We have a tradition at lansdowne road....

Trojan

Yes, you were attacking someone: everyone who follows this tradition. Ok, moving on from that dead-end of a topic...

You think it's odd - that's fair enough, but I don't think even 10,000 people thinking it's odd would make any difference.

I play for Clontarf 3rd Bs - that's our 5th team overall - way down the bottom of the pile. Last year, an Aussie friend of mine came along to a match I was playing in at home. We had about 5 people watching on the sidelines. The Aussie started jeering as their kicker took a kick, and one of my props immediately told him to stop. This isn't just about Lansdowne, Thomand and representative sides - it's something that we do. So if we react when you belittle our traditions, take the heat - you called it on yourself.

I see your point about the competitiveness, but I can't agree. I think it's more important to stick to our morals than throw them away for that reason.

eirebhoy

The quieter a stadium is when going up for a kick, the more it would put me off TBH.

Third_Echelon

Trojan wrote:

Yes, you were attacking someone: everyone who follows this tradition. Ok, moving on from that dead-end of a topic...

It was merely questioning, not attacking.

Trojan wrote:

You think it's odd - that's fair enough, but I don't think even 10,000 people thinking it's odd would make any difference.

Your opinion, fair enough.

Trojan wrote:

I play for Clontarf 3rd Bs - that's our 5th team overall - way down the bottom of the pile. Last year, an Aussie friend of mine came along to a match I was playing in at home. We had about 5 people watching on the sidelines. The Aussie started jeering as their kicker took a kick, and one of my props immediately told him to stop. This isn't just about Lansdowne, Thomand and representative sides - it's something that we do. So if we react when you belittle our traditions, take the heat - you called it on yourself.

I'm aware of the tradition down to the grass routes alright. I go to watch old belvedere some weekends as my mate plays for them and its the same there, but a few people on the sidelines aren't going to make too much of a difference...

Again I wasn't belittling. I asked the question.

Trojan wrote:

I see your point about the competitiveness, but I can't agree. I think it's more important to stick to our morals than throw them away for that reason.

Fair enough. Maybe im just over competitive

rugbyfairy

Whats your tradition?
to get refs that cheat?

Trojan

Ah, an Englishman chimes in?

Our refs don't cheat, they just follow the windy roads of justice

But seriously, I wasn't happy with Spreadbury (where's he from then?), but I need to see the game again to comment without the east terrace bias.

daveirl

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RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

Ah, an Englishman chimes in?

Our refs don't cheat, they just follow the windy roads of justice

But seriously, I wasn't happy with Spreadbury (where's he from then?), but I need to see the game again to comment without the east terrace bias.

I can add my South Terrace bias if you like....i thought he was poor.....very poor!

rugbyfairy

well i think Honnis was s**t when SA played ireland.

i think o'gara was very clever for taking the kick but honnis should have called him back

daveirl

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CJhaughey

Third_Echelon wrote:

steady on there. Less of the 'attacks' please.

I didn't attack you I merely suggested that if you were not happy with the way the ritual of placekicking is conducted in this country find one that please you and allows you to express yourself in the manner in which you so clearly desire to, France perhaps?

Third_Echelon wrote:

.But if you're not comfortable with a tradition, you shouldn't feel the need to apply it.

So you are saying, because you don't feel like giving respect to an opposing teams placekicker that you should ride roughshod over the feelings of thousands of other fans who obviously do not think on the same wavelength as your good self.

Third_Echelon wrote:

.I'm merely playing devils adcovate in a situation here. Seems to me that you are not very open to change or the ideas of others.

This is what a Tradition is no? I mean if I thought that the theme from Rocky was a better tradition to play instead of Irelands call would that give me the right to say that the tradition of playing IC should be changed?

Third_Echelon wrote:

.May I point out, that I have indeed heard other people mentioning about the silence matter. It should be debated.

This is a debate.

