"Repeal the 8th" - 2023 - 10,033 dead

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417823#Comment_122417823

I don't get what point you're trying to make here. It was a binary choice and the majority won. The people who spouted hateful misogynistic nonsense like "abortion on demand" and similar tropes are getting the respect they deserve. People who want respect give respect.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417787#Comment_122417787

How exactly would legal abortion fix this though?

Are you proposing forcible abortions on women who lied to men they had sex with??

Or were you just getting on your “bad women” hobbyhorse here?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417885#Comment_122417885

But in this case you are suggesting that the minority should be accommodated by imposing their will on the majority.

The minority in this case don't want abortion. So don't have an abortion if affected. But don't be preventing the majority from doing what the majority voted for. (I know that technically the vote was just to remove the 8th amendment, but it was a given that doing so would allow government to legislate for abortion)

Sandor Clegane

The amount of people that are perpetually unable to mind their own business is staggering, just let other people make their own choices and get on with your own life, if you don't believe in abortion then don't have one, but why continuously try and force your will on society as a whole? its creepy and sadistic, I can't understand what people get out of it and it must be a miserable way to live life.

Ireland voted yes, just get over it and move on.

Abortion is an individual choice and an often traumatic one…but how people can't see that forcing someone into a pregnancy they don't want is pure evil is beyond me.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370397#Comment_122370397

Where can the sections of the act be seen, the wording etc.,?

Geuze

Instead of destroying unborn babies, why not match the (supply of) unwanted babies up with the (demand for) babies from people suffering from infertility, etc.?

There seems to be loads of couples using IVF, etc.

This solves both sides, and prevents the destruction of the unborn baby.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

Because pregnant women aren't vessels?

lilith7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417766#Comment_122417766

I suggest that you check Wikipedia or Manatu Hauora; changes did occur earlier but the final legalisation came later.

I think the point at the heart of this is that no woman should ever be forced to endure an unwanted abortion, & no woman should ever be forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

F'kin hell man give your head a wobble.

lilith7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415171#Comment_122415171

If only! Really, if only we were perfect instead of being human & capable of reasonable behaviour at all times. :)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417766#Comment_122417766

Under more limited circumstances than since the 2020 law and with some legal grey areas before then, AFAIK.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417823#Comment_122417823

Is this some sort of joke?

The anti-choicers had no regard for the opinions of anyone else and still don't, they just like to scream 'MURDERER!' They did this in the run-up to the 8th amendment in 1983, they did this for the 35 years until it was repealed, they're still doing it now.

Abortion for rape or incest - 'MURDER!'

Abortion to save a woman's life - 'MURDER!'

Abortion of a non-viable foetus - 'MURDER!'

Morning-after pill - 'MURDER!'

They have never contemplated any sort of compromise in any way. Not un-coincidentally, these attitudes are very very similar to those of religious fundamentalists.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418572#Comment_122418572

You can see them here:

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/31/enacted/en/print

Click view by Section.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

Adoption is not a convenient solution for an unwanted pregnancy.

For some women carrying a pregnancy for nine months would in itself be a problem.

If it wasn't, more women would do it already.

Even before abortion was legalised in Ireland the number of infants put up for domestic adoption was miniscule.

And now the child's right to information on their birth parent(s) under The Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022 has to be considered as a factor, meaning there is no option of anonymity or privacy for the pregnant woman, so I'd say even less women would consider adoption as an option.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

Tell me you’ve no idea what you are talking about without telling me you’ve no idea what you are talking about.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

I bet this post is from a man.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418613#Comment_122418613

My post was not a joke. I am not a fundamentalist - I voted yes to repeal the 8th. I recognised the need for abortion in certain circumstances. However, I now cringe when I see the result - 10,000 abortions a year. Professor Boylan recently wrote that planning was done in anticipation of numbers like that. If it was, we heard nothing about it before the referendum. If we did the result would have been a lot closer. It is the pro-choice lobby who have now become fundamentalists - abortion in all circumstances at all times is their request. I don't know how but more must be done to reduce the number of abortions. Thats all I'm going to say on this topic. The reaction has proved my point - the winners want to totally ignore the minority view.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419126#Comment_122419126

ah yes, forcing women to give birth. how very 1950s.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

you should have paid more attention. the numbers were well discussed and are in line with the estimated number of abortions that women in ireland were already having.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

Projection. This was always going to happen. Why would women be taking Ryanair flights to Liverpool for something they can get in an Irish clinic?

