Getting out of electric

antfin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498958#Comment_122498958

I think that you're forgetting that the GMFV might be the minimum value of the car but that amount is still owed, so if VW only pays the GMFV plus a small amount more you have little or no deposit towards the next car. The value above the GMFV is where you get the equity towards the trade in value and not the GMFV itself. So the cost of ownership was your original deposit plus the monthly payments. So where the value has fallen to the level of the GMFV or lower then you will not be given any equity in the car to put towards the next car. You must then have saved a further deposit towards the next car.

So if the car is now worth exactly the GMFV, you can walk away and hand the car back, buy it for that value by paying the balance or add more cash to make up a deposit on a new car (with the PCP car effectively being worth nothing towards that deposit). It works for some people and not for others where they don't understand they may have no deposit towards the purchase and haven't prepared for this eventuality.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498998#Comment_122498998

Yes, that’s exactly my point. The value can’t drop any further, so VW can’t charge you more at the end of the term than what’s owed on the balloon payment. I got the impression from the poster that people were being offered less than the Balloon/GTV for their car from the dealer when trading it in towards a new car. If the balloon payment or Guaranteed Future Value (GTV) is, say, €25,000, and that’s all VW offers as a trade-in towards a new car, then you won’t have a deposit and will need to pay more to keep your repayments manageable. However, I don’t see that happening if you've stuck to the terms and not tried to change early. If VW can’t return your deposit on top of the GTV, they’re doing something seriously wrong, and no one should buy a new car from them. PCPs are designed to get people into new cars every three years. If the dealer can’t profit from the traded-in car, they should absorb that loss and make money from the new car until the market improves. I understand depreciation, but no one should be in negative equity at the end of a PCP if they stay with the same dealer. Since the pandemic, dealers have been making excessive profits on trade-ins, money that should essentially stay in the customer’s pocket. They’re essentially robbing you if they offer €20,000 for your ID.3 and list it for €33,000 a week later.

antfin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499041#Comment_122499041

There is a group of people who were hit badly by purchasing prior to the relatively recent price cuts. It's not just VAG brands but others too, Merc, Tesla etc that made massive cuts to prices of cars that were arguably overpriced to begin with. There are people that bought base spec Model 3s for about €50k two years ago and the same car is €38k new now. The same with ID3 price cuts, EQE etc. There's not a hope that any of those people will have equity in the cars after 3/4 years. At the same time, it's more a case of people getting used to a return to normal depreciation levels where there was a few years where people expected to lose nothing on cars over 2 years because new car prices were rising so rapidly due to shortages. That's the nature of PCP and a relatively high GMFV, low deposit and low interest would mean you lose less if the deal was structured well compared to someone paying cash up front.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498436#Comment_122498436

Depends on how you look at it

The way I see it, in my example, I'd have the opportunity to buy a 4 year old car for 11k that I've been effectively renting cheaply for the last 4 years.

If the car is worth less than 11k I can either walk away and start a new PCP deal, or alternatively offer the dealer what it is worth.

There's also the other scenario, if the car is worth more, say 15k, I can sell the car and walk away with 4k to use on a deposit on another car. Most dealers will actually actively allow you to drive away in a new car on a new PCP deal without a deposit this way. The downside to this is you never own your car, but you always drive a relatively new one

The obvious thing to say here is that a 4 year old car will likely be worth a lot more than 11k

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499148#Comment_122499148

It's all smoke and mirrors isn't it. PCP is a cashflow vehicle which is often mistaken as the cost.

I can see how this happens and for many, cashflow is seen as more pressing for many than actual cost. Until the time to pay the piper comes around.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499041#Comment_122499041

I've only heard it anecdotally from a few owners so I'm not 100% sure what the situation was, but they were basically being told they would have no equity in the car if they traded it in. I know of two people who just handed the car back in the end

They could hand it back and be done, which is what some of them did. Or they could sell the car but in many cases they were getting offers below the final payment, resulting in negative equity

For example if you have a GMFV of €20k, you don't really have €20k of equity. What they're basically saying is they'll guarantee the car will cover the final payment at the end even if it's worth less than that

So again, I don't really see the benefit beyond an artificially lowered repayment and a get out clause at the end of the term

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498674#Comment_122498674

For me, and many others, a PCP deal was the only way to afford a new car at the time I bought it. This is why I think they're being used as a way to keep the monthly payment low

I did have some ambitions about trading up, but it just doesn't seem worthwhile. So in the end I paid off the loan and I'll be keeping the ID.4 for however long it takes to save for a new car

liamog

It's the opaque difference between the dealership and the financier. You either settle with VW Financial Services by giving the car back, or the dealer buys the car from you. They are two different entities. VWFS sell surrendered cars to dealers for the used trade.

The dealer will be doing a simple calculation, how much can I make by buying your car off you and getting you into a new car versus buying your car off VWFS and reselling it. If you are a dealer with a lot of used stock on hand it may make more sense to let VWFS take the hit and lose a customer, they'll be another one coming through the door next week.

It might be much easier to sell another car at €380/month which will result in the same happening in 3 years instead of selling a car at €650/month where the customer is in a better position at the end.

thebiglad

The GFMV assumes you are within a certain pre-agreed mileage and the vehicle is returned in a good condition with all service and maintenance undertaken.

