"Repeal the 8th" - 2023 - 10,033 dead

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382244#Comment_122382244

This is my surprised face: '_'

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379986#Comment_122379986

Any basis for this or is it "just coz"? Because morally and ethically I have been waiting over 30 years for anything that supports such nonsense and no one has got anything yet. Nothing. Nichts. Nadda. Bugger all. Diddly Squat……

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

…… this tripe is literally all those people have.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

Aha it didn't take long for the mask to slip. Would you be as bothered if it was black and brown babies who were being terminated?

Whether you want to admit it or not, you have been living in a "sick society" for decades. Irish women have been getting on ferries and planes and going abroad for abortions since the 1960's. As has been said numerous times, it was impossible to get accurate figures from the UK because many of these women didn't give the clinics their Irish addresses. It is only now that we finally have some sort of accurate figure on what the national average is. It's almost amusing to see the No people claiming to be shocked at how high the figures are. Were you living under a rock?

The government simply put a referendum to the Irish people and they voted overwhelmingly to repeal the 8th. If the Irish people didn't want the law to change, they would've rejected it. It isn't as if the Irish people aren't capable of going against what the government wants in a referendum. They rejected two proposals last March.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379986#Comment_122379986

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122380035#Comment_122380035

How do you square those two posts above please?

No termination allowed right from conception - but you’re pro choice?

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370256#Comment_122370256

Really then where are the massive protests and marches to change it?

You are delusional. And those who are trying to galvanize a movement are either grifters or nuts.

You are completely out of touch with the Irish people.

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370412#Comment_122370412

Why do we have to listen to you though?

People who lost the referendum keep making these bait threads in an tired effort to troll women. Go find your own lane. Go find your own space. Its just weird. Go talk with Youth Defense or something.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

It's always the racial angle isn't it.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382658#Comment_122382658

Yeah I wonder can kowloonkev or any of the other 'pro-lifers' cite a single example from social media or anywhere of a yes to repeal voter claiming to have been 'hoodwinked'. AFAICS all of those making a song & dance about 'the politicians' telling us abortion would be 'rare' after repeal and now look we have 10K a year are hardcore anti-choicers who were never going to be voting yes in a million years anyway…

Goldengirl

Another thread ongoing about the excommunicated Junior Minister who voted for this legislation in the Dáil .

Interesting to see those comments supporting the " excommunication " are from those with not so Christian views about refugees or indeed anybody of a different coloured skin like this op . And have been proposing conspiracy theories about plantation elsewhere also .

Edit .

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

Always good to see something corroborated.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384171#Comment_122384171

A mate of mine showed me a post just after the vote result, I think it was on Facebook, where someone claimed that their wife voted for repeal because they didn't understand the information provided by the government, while they voted against repeal because they did.

Suffice to say that if in any way real, the bets were that the marriage didn't last long as no one could stay with someone who is that thick.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385817#Comment_122385817

Well yeah I think the pro-lifers are not citing anyone who claims they themselves were 'hoodwinked' into voting yes to repeal because that person would essentially be telling the world they're a drooling imbecile. Their 'confession' would have to be along the lines of "Well I've always been against abortion on demand and was all set to vote no but then I saw the taoiseach promised abortion was going to be 'rare' under the new laws and

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122377697#Comment_122377697

Do you not agree with what I posted? It's very easily proved.

Also

Sounds like you didn't read my original post.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385926#Comment_122385926

Most of your post was irrelevant waffle, nobody claimed democracy was perfect, I would even say changes are needed within the democratic system. Your claim of democracy not working is nonsense so obviously I disagree with that. I read your post and your issue with democracy stems from the fact that you were on the losing side. Respecting democracy is very important if you want to live in a civilised and fair society where everyone gets to have their say.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385926#Comment_122385926

It's on you to back up your own claims.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

The only thing sick around here is your take on a very difficult medical problem that women and families have to make. You are completely devoid of empathy and understanding. You deserve nothing from society as you undoubtedly contribute nothing to it.

nullzero

Love the sense of conciliation and understanding these topics engender online. Everyone respecting each others opinions and agreeing to disagree...

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387562#Comment_122387562

I am pro-choice. And I am unashamed in saying I have no respect for anyone who would force or guilt a woman to continue a pregnancy when she does not want to continue.

The biggest difference for me is, I will support a woman in whatever she chooses.

If she finds herself pregnant in difficult circumstances, but wants to continue her pregnancy - I'll support her.

If she finds herself pregnant in difficult circumstances, but wants to terminate her pregnancy - I'll support her.

If she finds herself carrying a pregnancy where there is a fatal foetal anomaly, but she still wants to continue her pregnancy to it's natual end - I'll support her.

If she finds herself carrying a pregnancy where there is a fatal foetal anomaly, and she doesn't want to continue - I'll support her.