Nukem

daveirl wrote:

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That was a tough call the mark one.He called it well though.The tackler had hands on hime before he could do anything about it and thats leagal, just

Hairy Homer

This is a bit of deja vu for me.

Last year I brought my son and his friend to the Leinster Biarritz HC game at Lansdowne. The first qualifying pool game, that is.

The lads had brought along a party horn which was pretty loud to add to the general atmosphere.

In the fullness of time, Biarritz had occasion to kick at goal. Junior turns to me, eyes wild with the realisation of a Great Idea that had just formed.

'Dad. I'm going to blow the horn just before he kicks.'

Cough! Splutter! Apoplexy!! 'You will not.'

'But Dad. It'll put him off.''

'I know. That's why you're not doing it.'

Junior assumes bewildered look. 'But why not?'

'Ask your Uncle John.'

'Why Uncle John?
'
'Because he's from Limerick. He's a mad Shannon supporter and if you did that in Thomond Park, they'd kill you.'

He still doesn't understand why but he knows not to even think of doing it now. Until after the guy has missed the kick, of course.

BTW. Junior was eight years old at the time. I would hope that when he grows up a bit, he will understand why.

It's a great tradition. One that lends itself to fierce support while on the terraces between rival fans and lots of convivial drinking in the bars afterwards whatever the result. None of your 'You're crap and you know you are.' or 'You're going home in a big white ambulance'

No hard feelings.

Trojan

Forgot about the mark - wow that one got us turned on in the crowd anyway - livid!

RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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....What about the constant spoiling....illegal ruck protection and offsides at rucks... :eek:

Mungaman

If I can add my two cents in here,

I was at a rugby function in NZ where Grant Fox was speaking ( Grant Fox being one of the highest point scorers in world rugby and a clinical fanatic).
He was asked where is the hardest place to kick a ball from.....

" Right in front of the posts at Landsdowne road, there is no where in the world that is that silent I considered getting my own forward pack to yell at me just so I could get in the zone"

If the silence at the game is a sportsmans tradition and everything that goes with it, then why is it that every game at Landsdowne the crowd are booing players who take ten in the bin and everytime they touch the ball when they return the universal boo goes up? Mistakes are now cheered and the ref's are taking more stick as each match passes. I'm in favour for tradition but no one ever sings "Cockles and Mussels alive alive o" anymore.
A bag of hot chips has the same inflation as the property that surrounds the ground. A programme is smaller and full of ads and the pints round the ground go up each time we get there. Maybe its just that both the fans and the game has changed and adapting to change is what the world is about apparantly.

Well done on the win on Saturday I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Ronan O'Gara show again. I have to say though that I think that may have been the best defensive display by an international side this season. They were very very well organised and tackled like demons. I question again the back line at a 3/4 depth, either run them flat or really deep. I don't know if the ball actually went right across the backs and touched each set of hands on the way. IRL could do with simplifying it a bit and let the wings score tries.

Third_Echelon

CJhaughey wrote:

I didn't attack you I merely suggested that if you were not happy with the way the ritual of placekicking is conducted in this country find one that please you and allows you to express yourself in the manner in which you so clearly desire to, France perhaps?

I here its nice this time of year...

CJhaughey wrote:

So you are saying, because you don't feel like giving respect to an opposing teams placekicker that you should ride roughshod over the feelings of thousands of other fans who obviously do not think on the same wavelength as your good self.

As I said, i'm all for the respect aspect of the game, but I also support my team and want them to do well.

CJhaughey wrote:

This is what a Tradition is no? I mean if I thought that the theme from Rocky was a better tradition to play instead of Irelands call would that give me the right to say that the tradition of playing IC should be changed?

Tradition doesn't mean that it has to go on forever. Traditions die out. Look at the garvaghy road for example. That was a tradition to march down it. A compromise was reached... not the same situation, but you get my point about tradition.

Rocky isn't a traditional irish rugby song, so your point is negated here.

CJhaughey wrote:

This is a debate.

