat them head to head. Its a 38 game season, bringing it down to 1 game is reductive at best.

Tbh with Haaland's form it may all be a bit redundant anyway

DM_7 · 16-09-2024 11:17am

Arsenal are up against it playing City away after playing on the Thursday night in Italy.

City have a home game Wednesday with means they have a clear travel week ahead. City were strong enough to start this week without Foden, Ruben Dias, Bernardo Silva, Rodri, Gvardiol or Doku ahead of playing Inter.

By comparison Arsenal had a light bench to say he least.

I am sure Arsenal will got for the win but for their season a draw would be very good to go home with.

jacool · 16-09-2024 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620421#Comment_122620421

They lost last season by 2 points. They drew away at Man City when a win would have put them back at the top of the league, (they had more shots on target in the game) and they would have moved 4 points ahead of Man City. Its all small margins, and this year they look likely to be even tighter because Man City have never come out of the blocks this quickly before. A draw sees City still 2 points ahead, and I have a feeling Pep is going all out for this title as the hearing goes on in the background.

doc_17 · 16-09-2024 11:31am

I think this will also be Pep’s last season so he’ll want to go out by winning another league.

SlickRic · 16-09-2024 11:43am

a draw is fine this weekend.

the reason a draw was less fine last season is because they had momentum, City were a bit hurt, and a H2H match in the run-in is different.

Mitch Connor · 16-09-2024 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620967#Comment_122620967

I thought playing for the draw (so it seemed) and celebrating it were bigger psycological indicators than the result itself being bad.

Fitz* · 16-09-2024 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621039#Comment_122621039

There is that famous social media clip of the watchalong online fans heavily celebrating that draw. I think it hurt Arsenal but also iirc the set up around the end of the game indicat

ed they wanted a draw. Arsenal created very little that day, 1 chance I think. They actually got 2 bookings for time wasting that game too! 😅

This data is a bit outdated (I'm guessing last season is not available yet) but it shows where Arsenal games rank with ball in play.

I'm probably a bit of a broken record when it comes to Arsenal's antics but I do think that it is a clear directive from Arteta. They have done it for 2 seasons straight and I think it's cost them both times. In 21-22 against Liverpool and West Ham the 2 draws from winning positions where they went messing with time wasting instead of putting the food down ended up being very costly. That infamous game against Newcastle last year albeit with a contentious VAR decision and Newcastle are no angels either.

I'd much rather Arsenal win the league that some other clubs if my own are not going to win it but I really think they need to grow up a bit if they are going to. Put the hammer down for the first few months and blow teams away. The antics can be saved for March April May in the run in. They don't need to be out in September. Attacking play needs to step up. Can't be relying on set pieces and time wasting this early in the season.

IncognitoMan · 16-09-2024 12:45pm

Arsenal obviously don't NEED to win this next weekend but if they lose it's a question mark over them very early in the season they would rather not have.

A lot of football to play and City look amazing right now as Haaland is well rested and firing on all fronts. They'll have their slump at some stage.

Arsenal need to

1. Make sure they are within touching distance when they do.

2. Take advantage when they do.

I don't think the City squad is as well stacked as it was previously but then I also cannot for the life of me understand why Arsenal didn't try to add a top level(or as close to that as they could get) striker this summer.

If City win the league again Haaland will be the main reason.

ronjo · 16-09-2024 12:46pm

So is it general opinion that Liverpool are already out of title race?

Pauliedragon · 16-09-2024 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621216#Comment_122621216

I don't think so.If City keep steamrolling ahead Arsenal and Liverpool need to finish in the top 8 of the champions league to avoid that extra round though.

IncognitoMan · 16-09-2024 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621216#Comment_122621216

Not out of it. Just they remain more of an unknown quantity at this stage.

The squad is there but Slot we don't really know yet.

I'd expect Liverpool won't be a million miles off City / Arsenal at the end of the season but I'd have them a bit behind the other 2 at present

ronjo · 16-09-2024 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621256#Comment_122621256

I guess losing at home to Forest would have a more negative effect on title race than drawing away to City.

Necro · 16-09-2024 1:02pm

I think it's sorta moot until the game occurs. Arsenal haven't lost or drawn with City yet. There's CL games midweek first.

Fitz* · 16-09-2024 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621212#Comment_122621212

I reckon Arsenal did the correct thing in keeping Havertz as their CF and using goalscoring widemen then aswell. A bit like Firmino Mane Salah. That's what I would do if I was Edu anyways. Havertz has kicked on since his Chelsea days.