The anti-choice fundamentalism didn't work in 2018 and it won't work now. This thread is a perfect example.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418606#Comment_122418606

Well I'm from NZ and I knew a couple of girls who got abortions in the 90s. In hospitals. And I took a girl to get an abortion in Middlemore Hospital in 2006. So it was definitely legal.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058359287/repeal-the-8th-2023-10-033-dead

Always find it interesting that the people who say stuff like this never actually were passionate enough about their apparent devotion to the sanctity of human life to actually campaign in any significant number for even stronger anti-abortion laws that would have sought to prevent women from travelling abroad for abortions or prosecuting them if they did as both a punishment for the alleged murder of the unborn and a deterrent for others.

The so-called 'pro-life' camp have always seemed more interested in adhering to the optics of being pro-life, and seem less interested in matching the apparent purity of their morality to the purity of practical measures to stop abortion.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

I never said anything about you being a fundamentalist.

Why get hung up on the numbers? Each one is an individual's choice, either the individual has the right to make that choice or they do not. You cannot decide that there is a quota on the number of people allowed to exercise their legal right.

The anti-choicers whingeing about it is especially hypocritical, as we all know that even one abortion is one too many for them. There is literally no number which would be acceptable to them.

I doubt it would have made a discernable difference to the vote, it was obvious that we had no real idea how many women were having abortions secretly overseas or illegally here, but it was thousands for each on top of the thousands in the UK we did know about.

Proper sex education, widely accessible and free contraception, morning after pill availabilty, these are the things to reduce the abortion rate and these are the things the Catholic right (the vast majority of anti-choicers) have opposed for decades and still oppose. The government is moving in the right direction on contraception but not doing anything to end religious control of education.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

Is this your fantasy world?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

If someone is in the minority and is against abortion in all circumstances, they never have to have one.

They are not affected by the availability of abortion services as they will never use them.

But for the life of me, I will never understand why this minority seem to think their view on abortion should be taken into consideration in another woman's decision whether to end/continue a pregnancy.

They should mind their own business. That is the bottom line.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417823#Comment_122417823

This is very much in the "when I was in the majority I made the rules for every one but now I am in the minority the rules must accommodate my beliefs" zone

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

10,000 abortions a year. Professor Boylan recently wrote that planning was done in anticipation of numbers like that. If it was, we heard nothing about it before the referendum. If we did the result would have been a lot closer.

Roughly how many abortions per year do you think 'hesitant yes' voters were anticipating? Surely anyone even minimally informed about the issue would have been aware the number would surely be in the thousands. Do you reckon a lot of people were thinking "Well under the proposed legislation I reckon there'll be about 4K or 5k abortions per year and I'm okay that but if there was anything like 10K I'd be a definite no."?

ancapailldorcha

The "we were lied to" argument is truly disingenuous. Anyone could have worked out that the amount of women heading to the UK for abortions every year would correlate to the amount now being done in Ireland.

Sadly, I'm not surprised that we've so many people saying that they voted yes but would now vote no based on this.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419316#Comment_122419316

The numbers of women providing Irish addresses in the UK was known; and it was known that women were also going to the Netherlands and also providing fake addresses in the UK (pharmaceutical abortion not generally being offered to women with Irish addresses as you aren't meant to travel immediately after it) so that the total figure was significantly higher than that of those giving Irish addresses.

Those numbers were thrown around by the No campaign constantly. If you didn't hear it, you weren't paying attention.

All the information on the proposed system was given in advance; there is absolutely no argument to be made about lack of information or "we didn't know what we were voting for"

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419790#Comment_122419790

In addition, there were numerous clinics in the UK giving discounts to women with Ryanair boarding passes. A whole ecosystem had sprang up around it.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419706#Comment_122419706

I'm not surprised that we've so many people saying that they voted yes but would now vote no based on this.

Are there actually a lot of people publicly putting themselves in this bracket? There are certainly plenty of hardcore anti-choice types claiming many 'soft yes' voters were 'hoodwinked' in this way but I haven't seen too many saying this of themselves.