Nice one...

uberwolf

Mungaman wrote:

" Right in front of the posts at Landsdowne road, there is no where in the world that is that silent I considered getting my own forward pack to yell at me just so I could get in the zone"

thats good enough for me sol we've settled it

CJhaughey

Quote Third Echelon
Look at the garvaghy road for example. That was a tradition to march down it.end quote

Bad example, keep politics out of sport.

Third_Echelon

CJhaughey wrote:

Bad example, keep politics out of sport.

Im not saying thats what its like. If I came up with an example about the tradition of pickeling eggs dying out... (even though it hasn't and is a totally made up example)

should cookery also be kept out of sports???

Its the only tradition i could think of at the time that a compromise was reached and the tradition 'ammended'.

uberwolf

Third_Echelon wrote:

Its the only tradition i could think of at the time that a compromise was reached and the tradition 'ammended'.

I'd a thought this was an all or nothing kinda thing though. And unfortuantely as with any things teh will of the minority can rule. The PAs request met with applause on every instance. The schoolboys terrace is the one who makes the most noise, which reflects the mentality.

Third_Echelon

uberwolf wrote:

I'd a thought this was an all or nothing kinda thing though. And unfortuantely as with any things teh will of the minority can rule. The PAs request met with applause on every instance. The schoolboys terrace is the one who makes the most noise, which reflects the mentality.

All or nothing kind of thing? I dont really know... perhaps.

So are you saying that other rugby nations supporters who do this have the mentality of school boys? Thats a bit unfair i would think???

Perhaps they are competitive? Passionate?

RuggieBear

Third_Echelon wrote:

All or nothing kind of thing? I dont really know... perhaps.

So are you saying that other rugby nations supporters who do this have the mentality of school boys? Thats a bit unfair i would think???

Perhaps they are competitive? Passionate?

diferent culure perhaps...altho that opens up the whole cultural imperilist argument..... :eek:

uberwolf

all or nothing? - no such thing as half silence really.

disrespecting the will of the majority of the crowd is childish IMO, particularly in reflection of teh half silence thingy.

Trojan

Those announcements were met with huge applause.

Politics, pickled eggs and "cookery", whatever that is ... this thread is now getting silly. I think the main points have been answered, it's been explained why we do so, and it has been strongly suggested that the overwhelming majority of people in Lansdowne, excepting the under-16s, appreciate the respect and manners we show to the opposition. If you don't like manners, please feel free to discuss your issue on this thread.

Closed.

Trojan

Re-read this last night - on reflection I may have been too quick to close it - apologies. I'll leave it open a while and see if anyone wants to keep it on-topic

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

Re-read this last night - on reflection I may have been too quick to close it - apologies. I'll leave it open a while and see if anyone wants to keep it on-topic

so you're not infallible.....

EDIT: on topic'ish: Just watched an NBA game and you could see all the fans putting off the players taking free throws...

Trojan

How dare you! I'm completely infallibel.

Third_Echelon

Trojan wrote:

Re-read this last night - on reflection I may have been too quick to close it - apologies. I'll leave it open a while and see if anyone wants to keep it on-topic

Things are often different on a second read alright. Nice to see a decent moderator who can be 'human' for a change and admit an error...

Anyway I had a few points to make last night, but on reflection I can't honestly remember what I was going to say...

Rugby is a changing sport. Since professionalism came into play, changes have been creeping in with regards to sponsorship, corporate whore mongering (as another thread suggested BOD was doing), the fans that are now attracted to rugby, merchandising, TV coverage, European Cup etc

Basically its a lot more accessable to a wider amount of people. This means that people who have traditionally been 'other-sport' orientated have taken more of an interest in rugby in this country.
Traditions should be carried on as much as possible, but in an ever-changing age of the game, perhaps some new practices with regards to 'fan behaviour' are not such a bad thing.