Fail to meet these criteria and the value can be lowered.

fits

Well I think pCP is brilliant. Low interest and protection from depreciation. And I say that as someone who handed the car back.

n.d.os

Let's just say I'm completely f**ked when I go in with my wifes 3 year old PCP'd ID4 in November and try to trade it in for a new Tiguan. I certainly won't be mentioning anything about EV depreciation.

antfin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499287#Comment_122499287

3 year old ID4 will probably be between €20k and €28k depending on KM and spec.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499287#Comment_122499287

I'd be worried about getting burnt a 2nd time. A diesel Tiguan Life was €36k in 2021, it's now listed at €50k. Hopefully you don't suffer through a 2nd market correction.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499234#Comment_122499234

I think this is what happened with the ID.3, there seems to be a lot of stock at some very good deals. So I guess dealerships have no incentive to try and give a good trade in value

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499282#Comment_122499282

At least you didn't get a 1.0l petrol Kia and start talking about how great it is, like a certain other poster 😂

I guess the get out clause at the end is a plus, but it feels like the so called property ladder back in the day. It works as long as there isn't a dramatic drop in value

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499328#Comment_122499328

We have a 221 ID4 Business with the larger battery and 20 inch wheels. She's looking at a Tiguan Elegance Plug-in hybrid. The ID4 was 58k new before the grant so around 52k if I remember correctly. The same car is 10k less these days last time I checked so I'd say we will be tapping out very fast from buying a new car unless she's willing to look at an EV again. I'd buy a model Y if it was me.

Flinty997

I think ICE prices are riding a wave at the moment. I wonder where they will be in 3 yrs time. Will the manufacturers pay the fines or will the EU push back the targets.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499412#Comment_122499412

If you ask VW the answer seems to be keep the 2035 target but they'd prefer no fines

Because a no consequences law always gets followed

https://www.electrive.com/2024/08/12/vw-blume-calls-for-binding-legislation-in-the-direction-of-electric-mobility/

I'm not sure ICE prices are riding a wave so much as the wave was smaller than with EVs

They're also generally more profitable for now so manufacturers have more room to drop prices

One suspects the price also includes the cost of upcoming fines

I'd say 2027 will still be safe for ICE in general as long as nothing changes dramatically. There'll be holdouts right up to the cut-off, and it's important to remember that the 2035 target is for new ICE cars only.

You can buy a diesel in 2035 and keep it running all the way to 2050 theoretically. Wonder what fuel prices will be like by then however, can't imagine the refinery business will be doing great

terrarev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497989#Comment_122497989

Having to go to a filling station is more complicated than your car filling up when it's sitting on your drive.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499508#Comment_122499508

This whole petrol station fill up vs charging at home debate is a bit ridiculous. Why can’t people just accept that there are pros and cons to both.

Yes sometimes filling up can be a chore but at least you can get 1000km+ in some cars. And for most people in Dublin you probably won’t have to go out of your way to find a petrol station.

Yes charging at home is convenient, but having to mess around with wet cables in the pissing of rain or cold can be annoying, and getting 300km from a charge isn’t ideal.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499537#Comment_122499537

Funnily enough I always thought finding a petrol station in Dublin City was ridiculously difficult versus other areas. I can only think of two or three stations in the city centre

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499360#Comment_122499360

When you go to try and trade it, It’s likely the ID.4 will have lost about €25K since she bought it. I’d suggest digging out the paperwork to see what the GFMV is going to be at 36 months.

staples7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499724#Comment_122499724

not to rub it in as I have owned an ID4 in the past myself but a friend of mine picked up a Tiguan R-line diesel new back in 2021 for about 43k. He traded it in for a new Tiguan a few weeks back. Was given 40k for it 3 years later. Now to be fair the 2024 well spec model is up in the 60’s so he did need a fair chunk to upgrade but still it shows the value held.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500175#Comment_122500175

Your friend did very well to get €40K for a 3 year old Tiguan. Cost to change up though would be similar to moving up from a 3 year old ID.4 to a new one. If he could have got €40K his Tiguan privately, he could have changed up into a new ID.4 for very small money.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500175#Comment_122500175

He done really well. Maybe the dealer was taking a hit on the trade in to try shift the new car as they’ve jumped into a silly price bracket. 2021 RLines are likeness for very low €30’s.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499508#Comment_122499508

Ang having to use public charging is more complicated than pumping diesel. I fast charged for the first time in ages today having forgotten that it can be a right pain in the arse.

Location I was at had a big preauth of course but what was very frustrating was the length of the cables. We desperately need a design standard for ev chargers. Minimum cable lengths and drive thru chargers should be the norm.

staples7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500219#Comment_122500219

unless high milage they are making that money

allinthehead

Mother of jebus 66k for this piece of shlt.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-tiguan-tiguan-3-eleg-mi-2-0tdi-dsg-150/36623016

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500272#Comment_122500272

To be fair its a bit nicer than an ID4 and will hold its value much better. The only reason for the price difference is due to government grants and VRT

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500286#Comment_122500286

Do you think that'll hold well from 66k?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500306#Comment_122500306

It will definitely depreciate from new, but Tiguans are holding their value better than any of VW’s electric cars. Nicely specced 3 year old ones are still fetching over €40k with average mileage, and thats the pre facelift model.

That being said the depreciation of a Tiguan vs EV equivalent will probably even out now since the new prices of EV’s have fallen so much.

Flinty997

R Line "started" at 47,500 in 2021 I'm guessing you'd have paid at least that for one that's "well kitted out". Or got a great deal, bought low, sold high.