That's what "pro-choice" means to me.

Whereas I find the "pro-life" side are simply "Nope. No abortion under any circumstances".

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382067#Comment_122382067

Your the one that's sick with a post like that.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385889#Comment_122385889

Well they don't have a problem citing the likes of Noel Pattern, so maybe they could wheel someone out.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384848#Comment_122384848

There is no hate like Christian love

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386407#Comment_122386407

I read your post and I have come to the conclusion (and try to repeat it as fact) that your issue with democracy stems from the fact that you were on the losing side. Respecting democracy is very important if you want to live in a civilised and fair society where everyone gets to
have their say.

FYP for you. Respecting peoples choice and opinion is also very important. (This forum software is terrible. I have lost two typed posts and am now becoming very tired.).

The way that you think something, and then attempt to pass it off as fact is quite telling.

Your opinion is that democracy is fair and civilised. That is fine, you are allowed an opinion. As am I. But to say it is fair, is a stretch. Democracy is but a tool that is used to make us feel that our vote makes a difference. To quote Mark Twain - "If voting made a difference, they wouldn't let us do it."

Kindly point out my irrelevant waffle, because I am sure there was not any. I tried to abstain from derailing this thread but keep getting either misquoted or misunderstood. My only question was in my op asking why people repeat that we must respect the process or democracy. I asked Why?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386542#Comment_122386542

But not on the others to back up or correct their posts and read mine properly?

What am I being asked to back up? That democracy does not work?

Look up Arrow's impossibility theorem and remember that it does not mention individual corruption or sensationalism being used to influence, along with gerrymandering and so many other things that sway or impact peoples vote without being directly connected to policies or politicians.

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387617#Comment_122387617

You said you support a woman in whatever she chooses, but interestingly all the scenarios you said you support involved "difficult circumstances" or a fatal foetal anomaly. Is your support limited to those conditions?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406334#Comment_122406334

I've no interest in either your cynicism or in researching your argument for you.

I see no merit in continuing with this.

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406646#Comment_122406646

First off. I don't have or see any cynicism in my posts, From my first post, I was asking why people often repeat that we must respect democracy or the system. That has still gone unanswered.

My other posts were in reply to others incorrectly replying to mine or assuming I had some sort of agenda with them or politics. My issues with politics and politicians are no more than anybody else for example FG towards SF and vice versa. That does not mean we should not question the process or the system. I posted that democracy does not work, again in reply to others.

Others assumed that I must have lost some vote or other, and presented their opinion of me or it as fact, along with yourself suggesting that it is up to me to back up my own claims without any mention of the nonsense that others posted needing to be clarified. I had already posted my position regarding the vote that this thread is based on.

I could only assume that the claims you were referring to were that democracy does not work, so I posted a link to it. Ergo there is no reason for you to research anything, the backup is there for you to read yourself. Unless of course you are referring to the process of reading it as researching. I think about three or four posts ago I mentioned something similar regarding no reason to continue, yet I kept having to reply to posts incorrectly ascribed to me.

To clarify for once and for all. I only wished to know why people insist on telling us that we must respect democracy and||or the system. If anyone has an agenda, I would suggest it is those people.

More of the same proof, but maybe a little clearer regarding Arrow's theorem. All of the research is already done.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406347#Comment_122406347

No.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407157#Comment_122407157

You ask why should democracy be respected? It's the majority speaking, is this wrong? Or is there a subset of people who's opinion should be taken on board to a higher degree than others?

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407185#Comment_122407185

Christ. Can anyone on this poxy forum read?

I asked why people keep repeating that we must respect democracy and the system.

I have already clarified that I respect others opinions.

Is it really that difficult to grasp or read?

I couldn't care less anymore tbh. I just want to get away from repeating myself over and over to those that choose not to read.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407682#Comment_122407682

It's a bit of an odd question. We live in a Democracy and that is how decisions are made - through representative Democracy. You have no obligation to like it but you do have an obligation to respect it's outcomes or find somewhere else to live (that assuming you live in Ireland).

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407682#Comment_122407682

If you respect the view of others, then by definition do you not respect democracy?

I don't understand what you're saying. If you don't respect democracy, what do you respect?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407682#Comment_122407682

I don't think what your positing has any relevance in a direct A vs B referendum

ancapailldorcha

Democracy is simply the best method to organise human society. The idea that we should bin it because some lad on the internet got a result he didn't like in a referendum is more than a bit ridiculous.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122408192#Comment_122408192

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407715#Comment_122407715

I have posted that i do respect it's outcomes, but as you have said, I am under no obligation to respect it. My question has never been about democracy itself, but why people constantly tell us that we must respect it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407781#Comment_122407781

No. I can respect the view of others, but as democracy is easily corrupted, or swayed I don't respect that.