I understand the whole 'silence thing' in lansdowne road. I dont think that people should be 'looked down upon' for not knowing this.
In general though, the Irish crowd at Landowne and at Leinster games, need to be a bit more lively at times. There are too many occassions of no fan noise at all during the match. But this is a topic for another day and another thread perhaps...

Trojan

I agree with you that people shouldn't be "looked down upon" for not knowing about it.

Where you may not agree with me is that I do think that people should be "looked down upon" for knowing about it and disregarding it anyway - to me, that is completely disrespectful.

For the record, I've been to 2 soccer matches in Lansdowne. The first was Croatia, a friendly about 2 years ago. Despite regularly viewing Premiership soccer on TV (as well as GAA, cricket, rugby league, NFL, athletics, snooker, golf and a myriad of other sports) this was the first live soccer match I was ever at (I've been to Croker ~25 times). I mention it so you have perspective here. The reason I play rugby and not other sports is that at 5'7, 14 stone I have some natural tendencies toward certain positions, and am limited in GAA and soccer - I was never good at either. Ok, back to the south terrace and Croatia...

It was a beautiful evening, and from the south terrace we had an amazing view of a sunset against clouds hovering over the gasworks. I mention it because it was so beautiful it made the cover of the Irish Times the following day. Oh, and the game was so terribly boring. I think it was a 1-1 draw in the end.

The 2nd soccer match I went to we played Russia on a nasty cold evening - this time I was on the north terrace. I remember a couple of things - the 40ish Russians waving their flags in the usual away spot off to my right, in the north end mid-level in the West Lower, and the fact that the Russian team were not the strongest of opposition.

The other really strong memory I have was of the Irish soccer fans, who I thought were welcomed worldwide and acknowledged as the best travelling supporters (Jacks Army), chanting at the Russians loudly, coherently and continuously "You're crap and you know it - go home! You're crap and you know it - go home!"

I never, ever want to see that happen in rugby - not in the name of professionalism, competiveness, sportsmanship, tradition, or any other excuse anyone can think of. It disgusted me that I was associated with them by virtue of my green jersey. To you this mightn't seem such a big deal, but the fact that we were so disrespectful to an international team that had travelled thousands of miles to play us in a friendly was sickening.

A close friend of mine is English and a mad Spurs fan and told me that I was completely overreacting - this kind of stuff happens all the time in football matches in England. I don't honestly believe it bears any relevance that this is acceptable in soccer - fine. Lets make sure it does not become acceptable in rugby.

At the beginning of this post I used the same phrase "looked down upon" as it makes it easier to follow, but I might choose a different turn of phrase if I gave it some more though. Just pointing this out in case someone picks up on the phrase.

Aside: I haven't gone to, and I'm not sure if ever will go to, another soccer game.

Like I said, maybe some people will think I'm overreacting, but that's my perspective.

Borzoi

Third_Echelon wrote:

Things are often different on a second read alright. Nice to see a decent moderator who can be 'human' for a change and admit an error...:)

It's well known that all mods are in fact super mutants, and meer human standars just don't apply

Third_Echelon wrote:

Rugby is a changing sport.

Basically its a lot more accessable to a wider amount of people. This means that people who have traditionally been 'other-sport' orientated have taken more of an interest in rugby in this country.
Traditions should be carried on as much as possible, but in an ever-changing age of the game, perhaps some new practices with regards to 'fan behaviour' are not such a bad thing.

Yes to change, yes to new people. But that doesn't mean you throw all that was good away. One of the things that attrated me to rugby years ago was the attitude of the fans - in the main they are supporters. That means they don't boo the other team every time they get the ball, they don't make 'monkey' calls etc, unlike some other sports. But this isn't a my sport is better than you sport arguement, that's nonsense, but it is why I like the games. I love the atmosphere at Lansdowne, the fact that both sets of supporters mingle before, after and during the game.

As for new people, I never walked into any place of work, culture, recreation, and expected to be able to carry on at will without deference to the existing people and their traditions and ways. That's pure bad manners - and it has no place anywhere, least of all in rugby

Phew, 2c over