I reckon this is because if you came out publicly and said something along the lines of "Well I was always against 'abortion on demand' but Leo Varadkar promised abortion would be 'rare' under the new laws and I just took that at face value" you'd be announcing yourself to the world as a drivelling idiot…

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419834#Comment_122419834

In fairness, it's less than I said but it's also the premise for the whole thread so there's that. It's an argument that we'll be hearing for some time at some level.

If it's been 10,000ish abortions since 2018, 6 years ago then that's just over 1,500 a year in a country of 5 million.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419916#Comment_122419916

Its 10k a year.

It is unlikely to be any more than the combined pre-2018 figures of UK, hidden UK, NL and online purchases of pills though.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419926#Comment_122419926

Mea culpa. I just read the thread title wrongly.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419126#Comment_122419126

I always think of the Gloria Steinem quip regarding men and abortions:

“If men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at gas stations.”

Beta Ray Bill

I did not realise the number would be so high.

From reading about it, 98% were in the early stages of pregnancy.

It's painful to believe there are so many careless people out there. 1 in 6 of all pregnancies are aborted, that's a high enough number (I don't know how it compares to other EU countries). I get people will go to the UK and I don't think we should reinstate the 8th. I just wish people would be more careful.

It would be interesting to have more information about the demographic of the people availing of the service. Age, Location, etc. Might be possible to do more to educate people.

Having an abortion is most probably an awful process to go through.

Hotblack Desiato

You have some cheek calling people careless. You don't know them, you have no idea whatsoever of their circumstances.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420241#Comment_122420241

Comparing the abortion figures to the live birth figures to calculate a percentage is very, very inaccurate due to it omitting miscarriages.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417823#Comment_122417823

However, for democracy to work properly, the rights of minorities should also be respected…………My problem with the abortion issue is that those holding a minority opinion have been totslly disregarded.

Cool idea.

Tell me, when abortion was banned completely because the majority wanted it, how were the rights of the minority respected? I mean, you hold this opinion no matter what, right? You don't just think the majority should respect the minority now that you're on the 'wrong' side, right? Right?

You had no problem with the minority opinion being totally disregarded when you weren't one of them. Now that the tide has turned you think your opinion should count for something?

I have a three year old at home who is less of a hypocrite than this. On how many other issues do you hold an opinion that you would be considered part of the majority, where you're happy to respect those that hold a different viewpoint? Do you think child molesters should be accommodated/given regard? What about Satanists? Assisted suicide? Gay folks right to not be discriminated against? Or are you, as we all suspect, talking a whole load of shite?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420241#Comment_122420241

Careless people…

What is wrong with people? You have no idea why people are getting abortions. And it's none of your business either. But to imply that it's just people being careless is nasty.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420616#Comment_122420616

Valid point. There are around 15,000 every year.

lilith7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419498#Comment_122419498

While it was legal earlier, the final changes took place in 2020 when the abortion legislation act removed the criminal status & allowed abortion on demand during the first 20 weeks.

lilith7

Something those opposed to abortion seldom if ever consider, is how their country could manage to cope with all the extra people should abortion become illegal again.

That would be quite a number of people requiring education, healthcare & housing.

And incidentally, no 'baby' is killed - I'm not sure if those claimimg this seriously don't know that its only a few cells with the potential to, at a later stage, develop into a baby which are removed or if they prefer just to use the term baby hoping to shock people for reasons best known to themselves,

lilith7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420138#Comment_122420138

I do believe she's right!

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423069#Comment_122423069

Don't know what changes were made in 2020 but as I said earlier, there were absolutely no issues getting an abortion in NZ in the 90s and 2000s. Hospitals did them. I never heard of anyone flying to Australia to get an abortion as you mentioned earlier.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418592#Comment_122418592

Loving those salty tears.

lilith7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423692#Comment_122423692

It did happen; if memory serves, there was an organisation called I think, SOS (sisters overseas) which helped women get from NZ to Oz for an abortion & I think that continued until they became available here. Although it mayn't have been all that well known due to the legal aspect, I think I read of it in Broadsheet (which ran from around the early 70's to the mid or late 90's) but I could be wrong about where i read it.