I respect the opinions of others more if it is a learned decision. For example, I would respect Epistocracy more for the process, less for the manner it which it would leave those without an opinion without a vote. It is in theory a better system allowing people that can understand the decision to vote, encouraging the others that are swayed on facebook for example, to educate themselves more, or just let things happen. But it would probably lead to more bias.

That is not a great example as it is also still open to some of the same corruptions as democracy, but for now it's all I've got. I'm tired repeating myself. There are many forms of government, including hybrid ones. The idea that a retired racist wrestler can get up on stage and rip off a t-shirt to convince crowds that they are siding with the correct party is not a million miles away from where we are headed. Giant Haystacks could have made a fortune if he lived another 25 years or so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122408192#Comment_122408192

We don't know that, but also if I am 'the lad on the internet' that you are referring to, then you should go back and read what I have posted. I did get the result that I voted for. It doesn't mean that democracy is fair, just or must be respected. It doesn't prove anything at all actually.

Again, my only question has been "why must we respect democracy?"

I get that we should, if we wish to continue to live here, but not why we must when it is so easily corrupted and is so riddled with nepotism among many other issues, when nothing else has even been spoken about.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122408663#Comment_122408663

Because part of respecting democracy involves respecting the opinions of others. Democracy is far from perfect but its still the best system we have.

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122409370#Comment_122409370

But it doesn't and it isn't necessarily.

The whole idea of democracy is that the majority rule applies, other peoples opinions are not respected at all. And it goes right back to Kenneth Arrows theorem.

Democracy is the only system we use. It does not mean that it is the best, but thank you for answering the question. I have||had mostly lost interest here.

Once a government is voted in, they can pretty much do as they please.

Hotblack Desiato

No they can't, we have a constitution and are also subject to EU and international law.

None of this is at all relevant to the thread topic.

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410326#Comment_122410326

Yes they can, and if it wasn't obivious, I meant unless it is something crazy that they really wouldn't want to do after getting voted into that position, but it suits you, because then you can say "no they can't, we have a constitution and are also subject to EU and International law."

I was referring to corruption, not the next Hitler.

None of this is at all relevant to the thread topic.

That has been pointed out a few times.

lilith7

I'm on the other side of the world in Aotearoa New Zealand & abortion has been legal here since 2020. It took quite a long while to finally bring that about & so we had the situation of women needing an abortion having to go to Australia in order to access one.

In an ideal world, no one would ever need an abortion, but until then I feel that it's a right which is sorely needed. At least until we have a 100% safe & effective contraceptive, or perhaps a 100% reversible & safe vasectomy can be offered to men.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410316#Comment_122410316

Your wrong, democracy very clearly respects other people's opinions as it gives them a way to voice their opinion. If you think theirs a better system than democracy then you disagree with what the majority have decided. Government cannot do as they please as they rely on the people to keep them there. The fact that people allow politicians away with doing a poor job is a topic for a separate thread.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414475#Comment_122414475

Word salad

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414492#Comment_122414492

Because rape doesn't exist, and women can always trust men 100% to be honest about their vasectomy status.

Enter Username Here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415090#Comment_122415090

No. But do yourself a favour and read either of the links I have posted about Arrow's theorem. It proves that it doesn't work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415164#Comment_122415164

No, I chose to write it like that as people would have skipped over it and written something else had I just wrote "Yes they can and do, within reason".

Saying that they don't is denying corruption exists.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415919#Comment_122415919

His theory does not prove that democracy doesn’t work, it just shows that democracy has flaws but all systems have there flaws.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414492#Comment_122414492

That's 100% false. Abortion has been legal in NZ for decades.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415171#Comment_122415171

And....... because men can trust ALL women to be responsible with their birth control and be 100% honest about their birth control.

crossman47

Democracy is our form of government and so we must go along with the decisions of our elected representatives or the vote of a majority in a referndum. However, for democracy to work properly, the rights of minorities should also be respected. Failure to do this was a major part of the problems in the Six Counties. My problem with the abortion issue is that those holding a minority opinion have been totslly disregarded. This started with a TD saying "You lost, get over it" when opposing those looking for amendments to legislation and now to the most recent review of the legislation which concentrates entirely on making abortion easier while not even paying lipservice to any notion of tightening up the law.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417823#Comment_122417823

How do you accommodate a minority who want to ban abortion for the majority. It can't happen.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417854#Comment_122417854

I'm not talking about banning abortion. I'm just asking the "winners" not to dismiss the views of a minority as irrelevant. Keeping the three day waiting period would hwlp in that regard.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417885#Comment_122417885

The three days waiting period serves no useful purpose. Once you have made the decision it just creates stress. What is its actual function since I guarantee that no one changes their decision within those three days. So what does it achieve for you ?