But I don't think Martinelli has kicked on enough / lost too much after a couple small injuries, and should have been replaced with a big forward there to match or better what Saka can do. both of them didn't score enough from open play last season to be a top top class goal scoring widemen. IMO, in theory Arsenal did bring in the correct type of player in Sterling, just not the correct player. Someone like a Jarrod Bowen would be great I reckon but he plays on the opposite wing primarily but that sort of goalscoring wideman who can get 15 open play goals in the league and 20 across all comps.

Fitz* · 16-09-2024 1:06pm

@ronjo Liverpool title race chances;

Were they ever in it? Personally I had expectations at top 4 as they have enough to beat most teams but wouldn't have the consistency to win every week as required in a title race.

The first team wasn't strengthened where it needed to be (LB & DM) and they only strengthened the squad in 1 of the 2 required positions (RW but not CB).

Slot is a massive unknown, still.

IncognitoMan · 16-09-2024 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621300#Comment_122621300

Havertz is doing OK and fits into the system well but they still need the option of a real proper striker IMO
Jesus at this stage has massive question marks on his fitness.

Even to rotate with Havertz but more so to offer an alternative to be able to attack teams with different approaches.

Agreed on Sterling. They are taking a punt but I'd be shocked if he really makes a significant difference over the season

IncognitoMan · 16-09-2024 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621270#Comment_122621270

It's not just that. It's just he's 4 games in and we simply don't know enough yet.
It's not impossible Liverpool are in the race late on in the season but I just wouldn't see it as likely as Arsenal for example

Arsenal it feels like they have been building it for a couple of seasons now. It's almost at the stage where they need to show they have the next step in them now.

pjohnson · 16-09-2024 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621300#Comment_122621300

Trossard must be ahead of Martinelli by now?

SlickRic · 16-09-2024 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621216#Comment_122621216

technically, no. but realistically, they're not likely to be title contenders.

the main protagonists are Arsenal and City, until another club proves they deserve to be in the race.

Deise Vu · 16-09-2024 5:41pm

When the refs are told to clamp down on time wasting at free kicks are they incapable of reffing anything else?

There is supposed to be a rule for Keepers to dispose of the ball within 6 seconds. It was never enforced from day 1 so it is now part of player coaching when a goal up for the keeper to fall down any time he catches a ball, even an absolute dolly of a catch. He then lies there making love to it while getting pats on the back from his entire team.

Eventually, he gets up, strolls to the edge of the box, points a few times, then rolls it ten yards sideways to a fullback, who gives it back to him. It’s usually at least a minute and a half before something resembling football breaks out again.

And yes, I’m looking at you Raya.

DvB · 16-09-2024 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122622496#Comment_122622496

& I raise you Pickford!

Mitch Connor · 16-09-2024 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122622496#Comment_122622496

I've heard refs hate that rule because the punishment far out weighs the crime. And everyone has just decided to ignore it as a result.

Read a thing suggesting a corner or throw should be awarded instead of a free, and then it would likely become a rule people would be happy to see enforced again.

Fitz* · 16-09-2024 8:17pm

I know lots of people hated when the World Cup was adding on 10-15 mins at the end of games for time wasting but IMO that helped deter the time wasting as the time was added on. Of course you still gain from the momentum blocker but the momentum can be gained again with the extra time

pjohnson · 16-09-2024 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623112#Comment_122623112

i'd be happy if they keep this weekends sudden strictness. When the suspensions/reds start mounting up managers will have to come up with tactics that keep the ball in play.

Howe and Tindall will be baffled.

doc_17 · 16-09-2024 9:15pm

I don’t think Liverpool are in the race. Slot is a downgrade in Klopp, no investment in the summer, Robertson has dropped off in recent years, Konate not at the level of prime Matip, questions over Gravenberch and Sbozlai, and no consistent second top top goal scorer to back Salah up. Jota is very good at times but then gets injuries quite often and then sometimes goes on droughts. But they should make the top 4.

cj maxx · 16-09-2024 10:37pm

I thought and indirect free kick would be the obvious penalty for the offence

17-09-2024 7:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623421#Comment_122623421

I agree.

I think City and Arsenal will finish above us and we'll be slogging it out for a CL place.

It's a hard season to predict with all the changes.

noodler · 17-09-2024 8:26am

3rd could be a realistic aim for sure.

rob316 · 17-09-2024 7:47pm

I'll be happy with 3rd or 4th but there needs to be a clear plan from then in recruitment to move back to challenging. It's a good squad but that is entirely dependant on level of injuries.